Should Mike Shanahan be fired?

[The Goat]

Originally Posted by Hog1

Sooo, to extrapolate, you have no actual practical experience in any NFL or sports related field? No expertise to be relied on. Nothing that would lend credence or validity to your statements.
Your a...fan....like so many others...HTTR

I guess if you want to ignore the rest of the league it's your choice? Not sure why you'd do that, but maybe you can enlighten me?

[Hog1]

No, I think all the important facts have already been revealed.....

[The Goat]

^^ No idea what that's supposed to mean...neither do you, I suspect lol. Any honest person can speak to how quickly other coaches/regimes have turned a losing team into a winner. The bigger point, in fact the real issue, is that Mike's regime hasn't succeeded because of its own failures and nothing to do with what happened four, or five, or eight years ago. When you count up the failed FA signings etc of this regime it's right there with the three preceeding years.

[Hog1]

........Nice, Skinzman

[punch it in]

Originally Posted by Skinzman

Out of 8 games, there has only been one we werent in. That didnt happen all that much the last few years.

Im still a believer that most teams went ultra conservative with us the last few years (or like the Giants last year, just assumed the win was guaranteed as long as they showed up and gave a half-ass effort). Most teams knew that as long as they werent giving up pick 6's to our defense, they would most likely win. We had no offense, so there was no reason to put in game plans to try and score 30 points against us and risk our defense scoring points. Its not that teams didnt want to score like crazy on us, they just knew that there was no reason to risk a play when you could just punt knowing that the ball would come back with no points scored by the Skins. Get a TD or two, then laugh as Rex/Beck/McNabb/Cambell ect. tried to get us back into the game.

I think we are getting teams best efforts and best game plans this year, and are staying right with them even with the terrible defense that we have.

Might be the case during a certain game that a team took us for granted but no way every game. Thats insanity. Its the nfl. No team took a seven point lead over us and shut down shop. Bottom line is our offense is better and our defense is worse. Now we lose 35-32 instead of 17-10. Its that simple. Teams may fear rg-3 but they know they are going to put up huge points. So the flipside of your argument would be that teams know they can let us score and it doesnt matter because they are going to score even quicker. But i think thats just as ridiculous. Unless your an albert haynesworth type player you are out there to play every down. No way coaches are telling players last year - "hey guys - take it easy dont get hurt this team cant score. ". Thats just silly.


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[Skinzman]

Originally Posted by punch it in

Might be the case during a certain game that a team took us for granted but no way every game. Thats insanity. Its the nfl. No team took a seven point lead over us and shut down shop. Bottom line is our offense is better and our defense is worse. Now we lose 35-32 instead of 17-10. Its that simple. Teams may fear rg-3 but they know they are going to put up huge points. So the flipside of your argument would be that teams know they can let us score and it doesnt matter because they are going to score even quicker. But i think thats just as ridiculous. Unless your an albert haynesworth type player you are out there to play every down. No way coaches are telling players last year - "hey guys - take it easy dont get hurt this team cant score. ". Thats just silly.


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Or you could discuss what I was talking about. Coaches want to win, its less about winning by 50 than it is to win a game, regardless of the score. The game plans we saw the last few years have been more conservative. Because a game plan to score 30 or 40 was not needed. As well as play calling. OC's were not dialing up the plays that they are this year. If first down lost yardage, some OC's ran out the series and punted instead of being more risky. It has nothing to so with telling the players to let off, and has to do with play calling, realizing that a punt was a lot better than risking an int. while going for a TD.

Teams accepted that their game plans and play calling would result in more punts and less points. They just didnt care, because they didnt need to score every series to get the win, and that win is all they care about.

[ethat001]

Dude. NCSkins, that was a beat down. Nice post.

Look, I think we need to be patient & give Shanny time. He just got a real QB and it's only ~7 games into it.

Regardless, the point is well taken, despite the NCskins beatdown. I think Goat is trying to say that we've seen three years with the same record, which is a lot of losing. I get that, and I feel you. I just think patience is a virtue. Shanny hasn't made all the right decisions, but on the decisions that count, he's been right a lot. RG3, Morris, Kerrigan, Bowen, CArriker, TWilliams, Riley, etc. Lots of misses with secondary and O-line, but it's a work in progress.

I'd say although Shanny's been here for 3 years, I think his clock should start now with his new QB, and we give him 1-2 years. We're on the front page of the sports news on most weeks, and our QB is on every other commercial. Our offense is among the top in the league and it's actually exciting to watch games (really tired of the 10-7 battles of the past). I think if we get a couple of breaks on defense with good draft/FA/avoiding injuries, we have a playoff team in this NFL world of parity.

I think we're making progress.

[Hog1]

Originally Posted by ethat001

Dude. NCSkins, that was a beat down. Nice post.

Look, I think we need to be patient & give Shanny time. He just got a real QB and it's only ~7 games into it.

Regardless, the point is well taken, despite the NCskins beatdown. I think Goat is trying to say that we've seen three years with the same record, which is a lot of losing. I get that, and I feel you. I just think patience is a virtue. Shanny hasn't made all the right decisions, but on the decisions that count, he's been right a lot. RG3, Morris, Kerrigan, Bowen, CArriker, TWilliams, Riley, etc. Lots of misses with secondary and O-line, but it's a work in progress.

I'd say although Shanny's been here for 3 years, I think his clock should start now with his new QB, and we give him 1-2 years. We're on the front page of the sports news on most weeks, and our QB is on every other commercial. Our offense is among the top in the league and it's actually exciting to watch games (really tired of the 10-7 battles of the past). I think if we get a couple of breaks on defense with good draft/FA/avoiding injuries, we have a playoff team in this NFL world of parity.

I think we're making progress.

Actually, he's 2.5 yrs into a 5 year deal. In his opening news conf as the Skins HC....He said it would take 5 years to get the Skins Org and team around.

[punch it in]

Originally Posted by Skinzman

Or you could discuss what I was talking about. Coaches want to win, its less about winning by 50 than it is to win a game, regardless of the score. The game plans we saw the last few years have been more conservative. Because a game plan to score 30 or 40 was not needed. As well as play calling. OC's were not dialing up the plays that they are this year. If first down lost yardage, some OC's ran out the series and punted instead of being more risky. It has nothing to so with telling the players to let off, and has to do with play calling, realizing that a punt was a lot better than risking an int. while going for a TD.

Teams accepted that their game plans and play calling would result in more punts and less points. They just didnt care, because they didnt need to score every series to get the win, and that win is all they care about.

I know exactly what u are talking about. Teams dont gameplan to score one or two touchdowns. Ever. Never.
Teams are throwing the ball on us and not running cus our secondary sucks not cus rg-3 is scoring alot.


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[The Goat]

Originally Posted by punch it in

I know exactly what u are talking about. Teams dont gameplan to score one or two touchdowns. Ever. Never.
Teams are throwing the ball on us and not running cus our secondary sucks not cus rg-3 is scoring alot.


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Ahhhhhhh snap!!!

[Skinzman]

Originally Posted by punch it in

I know exactly what u are talking about. Teams dont gameplan to score one or two touchdowns. Ever. Never.
Teams are throwing the ball on us and not running cus our secondary sucks not cus rg-3 is scoring alot.


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Our secondary has ALWAYS sucked...

Hall and Wilson were our corners last year. Our safeties were Landry and Atogwe. Landry was often injured so in reality, our safeties were Atogwe and Doughty. Are you honestly saying that D Hall and Wilson were probowl corners last year? That Atogwe and Doughty were world beaters at safety? We have always had a terrible secondary, yet we see teams passing twice as often this year than in the past few years. Why? Conservative game plans and play calling from the past few years.

Im not exactly sure what you see different in our defense this year. We switched two crappy safeties out with two other crappy safeties. Other than injuries, Its the same players and the same coaching.

[punch it in]

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

I think you have selective or fuzzy memory.


Jim Schwartz -Lions:

1st year - 2-14 (drafted stafford with #1)
2nd year- 6-10 (drafted Suh with #2)
3rd year- 10-6
4th year - 3-4

This your idea of a turnaround? Mike hasn't ever been in the #1 or #2 slot drafting, nor has he had one of the best players in the NFL in Calvin Johnson, who Schwartz had. Mike's first 2 years were a lot better than Jim Schwartz who you mysteriously are crediting with a "turn around". Are you blind?



Jim Harbaugh - 49ers

1st year -13-3
2nd year 6-2

Lets look at the talent Jim inherited.

NaVorro Bowman
Patrick Willis (1st rounder)
Frank Gore
Joe Staley (1st rounder)
Anthony Davis (1st rounder)
Andy Lee
Vernon Davis (1st rounder)
Justin Smith
Michael Crabtree (1st rounder)

Dude, Jim had a all-pro type of talent he inherited. He didn't turn shit around. Mike Singletary simply couldn't coach or at least get his players to respond. Dude had a solid OL to boot, and a pro-bowl running back to go along with a incredible defense. If Mike inherited this type of talent and our record was anything like it is now, I would be right along with you hating.


Marvin Lewis- Bengals

Are you ****ing shitting me man? Marvin Lewis is sporting a .480 win percentage in Cincinnati since 2003

1st year - 8-8
2nd year 8-8
3rd year - 11-5 (lost wild card game)
4th year -8-8
5th year - 7-9
6th year - 4-11
7th year - 10-6 (lost wild card game)
8th year- 4-12
9th year- 9-7 (lost wild card game)
10th year- 3-4

Are you kidding me? Where is the "turn around"? They've been the playoffs only 3 times in that span and lost the wild card game each time? Is this the turn around you dream of?


Joe Gibbs 2.0 - Redskins

1st year - 6-10 (they were 9-7 year before)
2nd year 10-6 (lost divisional playoff game)
3rd year- 5-11
4th year - 9-7 (lost wild card game)

NOT a turn around. I'm not even going to bother researching all the stupid ass trades Gibbs/Cerrato did during this time all to "WIN NOW".....and they really couldn't even do that. All those draft picks and contracts they handed out for vets and FA and the best they could manage was a 10-6? Really?



C'mon man!!!

The niners sucked before harbaugh got there. Give the guy credit man. Every other team was in the playoffs their third year. Making the playoffs is great There seems to be this illusion that shanny isnt looking for a " meaningless playoff run". Like these other examples. Shanny is building a dynasty. The lions were officially the worst team in the history of football and they went to the playoffs in his third year! And thats because he had calvin johnson? Really? They all went from very bad teams to respectable or damn good within three years. Shannys hasnt. Bottom line. No excuses. Face the facts.

Edit : who cares if crabtree was a first rounder. Dude sucks.
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[NC_Skins]

Originally Posted by punch it in

The niners sucked before harbaugh got there. Give the guy credit man. Every other team was in the playoffs their third year. Making the playoffs is great There seems to be this illusion that shanny isnt looking for a " meaningless playoff run". Like these other examples. Shanny is building a dynasty. The lions were officially the worst team in the history of football and they went to the playoffs in his third year! And thats because he had calvin johnson? Really? They all went from very bad teams to respectable or damn good within three years. Shannys hasnt. Bottom line. No excuses. Face the facts.

Edit : who cares if crabtree was a first rounder. Dude sucks.
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The 49ers sucked, their talent did not. I listed all the talent on that team. Mike Singletary obviously was a poor coach. It still wasn't a "turn around" with a team with bottom of the barrel talent. We had Orakpo and old ass London Fletcher. You going to compare that with the list I put up the 49ers had?

No, the Lions haven't turned shit around man. Who's to say that 10-6 record last year was a fluke. They are sucking so far this year. Fact is, that Mike had a better record his first 2 years than did Schwartz, YET you are up here patting that guy on the back?

Schwartz was 8-24 his first two years. Mike was 11-21. Also, you talk about Detroit being the worst, did you not forget THEY BEAT US!!! Yeah, that little fun fact escaped your alternate reality didn't it.

This is mind boggling. It really is.

[Hog1]

Originally Posted by nc_skins

the 49ers sucked, their talent did not. I listed all the talent on that team. Mike singletary obviously was a poor coach. It still wasn't a "turn around" with a team with bottom of the barrel talent. We had orakpo and old ass london fletcher. You going to compare that with the list i put up the 49ers had?

No, the lions haven't turned shit around man. Who's to say that 10-6 record last year was a fluke. They are sucking so far this year. Fact is, that mike had a better record his first 2 years than did schwartz, yet you are up here patting that guy on the back?

Schwartz was 8-24 his first two years. Mike was 11-21. Also, you talk about detroit being the worst, did you not forget they beat us!!! Yeah, that little fun fact escaped your alternate reality didn't it.

this is mind boggling. It really is.

lol.........

[punch it in]

Edit