2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)

[saden1]

There is no doubt that the whole ambassador killing was a major fckup. It is inexcusable but it is equally inexcusable for the people who let 911 happen and cut 300 million from embassy funding to puff their chests and tell us "we could do better."

[Alvin Walton]

Sorry but the left is just gonna have to "eat" the Benghazi screw up.
I heard soooo many lefties say that 9/11 happened on "Bush's watch".
Well guess whos watch Benghazi happened on?

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by Alvin Walton

Sorry but the left is just gonna have to "eat" the Benghazi screw up.
I heard soooo many lefties say that 9/11 happened on "Bush's watch".
Well guess whos watch Benghazi happened on?

Yeah, not sure you can compare 9/11 to Benghazi. And exactly what was the screw up? Was this a preventable attack? I haven's seen one shred of reporting that would suggest otherwise.

9/11 was an American tragedy. Benghazi was an American tragedy. I wish you guys would fukcing get that through your heads.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

Yeah, not sure you can compare 9/11 to Benghazi. And exactly what was the screw up? Was this a preventable attack? I haven's seen one shred of reporting that would suggest otherwise.

9/11 was an American tragedy. Benghazi was an American tragedy. I wish you guys would fukcing get that through your heads.

So your saying that the US is incapable of defending itself from terroist attacks under Obama? OK

[Giantone]

Originally Posted by firstdown

So your saying that the US is incapable of defending itself from terroist attacks under Obama? OK

No more than under Bush,OK.

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by saden1

There is no doubt that the whole ambassador killing was a major fckup. It is inexcusable but it is equally inexcusable for the people who let 911 happen and cut 300 million from embassy funding to puff their chests and tell us "we could do better."

Some more detail on the funding issues.

GOP cuts to embassy security draw scrutiny, jabs from Democrats - The Hill - covering Congress, Politics, Political Campaigns and Capitol Hill | TheHill.com

The way I see it, we should close a bunch of consulates....particularly in high risk zones. Too much risk, too much potential cost in lives and dollars.

[saden1]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

Some more detail on the funding issues.

GOP cuts to embassy security draw scrutiny, jabs from Democrats - The Hill - covering Congress, Politics, Political Campaigns and Capitol Hill | TheHill.com

The way I see it, we should close a bunch of consulates....particularly in high risk zones. Too much risk, too much potential cost in lives and dollars.

So the question then for me at least is if you are going to claim these cuts are necessary and worth doing then how can you turn around and say cutting defense spending is a bad idea now matter what and chastising democrats for pretty much doing the same thing with respect to defense spending?

It's hard for me to take people seriously let alone vote for them if they aren't consistent. Consistency is forbearance of wisdom and a necessary character trait in those who seek to lead and while team Obama hasn't been consistent in it's speech with respect to the attack it is fair to say that he himself has.

To me criticism of administration with respect to Bengazi comes down to "you shouldn't send an ambassador with light detail in dangerous territory" and "always utilize 'no comments' until our investigation is complete" not "the president is unfit to lead" and "he sympathizes with terrorists."

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by saden1

So the question then for me at least is if you are going to claim these cuts are necessary and worth doing then how can you turn around and say cutting defense spending is a bad idea now matter what and chastising democrats for pretty much doing the same thing with respect to defense spending?

I agree defense cuts are needed, but not the current level of cuts ($ 1T total - $ 500M previous + $ 500M sequestration). Jobs need to be preserved as much as possible and the "scapel" approach rather than the Obama "meat ax".

To me criticism of administration with respect to Bengazi comes down to "you shouldn't send an ambassador with light detail in dangerous territory" and "always utilize 'no comments' until our investigation is complete" not "the president is unfit to lead" and "he sympathizes with terrorists."

Agree on bolded.....but since I've got $$$ on the line I'll continue with the second set of points :cool-smil

[saden1]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

I agree defense cuts are needed, but not the current level of cuts ($ 1T total - $ 500M previous + $ 500M sequestration). Jobs need to be preserved as much as possible and the "scapel" approach rather than the Obama "meat ax".

Agree on bolded.....but since I've got $$$ on the line I'll continue with the second set of points :cool-smil

The moment you bet with me is the moment you lost. There is no recovering from your deficit without a saintly miracle.

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by saden1

The moment you bet with me is the moment you lost. There is no recovering from your deficit without a saintly miracle.

The Pope did just cannonize 7 new Saints.

[saden1]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

The Pope did just cannonize 7 new Saints.

Good think you're fielding a cult.

[Daseal]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

Some more detail on the funding issues.

GOP cuts to embassy security draw scrutiny, jabs from Democrats - The Hill - covering Congress, Politics, Political Campaigns and Capitol Hill | TheHill.com

The way I see it, we should close a bunch of consulates....particularly in high risk zones. Too much risk, too much potential cost in lives and dollars.

I couldn't disagree with you more. People going into the Foreign Service are aware of the risks. They know that they will often be in harms way because of where they are in the world. It's important that the United States have a presence in those areas for multiple reasons.
1. To be diplomats -- reach out to the community, engage everyone and learn about their culture and customs. It helps to build bridges.
2. To be available to solve issues for US citizens. That embassy is a little piece of America in every country and the diplomats are, for all intents and purposes, the president of the United States in those countries.
3. Intelligence. Where do you think we get intelligence. It's not on the streets of Georgetown. It's in these dangerous areas. This gives all of our communities a safe harbor in every country. Allowing for secure transmissions and safety.

What do you think Embassyies do, SS? Just grant Visa's? That's just how they create revenue -- it is a tiny portion of what the US Dept. of State actually does.

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by Daseal

I couldn't disagree with you more. People going into the Foreign Service are aware of the risks. They know that they will often be in harms way because of where they are in the world. It's important that the United States have a presence in those areas for multiple reasons.
1. To be diplomats -- reach out to the community, engage everyone and learn about their culture and customs. It helps to build bridges.
2. To be available to solve issues for US citizens. That embassy is a little piece of America in every country and the diplomats are, for all intents and purposes, the president of the United States in those countries.
3. Intelligence. Where do you think we get intelligence. It's not on the streets of Georgetown. It's in these dangerous areas. This gives all of our communities a safe harbor in every country. Allowing for secure transmissions and safety.

What do you think Embassyies do, SS? Just grant Visa's? That's just how they create revenue -- it is a tiny portion of what the US Dept. of State actually does.

I know exactly what embassies do, I worked for NSA.

Unless I would send my son into a situation, I'm not sending someone else's son/daughter there. Countries with civil wars and terrorist training grounds are not places where "bridges" are built. U.S. citizens should be made aware of countries where we have no consulate and advised to travel at their own risk (that stuff is already out there on DoS's site).

There was no USMC detatchment at Benghazi. Had there been a USMC presence, doubtful this would've happened. Sorry, if I can't bring adequate US security assets in to protect my personnel, then I'm not setting up shop.

I agree the consulate is U.S. soil. I also agree there should've been some sort of counter-strike on any terrorist organizations/camps even remotely affiliated with this within days of the attack. Nothing invites more violence from evil people than perceived weakness.