2012-13 Around the NBA thread

[Kindoy]

Originally Posted by itvnetop

Nobody measures success by scoring- if that were the case, Jerry Stackhouse and Glenn Robinson are Hall of Famers. You don't get to say, "no player would have won with that team" as the counterpoint. The data is states he can't win without Phil, so your theories hold no weight. Kobe's excited about the new coach because he now has a green light to fling it. And we see what happens when Kobe goes 1 on 5 (81 points against the mighty Raptors in the regular season, withstanding).

And I wouldn't take Dwight's quotes seriously... after what we've seen the past few years, would you? His "aloofness" was fine when his teammates weren't named Kobe Bryant.

I think Laker fans are in denial. D'antoni has no use for the post game and his short rotations are made for young legs. Let's be real- the Lakers are going to look exciting and they'll win a lot of regular season games... And then, the playoffs will tell another story. There's a reason why Lakerland is praying for Nate McMillan- you guys are doomed without a defensive assistant. ("But... but, we have Dwight. And MWP!" lol)

Oh a defensive assistant like Steve Clifford right? The guy thats already on our staff?

The "no player would have won with that team" point does hold weight - NBA analysts and columnists use it all the time, Stephen A. Smith to name someone. No team wins with Smush Parker, Chucky Atkins, Kwame Brown & Chris Mihm rotating into the starting line up. Because he didn't win a ring without Phil doesn't mean he CAN'T win without Phil. Made it to the second round last year, went 41-25. It isn't championship stuff, but i'd consider that winning, especially in a shortened season learning pieces of a new system all season long.

It's amazing how people are already writing the Lakers off in the playoffs. Apparently there is no chance that D'Antoni will alter his system even the slightest to fit the Lakers roster. The guy is stubborn, not stupid. He, Kobe & Nash will find a way to make it work. The post game doesn't need to be prominent, this offense will be worked around the pick & roll with Gasol and pick & pop with Dwight. The first unit won't be running and gunning like his past teams have, the second unit will be with Meeks, Morris, Ebanks, Jamison, Hill.

And whats wrong with Kobe being excited about flinging it? If theres anyone that should have the green light to shoot it 24/7 its Kobe. I don't see how an offense with that idea built in is a problem. The only way Kobe shooting it all the time is a problem is if it impedes the running of the offense, but now that IS the offense. Either let Kobe shoot it early in the shot clock or run the pick & roll/pop if he doesn't.

[itvnetop]

Originally Posted by Kindoy

Oh a defensive assistant like Steve Clifford right? The guy thats already on our staff?

The "no player would have won with that team" point does hold weight - NBA analysts and columnists use it all the time, Stephen A. Smith to name someone. No team wins with Smush Parker, Chucky Atkins, Kwame Brown & Chris Mihm rotating into the starting line up. Because he didn't win a ring without Phil doesn't mean he CAN'T win without Phil. Made it to the second round last year, went 41-25. It isn't championship stuff, but i'd consider that winning, especially in a shortened season learning pieces of a new system all season long.

LeBron James made it to the NBA Finals with the exciting cast of Larry Hughes, Boobie Gibson and Sasha Pavlovic. And friggin' Mike Brown, as their coach... Mike Brown! That run was herculean- and they got past Detroit that year.

OK, nobody's winning with Smush Parker or Kwame Brown, either- but the difference is LeBron makes his teammates better. But if you're going to quote Stephen A. Smith, at least quote him saying yesterday that the D'antoni hiring doesn't fit this Laker personnel. Kobe scores a lot, often inefficiently. Kobe could make his teammates better by passing the ball when defenses start doubling or triple teaming him in the fourth... but he often doesn't. Um, has Steve Clifford made anyone better defensively so far?

Well, if you want Kobe shooting the ball non-stop (with all that talent standing around watching him), you're going to see what happens in the playoffs. Nash will eventually start getting cranky if he brings the ball up court and Kobe shoots it in 7 seconds. And that bench isn't scaring anyone. The Lakers are the least athletic team in the league, but they'll be good for a fun regular season and maybe two playoff rounds. Mike Brown should have allowed for some pick and roll earlier on, obviously. But no (D)'antoni can't just rely on the p'n'r all year... athletic wings are going to close out fairly quickly, especially during the playoffs. And without any type of post up game, Pau and Howard's skills are highly underutilized.

[Kindoy]

Originally Posted by itvnetop

LeBron James made it to the NBA Finals with the exciting cast of Larry Hughes, Boobie Gibson and Sasha Pavlovic. And friggin' Mike Brown, as their coach... Mike Brown! That run was herculean- and they got past Detroit that year.

OK, nobody's winning with Smush Parker or Kwame Brown, either- but the difference is LeBron makes his teammates better. But if you're going to quote Stephen A. Smith, at least quote him saying yesterday that the D'antoni hiring doesn't fit this Laker personnel. Kobe scores a lot, often inefficiently. Kobe could make his teammates better by passing the ball when defenses start doubling or triple teaming him in the fourth... but he often doesn't. Um, has Steve Clifford made anyone better defensively so far?

Well, if you want Kobe shooting the ball non-stop (with all that talent standing around watching him), you're going to see what happens in the playoffs. Nash will eventually start getting cranky if he brings the ball up court and Kobe shoots it in 7 seconds. And that bench isn't scaring anyone. The Lakers are the least athletic team in the league, but they'll be good for a fun regular season and maybe two playoff rounds. Mike Brown should have allowed for some pick and roll earlier on, obviously. But no (D)'antoni can't just rely on the p'n'r all year... athletic wings are going to close out fairly quickly, especially during the playoffs. And without any type of post up game, Pau and Howard's skills are highly underutilized.

Not even going into the LeBron v. Kobe thing and not comparing those rosters either. LeBron's roster had pieces that fit around him (shooters) - Kobe didn't quite frankly.

To answer your Steve Clifford question, yes. He was the defensive assistant that coached the Magic & Dwight the three years Dwight won DPOY as well as the year they made it to the finals.

D'Antoni, Kobe, & Nash will put their noggins together and make it work. If we're going with a Stephen A. quote marathon ill go with another thing he said - "They're too smart not to". D'Antoni will modify this offense and incorporate some looks to play to Pau/Dwight/Kobe's strengths. Nobody is calling for Kobe to shoot it every time down, but the base of this offense calls for early shots and if there is anyone i want shooting on this team it's Kobe plain and simple. You run the pick and roll and let Nash read, thats it, either kick it to Kobe or don't. If you're wingmen close then you dump it in to the post, I think D'Antoni is smart enough to figure that out. Dwight isn't going to just be doing cartwheels around the 3 point line after a pick and roll. Just because the Lakers want to shoot it early doesn't mean they have to. D'Antoni can really on the pick and roll all year teams have done it before and reached the finals (Stockton & Malone Jazz to name one) and teams still do it (Bulls, Cavs, Celtics etc.).

He's never had a team like this. The Suns and Knicks weren't bad at defense because he didn't coach it, they were bad because they were disinterested in defense. Nash jokingly said they didn't play defense because thats not what they were payed to do. Get Clifford, or McMillan if he is hired to motivate them a little and they'll play enough defense to win. Even Kobe in one of his recent interviews said they ran about 3 defensive drills EVER with Phil, no exaggeration, and many of those teams were consider solid defensive teams mainly because they had size in the middle (see Dwight, Pau, Hill). Defense in the NBA is effort, motivation, and good communication - not X's and O's.

[itvnetop]

Originally Posted by Kindoy

Not even going into the LeBron v. Kobe thing and not comparing those rosters either. LeBron's roster had pieces that fit around him (shooters) - Kobe didn't quite frankly.

To answer your Steve Clifford question, yes. He was the defensive assistant that coached the Magic & Dwight the three years Dwight won DPOY as well as the year they made it to the finals.

D'Antoni, Kobe, & Nash will put their noggins together and make it work. If we're going with a Stephen A. quote marathon ill go with another thing he said - "They're too smart not to". D'Antoni will modify this offense and incorporate some looks to play to Pau/Dwight/Kobe's strengths. Nobody is calling for Kobe to shoot it every time down, but the base of this offense calls for early shots and if there is anyone i want shooting on this team it's Kobe plain and simple. You run the pick and roll and let Nash read, thats it, either kick it to Kobe or don't. If you're wingmen close then you dump it in to the post, I think D'Antoni is smart enough to figure that out. Dwight isn't going to just be doing cartwheels around the 3 point line after a pick and roll. Just because the Lakers want to shoot it early doesn't mean they have to. D'Antoni can really on the pick and roll all year teams have done it before and reached the finals (Stockton & Malone Jazz to name one) and teams still do it (Bulls, Cavs, Celtics etc.).

He's never had a team like this. The Suns and Knicks weren't bad at defense because he didn't coach it, they were bad because they were disinterested in defense. Nash jokingly said they didn't play defense because thats not what they were payed to do. Get Clifford, or McMillan if he is hired to motivate them a little and they'll play enough defense to win. Even Kobe in one of his recent interviews said they ran about 3 defensive drills EVER with Phil, no exaggeration, and many of those teams were consider solid defensive teams mainly because they had size in the middle (see Dwight, Pau, Hill). Defense in the NBA is effort, motivation, and good communication - not X's and O's.

Lebron didn't have players that fit in with him anymore than Kobe did. He just had players that could drain open shots because of the way he played. What exactly has Boobie Gibson or Sasha Pavlovic accomplished without him? If you've ever seen professional wing players on the playground, most of them can hit the open basket with ease- that's why they're professionals. Kobe definitely wasn't winning a ring with Smush and the machine (that sounds like some rejected hipster band name), but he sure didn't elevate their play with his own.

Steve Clifford may have been an assistant with Orlando- but he's not the reason why Howard won DPOY. Dwight Howard is DPOY because he is Dwight Howard. The Magic were decent defensively because of the risks they were able to take on the perimeter... The wings could gamble because they knew they had a safety net in the paint. In fact, the only other decent defender I can remember on that team was Courtney Lee. This should be good news for LA fans if Dwight can get healthy again.

If pick and roll was the only difference needed, I'm not sure why D'antoni was needed for that... the offensive set is a fairly basic one to teach. And the Suns and Knicks were bad on defense specifically because of the D'antoni system (there's no desire to play it if the coach emphasizes offense, only). If the coach's philosophy is to shoot the ball within 7 seconds, the ball is either going in or the defense is getting a rebound (with an offensive rebound once in a while). If the system tells you to run an offensive set that quickly, the team is running up and down the court. There's no time to set up a proper defense.

Wait... the Knicks seem to be a lot better defensively after D'antoni left. They've basically got the same team, unless you're going to convince me Raymond Felton is locking players down. And while Kidd was known for a being a great defender, he's hardly all team nowadays. Woodson was also an assistant under D'antoni, but what's the difference now? Oh yeah, the head coach sets the table. If Melo's finally playing defense, it's because Woodson's pushed the intiative. Most offensive players would love to have a coach tell them not to worry about defense- hence, why players love D'antoni. And if Amare comes back and starts playing D, we'll all know where the motivation comes from.

Hey, if the Lakers win the ring in the next two years I'll admit I was wrong. That's the window the Lakers have with this team. I think Howard's gone after this season if the year goes south.

[Kindoy]

Originally Posted by itvnetop

Lebron didn't have players that fit in with him anymore than Kobe did. He just had players that could drain open shots because of the way he played. What exactly has Boobie Gibson or Sasha Pavlovic accomplished without him? If you've ever seen professional wing players on the playground, most of them can hit the open basket with ease- that's why they're professionals. Kobe definitely wasn't winning a ring with Smush and the machine (that sounds like some rejected hipster band name), but he sure didn't elevate their play with his own.

Steve Clifford may have been an assistant with Orlando- but he's not the reason why Howard won DPOY. Dwight Howard is DPOY because he is Dwight Howard. The Magic were decent defensively because of the risks they were able to take on the perimeter... The wings could gamble because they knew they had a safety net in the paint. In fact, the only other decent defender I can remember on that team was Courtney Lee. This should be good news for LA fans if Dwight can get healthy again.

If pick and roll was the only difference needed, I'm not sure why D'antoni was needed for that... the offensive set is a fairly basic one to teach. And the Suns and Knicks were bad on defense specifically because of the D'antoni system (there's no desire to play it if the coach emphasizes offense, only). If the coach's philosophy is to shoot the ball within 7 seconds, the ball is either going in or the defense is getting a rebound (with an offensive rebound once in a while). If the system tells you to run an offensive set that quickly, the team is running up and down the court. There's no time to set up a proper defense.

Wait... the Knicks seem to be a lot better defensively after D'antoni left. They've basically got the same team, unless you're going to convince me Raymond Felton is locking players down. And while Kidd was known for a being a great defender, he's hardly all team nowadays. Woodson was also an assistant under D'antoni, but what's the difference now? Oh yeah, the head coach sets the table. If Melo's finally playing defense, it's because Woodson's pushed the intiative. Most offensive players would love to have a coach tell them not to worry about defense- hence, why players love D'antoni. And if Amare comes back and starts playing D, we'll all know where the motivation comes from.

Hey, if the Lakers win the ring in the next two years I'll admit I was wrong. That's the window the Lakers have with this team. I think Howard's gone after this season if the year goes south.

Welp, we don't need a coach for D because we have Dwight Howard. And we don't need a coach for offense because the pick and roll is so simple... i guess we don't need a coach.

Melo has already shown signs of letting up on D (not getting back, etc.), give him 5 more games and he'll be as lazy as ever. Granted they have been better on defense... but 6 games or whatever they've played doesn't sell me on much.

I still think D'Antonis a good hire. Inspired, thoughtful coach, isn't your average Joe like Brown seemed to be. The guys want to play for him, thats half the battle as an NBA coach. He'll conjure something up to fit this squad. Anyways, its all talk until the seasons over.

[skinsfanthru&thru]

Old man Kobe with another triple double. Eliminating the Princeton offense sure has helped things a bit for the team.

[mlmpetert]

Virginia Beach reportedly reaches deal with Comcast, Kings; may ask for $150 million from statehouse - Sactown Royalty