Should Mike Shanahan be fired?

[Mechanix544]

Originally Posted by DynamiteRave

This is the other part of my problem. He's only been here 3 years and with a franchise that is/was in rebuilding mode. The last coach that coached here for over 3 years was NORV TURNER and they fired him in 2000. All other coaches have been here for 3 years or less.

To me that's a glaring consistency problem.

Except Zorn. He needed to go.

You know whats funny about that whole thing?

Jim Zorn (and I am in no way saying he should have ever been a HC) had, with a MUCH MUCH crappier team, a better winning percentage than Mike Shanahan did with the Redskins. AND he had Mr. Cerrato to contend with as well. Maybe its time people take a few seconds to stop and smell the Folgers, and realize maybe Allen and Shanahan just might not be the saviors all of us envisioned. I understand the longing for consistency, but if you cannot at least get close to the playoffs with an NFL caliber squad in the past 7 years of head coaching, you are just not that good of a coach. No matter if you won 2 super bowls with arguably the top quarterback of all time. You're just not.

[DynamiteRave]

Originally Posted by Mechanix544

You know whats funny about that whole thing?

Jim Zorn (and I am in no way saying he should have ever been a HC) had, with a MUCH MUCH crappier team, a better winning percentage than Mike Shanahan did with the Redskins. AND he had Mr. Cerrato to contend with as well. Maybe its time people take a few seconds to stop and smell the Folgers, and realize maybe Allen and Shanahan just might not be the saviors all of us envisioned. I understand the longing for consistency, but if you cannot at least get close to the playoffs with an NFL caliber squad in the past 7 years of head coaching, you are just not that good of a coach. No matter if you won 2 super bowls with arguably the top quarterback of all time. You're just not.

The team was worse? They were 8-8 and had 4 Pro Bowl players on that team. (2008) Portis rushed for almost 1500 yards. Campbell had 3000+ yards and more TDs than INTs.

And you can't possibly be saying they were better in 2009 because we finished 4-12.

I don't think we're THAT bad.

[Mechanix544]

Originally Posted by DynamiteRave

The team was worse? They were 8-8 and had 4 Pro Bowl players on that team. (2008) Portis rushed for almost 1500 yards. Campbell had 3000+ yards and more TDs than INTs.

And you can't possibly be saying they were better in 2009 because we finished 4-12.

I don't think we're THAT bad.

Ok, so circular logic begs me to ask the question that if we weren't all that bad, why in the hell did it need rebuilding so horribly. Did we fall off so much from 2008 to 2009? I think the VAST majority of people on this board have been caught saying that the team Shanahan took over in 2009 was quite possibly the most atrocious squad ever to don the B&G. The year prior to Shanahan, our defense was ranked top 10, and while not good, we still churned out 22nd in the league in offense. The point is that he hasn't done much with 3 years here to instill any sort of confidence. RG3, 110 out of 100 people could hit on that pick. Shanahan is coaching here based SOLELY on previous accolades (from the 97 -98 seasons). And it shows.

[The Goat]

Originally Posted by Mechanix544

Ok, so circular logic begs me to ask the question that if we weren't all that bad, why in the hell did it need rebuilding so horribly. Did we fall off so much from 2008 to 2009? I think the VAST majority of people on this board have been caught saying that the team Shanahan took over in 2009 was quite possibly the most atrocious squad ever to don the B&G. The year prior to Shanahan, our defense was ranked top 10, and while not good, we still churned out 22nd in the league in offense. The point is that he hasn't done much with 3 years here to instill any sort of confidence. RG3, 110 out of 100 people could hit on that pick. Shanahan is coaching here based SOLELY on previous accolades (from the 97 -98 seasons). And it shows.

I'm shocked...that kind of clear logic didn't crash the site

[DynamiteRave]

Originally Posted by Mechanix544

Ok, so circular logic begs me to ask the question that if we weren't all that bad, why in the hell did it need rebuilding so horribly. Did we fall off so much from 2008 to 2009? I think the VAST majority of people on this board have been caught saying that the team Shanahan took over in 2009 was quite possibly the most atrocious squad ever to don the B&G. The year prior to Shanahan, our defense was ranked top 10, and while not good, we still churned out 22nd in the league in offense. The point is that he hasn't done much with 3 years here to instill any sort of confidence. RG3, 110 out of 100 people could hit on that pick. Shanahan is coaching here based SOLELY on previous accolades (from the 97 -98 seasons). And it shows.

We did fall off in 2009, ending far below .500.

Here comes 2010.

2010 we had bum McNabb
Then we had INT crazy Rexy.
And the Beck experiment.

So we basically didn't have a QB.

Then we had injured plague Portis who was on the downward trek of his career and didn't even play a full season in 2009 or 2010.
Then Larry Johnson who did squat.
Ryan Torain who was the shining spot that year.

We had Moss, our one constant.
Devin Thomas - Bum
Joey Galloway - Was way too old
Roydell Williams - Who??
Armstrong and Banks. Alright. They're not bad.

Our line wasn't horrible or too different from how it is now, except now we don't have 2 liabilities, aka Heyer and Rabach.

Our defense honestly, isn't very different from 2010, there are some major names missing from our current team (Rogers, Landry, HAYNESWORTH).

Which leads me to believe that there is a defensive coaching issue, rather than a head coach issue.

Our offense blew in 2010, we were 6-10, ranked 25th on offense.
Blew in 2011, 5-11, ranked 26th on offense.
Now in 2012, we're currently 3-5 but 5th in offense.

They've done nothing but get better. We added skill, youth and depth. Improvement!

In regards to total defense, yards per game:
2009 we were ranked 10
2010 - 31st
2011 - 13th

And we all know how this year has been.

People are so quick to throw the baby out with the bathwater, if there's a problem here, it's Haslett, not Shanahan. We are also injury plagued, with little defensive depth.

I'm not a Shanahan apologist by any means, but I don't think he's the real glaring problem here.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by DynamiteRave

We did fall off in 2009, ending far below .500.

Here comes 2010.

2010 we had bum McNabb
Then we had INT crazy Rexy.
And the Beck experiment.

So we basically didn't have a QB.

Then we had injured plague Portis who was on the downward trek of his career and didn't even play a full season in 2009 or 2010.
Then Larry Johnson who did squat.
Ryan Torain who was the shining spot that year.

We had Moss, our one constant.
Devin Thomas - Bum
Joey Galloway - Was way too old
Roydell Williams - Who??
Armstrong and Banks. Alright. They're not bad.

Our line wasn't horrible or too different from how it is now, except now we don't have 2 liabilities, aka Heyer and Rabach.

Our defense honestly, isn't very different from 2010, there are some major names missing from our current team (Rogers, Landry, HAYNESWORTH).

Which leads me to believe that there is a defensive coaching issue, rather than a head coach issue.

Our offense blew in 2010, we were 6-10, ranked 25th on offense.
Blew in 2011, 5-11, ranked 26th on offense.
Now in 2012, we're currently 3-5 but 5th in offense.

They've done nothing but get better. We added skill, youth and depth. Improvement!

In regards to total defense, yards per game:
2009 we were ranked 10
2010 - 31st
2011 - 13th

And we all know how this year has been.

People are so quick to throw the baby out with the bathwater, if there's a problem here, it's Haslett, not Shanahan. We are also injury plagued, with little defensive depth.

I'm not a Shanahan apologist by any means, but I don't think he's the real glaring problem here.

How is letting Shanahan pick the next defensive coordinator any different than letting Bruce Allen pick the next head coach, which people are terrified of?

[DynamiteRave]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

How is letting Shanahan pick the next defensive coordinator any different than letting Bruce Allen pick the next head coach, which people are terrified of?

New head coach usually means there are more changes underway. I imagine if Mike goes, Kyle goes, which means a new offensive scheme to learn. I doubt Haslett sees another year here after this debacle, so we may or may not be switching back to 4-3 which if we did, means a new defensive scheme to learn and 3-4 with the Skins is all some of these guys know.

Considering how awful the defense has been I see defensive overhaul in the future along with depth signings.

So basically we're back in complete rebuilding mode. Again.

I'd rather them fire Haslett, fill in the gaps on defense with the draft and free agency, see how the Shanahan's fair next year, then take another look at him coaching here.

[Mechanix544]

Originally Posted by DynamiteRave

We did fall off in 2009, ending far below .500.

Here comes 2010.

2010 we had bum McNabb
Then we had INT crazy Rexy.
And the Beck experiment.

So we basically didn't have a QB.

Then we had injured plague Portis who was on the downward trek of his career and didn't even play a full season in 2009 or 2010.
Then Larry Johnson who did squat.
Ryan Torain who was the shining spot that year.

We had Moss, our one constant.
Devin Thomas - Bum
Joey Galloway - Was way too old
Roydell Williams - Who??
Armstrong and Banks. Alright. They're not bad.

Our line wasn't horrible or too different from how it is now, except now we don't have 2 liabilities, aka Heyer and Rabach.

Our defense honestly, isn't very different from 2010, there are some major names missing from our current team (Rogers, Landry, HAYNESWORTH).

Which leads me to believe that there is a defensive coaching issue, rather than a head coach issue.

Our offense blew in 2010, we were 6-10, ranked 25th on offense.
Blew in 2011, 5-11, ranked 26th on offense.
Now in 2012, we're currently 3-5 but 5th in offense.

They've done nothing but get better. We added skill, youth and depth. Improvement!

In regards to total defense, yards per game:
2009 we were ranked 10
2010 - 31st
2011 - 13th

And we all know how this year has been.

People are so quick to throw the baby out with the bathwater, if there's a problem here, it's Haslett, not Shanahan. We are also injury plagued, with little defensive depth.

I'm not a Shanahan apologist by any means, but I don't think he's the real glaring problem here.

WOW. Just WOW. So, for his first two seasons here, both with horrid records and abysmal offensive stats that look quite similar, yet in year three, he jumps from 26th in the league to 3rd??????

And that is Shanahans doing? THat is Pierre Garcon, Josh Morgan and Polumbus' doing? No, sorry, that is RG3's doing. WE AREN'T EVEN RUNNING A MIKE SHANAHAN OFFENSE!!!!!! Its all RG3. Any coach in the league worth on hardened turd would statistically JUMP having that weapon. The other side of it is, only a very very special coach/coaching staff would take a ridiculous gem of a weapon like that, and still be 3-5 in the rankings, with a bleak outlook. That coach/coaching staff is ours.

Any success this year can be directly attributed to RG3. He has excelled in spite of Shanahans team building exercise that will still take another 3 years. In that span of time, the 1 win Colts are second in their division, and have beaten the Packers and the suprisingly strong Vikings, with luck on pace to throw for well over 4000 yards. With Reggie Wayne. AND THAT'S it for receivers in Indy. Personnel decisions other than the really easy to hit ones, and ALFMO have mostly been very very poor. That is Mike Shanahans fault, noone elses.

[DynamiteRave]

Originally Posted by Mechanix544

WOW. Just WOW. So, for his first two seasons here, both with horrid records and abysmal offensive stats that look quite similar, yet in year three, he jumps from 26th in the league to 3rd??????

And that is Shanahans doing? THat is Pierre Garcon, Josh Morgan and Polumbus' doing? No, sorry, that is RG3's doing. WE AREN'T EVEN RUNNING A MIKE SHANAHAN OFFENSE!!!!!! Its all RG3. Any coach in the league worth on hardened turd would statistically JUMP having that weapon. The other side of it is, only a very very special coach/coaching staff would take a ridiculous gem of a weapon like that, and still be 3-5 in the rankings, with a bleak outlook. That coach/coaching staff is ours.

Any success this year can be directly attributed to RG3. He has excelled in spite of Shanahans team building exercise that will still take another 3 years. In that span of time, the 1 win Colts are second in their division, and have beaten the Packers and the suprisingly strong Vikings, with luck on pace to throw for well over 4000 yards. With Reggie Wayne. AND THAT'S it for receivers in Indy. Personnel decisions other than the really easy to hit ones, and ALFMO have mostly been very very poor. That is Mike Shanahans fault, noone elses.

You build around the QB, and I think Shanahan and Allen are trying to do that. Of course we aren't using a Shanahan offense because that's not RG3's thing. You're complaining because Shanahan decided to play to RG3's strengths rather than implementing his own strategy in spite of him?

We add Morris, Trent Williams, Perry Riley, Carriker, Kerrigan, Young, and RG3 of course.

FA wise we picked up - Garcon, Morgan, Paulsen (who's proved kinda valuable due to injury)

And personnel decisions have been horrible? On the defensive side? Perhaps. But to sit there and say they haven't tried to help RG3 out is beyond obtuse.

Mmmkay.