Should Mike Shanahan be fired?

[HTTR247]

Originally Posted by #56fanatic

Shanny should NOT be fired. Lets throw out the 1st year. In my opinion that was a year to see if we could compete with the roster we had, and obviously that didn't happen.

You can't just toss out a season like it never existed. Last week in the Monday "Evaluation part deux" presser, Shanny said he knew when he took the job the team was old and needed to get younger which they started in year 1. That comment was a head scratcher because he traded and signed older players like Galloway,Mcnabb, Johnson,Parker ,and (insert name). Actions said he thought he could win AND rebuild simultaneously.

I believe it takes 3 years to turn a roster over from free agents to draft picks in order to show progress. Our roster was over aged, and over paid. Now we have young players at key positions that can help us for years to come.

We are in year 3 and do have some nice young talent but not nearly enough.

I dont think Haslett should be fired either. They are playing without 4/5 starters, two in the safety spot. THat is huge. I am surprised we didn't/haven't taken a look at Route to be honest.

I'm usually not a fan of letting coaches go mid season but Haslett needs to go asap. This team had Haz/player issues carryover from 2011 into 2012 and a player or two are not even on speaking terms with the coach. Some veterans have become increasing frustrated with how he leads the defense. I spoke to a few veterans who have taken issue with the most recent Haslett quote...

"I come to work, I work hard, I do the best I can with what we got and try to put these guys in position to win games and be successful on defense,” “That’s all really I can do.”

Honest or not some of the guys have taken it as Haz blaming them and taking no accountability in the issues. Players have routinely told the media not to blame the scheme or the coach it was on the players to make plays. Guys that have issues with Haslett still went to bat for him with a mic in their face. Defensive lockeroom is fractured and now on gameday you are starting to see no intensity, no fire, no communication, and so on.. Those are all signs that you are losing the unit and getting ready to be fired.

But Shanny is moving this team in the right direction and needs to be given the time to make it work.

I want to see "team going in right direction" but I don't see it at all. I see a team regressing in a year they are suppose to be progressing as a team. I see coaches getting fined for chassing & cussing out refs, Players cussing out refs, One of the most penalized teams in the league. Then tons of dropped balls, can't run the base Shanahan offense because of the LG & RTS play, coaches messing up in the media.

On defense I see the most passive 3-4 unit I think I have ever seen in the NFL. Drives me nuts that we have all 4-3 coaches, coaching a 3-4 defense filled with 4-3 personnel, with a Defensive coordinator that never wanted to run the 3-4 here.

And most of that is not even the tip of the ice berg.

Im not sure where I stand on Mike Shanahan yet.. Everything added up does not paint a picture of future success under his guidance unless changes are made.

Hasletts ticket for departure will come anytime after Thanksgiving. Kyle is not guaranteed to stay with the organization either. You could be looking at a new DC & OC entering year 4/5 and that to me is a mess. Year 4 is when you usually have to decide if you are going to extend a coach or enter the infamous last year of the contract with no extension aka " lame duck coach" .

So how would Shanahan improve the team with -18 million, little draft picks, new DC, new OC, possible new DL coach , and a lot of needs??

You are almost at the point that it might be better to cut bait from Mike and start the process again around RG3. I cant believe I said it but its how I feel. Shanny is not going to coach forever and he likely wont be here past 5 IF he makes it that long. so what are you losing?

Some will say you are losing a year of RG3s development..True but if Mike sucks it up in 2013 and is gone then you have wasted 2 years. The problem will just compound.

Maybe I would have a different view if I haven't heard from some folks at the park that they are not sold on Shanahan.. and these were not players.

Sorry fro the rant.. HTTR

[NC_Skins]

Originally Posted by HTTR247

Shanny said he knew when he took the job the team was old and needed to get younger which they started in year 1. That comment was a head scratcher because he traded and signed older players like Galloway,Mcnabb, Johnson,Parker ,and (insert name). Actions said he thought he could win AND rebuild simultaneously.

I concur. I was against the McNabb trade and on the fence with the Brown trade. It was pretty foolish. I knew McNabb was overrated and what talent he did have was gone. If you take back those picks we gave up, we could potentially have 3 starters (or depth) out of it.

I do give Mike a pass on the Parker/Johnson/Galloway signing though. Remember, it was the uncapped year with teams using tenders on all their restricted FAs so we had nothing to really work with.

Originally Posted by HTTR247

I'm usually not a fan of letting coaches go mid season but Haslett needs to go asap. This team had Haz/player issues carryover from 2011 into 2012 and a player or two are not even on speaking terms with the coach.

At first I was for waiting till the end of the season, but after it was apparent the defensive squad had stopped responding to this man, I wanted him out during this bye week. The team that played against Atlanta isn't the same team that played against the Steelers and Panthers. It was very apparent. I still think Mike's biggest downfall could very well be his selection of a DC to run this defense. I realize Jim was option #2, but surely there were other people more qualified than Jim. He had a year to figure this out.

Originally Posted by HTTR247

I see a team regressing in a year they are suppose to be progressing as a team. I see coaches getting fined for chassing & cussing out refs, Players cussing out refs, One of the most penalized teams in the league. Then tons of dropped balls, can't run the base Shanahan offense because of the LG & RTS play, coaches messing up in the media.

Ruhskin and a couple others talked about the penalties the other week and mentioned how it's a clear sign of a undisciplined team or lack of leadership. This falls on Mike. Plain and simple. Mike should have suspended Kyle and Dhall for their parts. After the Morgan bit, he should have dropped the hammer that anymore would result in sitting for a game. He didn't and it's continued.

Originally Posted by HTTR247

Im not sure where I stand on Mike Shanahan yet.. Everything added up does not paint a picture of future success under his guidance unless changes are made.

I think Mike's ego is getting in the way of some of this. Instead of just correcting the mistake like he did with McNabb, he's going to let this defense thing fester until it's too late.

I personally think he will not succeed here, but he will have a good base built for the next guy to come and get all the credit for turning around. I hope I'm wrong.

Originally Posted by HTTR247

So how would Shanahan improve the team with -18 million, little draft picks, new DC, new OC, possible new DL coach , and a lot of needs??

He'll definitely be swimming uphill. Said the other day that I'm not even sure why he took this job knowing it was in the shape it was. Vinny's stench is still haunting this team via capgate. Mike is basically going to have to hit homeruns on all the draft picks this upcoming off-season. He also didn't do himself any favors with the poor FA moves/trades. (McNabb/Brown/Jackson/Meriweather/Morgan)

Originally Posted by HTTR247

Sorry fro the rant.. HTTR

By all means, rant.

[punch it in]

Originally Posted by HTTR247

You can't just toss out a season like it never existed. Last week in the Monday "Evaluation part deux" presser, Shanny said he knew when he took the job the team was old and needed to get younger which they started in year 1. That comment was a head scratcher because he traded and signed older players like Galloway,Mcnabb, Johnson,Parker ,and (insert name). Actions said he thought he could win AND rebuild simultaneously.




We are in year 3 and do have some nice young talent but not nearly enough.



I'm usually not a fan of letting coaches go mid season but Haslett needs to go asap. This team had Haz/player issues carryover from 2011 into 2012 and a player or two are not even on speaking terms with the coach. Some veterans have become increasing frustrated with how he leads the defense. I spoke to a few veterans who have taken issue with the most recent Haslett quote...

"I come to work, I work hard, I do the best I can with what we got and try to put these guys in position to win games and be successful on defense,” “That’s all really I can do.”

Honest or not some of the guys have taken it as Haz blaming them and taking no accountability in the issues. Players have routinely told the media not to blame the scheme or the coach it was on the players to make plays. Guys that have issues with Haslett still went to bat for him with a mic in their face. Defensive lockeroom is fractured and now on gameday you are starting to see no intensity, no fire, no communication, and so on.. Those are all signs that you are losing the unit and getting ready to be fired.




I want to see "team going in right direction" but I don't see it at all. I see a team regressing in a year they are suppose to be progressing as a team. I see coaches getting fined for chassing & cussing out refs, Players cussing out refs, One of the most penalized teams in the league. Then tons of dropped balls, can't run the base Shanahan offense because of the LG & RTS play, coaches messing up in the media.

On defense I see the most passive 3-4 unit I think I have ever seen in the NFL. Drives me nuts that we have all 4-3 coaches, coaching a 3-4 defense filled with 4-3 personnel, with a Defensive coordinator that never wanted to run the 3-4 here.

And most of that is not even the tip of the ice berg.

Im not sure where I stand on Mike Shanahan yet.. Everything added up does not paint a picture of future success under his guidance unless changes are made.

Hasletts ticket for departure will come anytime after Thanksgiving. Kyle is not guaranteed to stay with the organization either. You could be looking at a new DC & OC entering year 4/5 and that to me is a mess. Year 4 is when you usually have to decide if you are going to extend a coach or enter the infamous last year of the contract with no extension aka " lame duck coach" .

So how would Shanahan improve the team with -18 million, little draft picks, new DC, new OC, possible new DL coach , and a lot of needs??

You are almost at the point that it might be better to cut bait from Mike and start the process again around RG3. I cant believe I said it but its how I feel. Shanny is not going to coach forever and he likely wont be here past 5 IF he makes it that long. so what are you losing?

Some will say you are losing a year of RG3s development..True but if Mike sucks it up in 2013 and is gone then you have wasted 2 years. The problem will just compound.

Maybe I would have a different view if I haven't heard from some folks at the park that they are not sold on Shanahan.. and these were not players.

Sorry fro the rant.. HTTR

Me, Gtripp, goat and Mechanix have uttered these same things - especially about cutting RG-3's lost years at one instead of letting Shanny waste 3 of his years - and we literally get laughed at. All I hear is Shanny is on the right track - over, and over, and over.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by punch it in

Me, Gtripp, goat and Mechanix have uttered these same things - especially about cutting RG-3's lost years at one instead of letting Shanny waste 3 of his years - and we literally get laughed at. All I hear is Shanny is on the right track - over, and over, and over.

Scroll to the 2:15 mark



It's in the presentation

[punch it in]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Scroll to the 2:15 mark



It's in the presentation

lmao - cant believe you had an obscure cosby show scene on hand for that.

Im going to go out on a limb here and say that if one of us had posted exactly what HTTR 24-7 had (because I believe we have), that NC skins reply would not have been "please rant" and "i agree" - not by a mile.

There is now someone who is alittle more respected as an "in the know" guy (and for good reason), than us "haters" and he is bringing some credibility to what we have been saying. Bottom line is we have been saying the same thing.

[EARTHQUAKE2689]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Scroll to the 2:15 mark



It's in the presentation

You just love that reference don't you?

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by EARTHQUAKE2689

You just love that reference don't you?

It's my go to. I have others but I think that one best captures why some posters here are better than others even if the message is the same

[The Goat]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Scroll to the 2:15 mark



It's in the presentation

More like timing there buddy boy. Some of us saw things clearly way earlier, that's all. It would have taken just one "authority" figure on TWP to stop the nonsensical defending of this regime, but you all chose to keep up the charade. Can't put that on anybody else.

To his credit Tripp saw it first, or at least said so first.

[NC_Skins]

Originally Posted by The Goat

More like timing there buddy boy. Some of us saw things clearly way ealier, that's all.

No, you were illogical with most of your rants about Shanahan. Negating his success in Denver to "Elway's doing", not crediting him with anything beyond drafting RGIII. You criticize the speed of a Garcon, yet thought he should have resigned Gaffney and brought in Plaxico Burress.

Most of your "things" you saw earlier still aren't correct and are invalid. Shanhan has made his mistakes, just not the ones you think he has.

[REDSKINS4ever]

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

No, you were illogical with most of your rants about Shanahan. Negating his success in Denver to "Elway's doing", not crediting him with anything beyond drafting RGIII. You criticize the speed of a Garcon, yet thought he should have resigned Gaffney and brought in Plaxico Burress.

Most of your "things" you saw earlier still aren't correct and are invalid. Shanhan has made his mistakes, just not the ones you think he has.

Despite the success of the passing offense, I didn't agree with the decision to keep Aldrick Robinson over Anthony Armstrong. Very stupid choice. Armstrong was clearly the better wide receiver while Robinson has dropped many passes this year that Armstrong would have pulled in.

[NC_Skins]

Originally Posted by REDSKINS4ever

Despite the success of the passing offense, I didn't agree with the decision to keep Aldrick Robinson over Anthony Armstrong. Very stupid choice. Armstrong was clearly the better wide receiver while Robinson has dropped many passes this year that Armstrong would have pulled in.

They fact that Armstrong hasn't stuck on a team yet validates Mike's move. I think he kept Robinson due to the upside as compared to AA. Also, it had been said a few times that AA was having troubles getting off the line cleanly.

I personally don't think it mattered that much which one of them he kept, they are both backups as far as I'm concerned.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by The Goat

More like timing there buddy boy. Some of us saw things clearly way earlier, that's all. It would have taken just one "authority" figure on TWP to stop the nonsensical defending of this regime, but you all chose to keep up the charade. Can't put that on anybody else.

To his credit Tripp saw it first, or at least said so first.

Buddy boy? You make some decent points in your posts. And then you come up with such idiocies as "Mike Shanahan had the benefit of playing in the easy AFC" followed by "Jeff Fisher is so awesome. He's been an amazing coach in the (suddenly powerful) AFC" or "Mike Shanahan is a has been who hasn't won in forever" followed by "I certainly wouldn't say no if Bill Cowher called"

That is why people say you hate just to hate.

You have this ridiculous assumption that the "authority" figures (I'm guessing you mean the mods) all agree on everything and I guess supress the voice of the "opposition" You couldn't be more wrong. You know's who long been an anti-Shanahan (particularly Kyle) guy. GMScud (not to drag you into this G) but that didn't stop me from suggesting he be our new moderator or the rest of the mods unanimously voting him in.

It's no wonder so many people have started ignoring you.

[The Goat]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Buddy boy? You make some decent points in your posts. And then you come up with such idiocies as "Mike Shanahan had the benefit of playing in the easy AFC" followed by "Jeff Fisher is so awesome. He's been an amazing coach in the (suddenly powerful) AFC" or "Mike Shanahan is a has been who hasn't won in forever" followed by "I certainly wouldn't say no if Bill Cowher called"

That is why people say you hate just to hate.

You have this ridiculous assumption that the "authority" figures (I'm guessing you mean the mods) all agree on everything and I guess supress the voice of the "opposition" You couldn't be more wrong. You know's who long been an anti-Shanahan (particularly Kyle) guy. GMScud (not to drag you into this G) but that didn't stop me from suggesting he be our new moderator or the rest of the mods unanimously voting him in.

It's no wonder so many people have started ignoring you.

Just don't try to make the "presentation" argument. I'm an unapologetic a$$hole and once it was obvious didn't hold back about calling this regime the joke it is, but there were plenty of folks around here offering perfectly polite analysis of how bad Mike and Co have been. Had nothing to do with lack of reasoned arguments, approach, etc. Had everything to do with the mods seemingly endless efforts to makes excuses for the regime and diminish the skeptics and their posts. Some of the skeptics just left the conversation, I didn't.

Again, trying to put it on presentation is just dishonest.

Edit: I think mods can forget how much their insertion of opinion, however inconsistent with reality, influences discussion etc etc. You have sycophants, toadies and bootlickers like NC who can't help themselves from agreeing with people of authority. That's an extreme case, but there's probably some reasonable, thoughtful Skins fans who just avoid discussion here because at times it's been more about rooting for a failed regime than a franchise.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by The Goat

Just don't try to make the "presentation" argument. I'm an unapologetic a$$hole and once it was obvious didn't hold back about calling this regime the joke it is, but there were plenty of folks around here offering perfectly polite analysis of how bad Mike and Co have been. Had nothing to do with lack of reasoned arguments, approach, etc. Had everything to do with the mods seemingly endless efforts to makes excuses for the regime and diminish the skeptics and their posts. Some of the skeptics just left the conversation, I didn't.

Again, trying to put it on presentation is just dishonest.

You...really are something else.

[NC_Skins]

Originally Posted by The Goat

Just don't try to make the "presentation" argument. I'm an unapologetic a$$hole and once it was obvious didn't hold back about calling this regime the joke it is, but there were plenty of folks around here offering perfectly polite analysis of how bad Mike and Co have been. Had nothing to do with lack of reasoned arguments, approach, etc. Had everything to do with the mods seemingly endless efforts to makes excuses for the regime and diminish the skeptics and their posts. Some of the skeptics just left the conversation, I didn't.

Again, trying to put it on presentation is just dishonest.