Is there room for Orakpo and Rob Jackson?

[donofriose]

Originally Posted by FRPLG

Jackson's probably played himself to a better contract than Lorenzo but neither should be getting a starter's deal. Lorenzo is a Lego you put in 6 different places and you know he'll be solid. Jackson seems to be a good guy with solid football smarts and a dash of football-player athleticism thrown in but he isn't an every down force. He's a fantastic depth player who can start for you in a pinch. Good teams develop players like that, lose them when they perform, replace them with someone similarly skilled and develop that new person.

That is exactly what Rob Jackson is, a player you develop and replace.

[12thMan]

I like all angles of the discussion. But no one can convince me that Brian Orakpo is an elite talent at this point in his career. He has solid sack totals, but that's it. And not to diminish his talent and contribution to the team, but freak of nature doesn't get it for me. Now I'm not saying dump the guy or trade him or any of that, but I think we get caught up and miss the point at times.

Mario Williams accumulated a lot of sacks in Houston, but they aren't missing him one bit down there.

[Southpaw]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

I like all angles of the discussion. But no one can convince me that Brian Orakpo is an elite talent at this point in his career.

I called him an elite talent, but he has not produced at an elite level. Certainly above average, though. I don't think it's too much of a stretch to call him the most naturally gifted player on the defense, which is why I'd rather keep him. "Try Hards" are fine, but every legit defense in the NFL has at least a few exceptionally talented players.

[Chico23231]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

I like all angles of the discussion. But no one can convince me that Brian Orakpo is an elite talent at this point in his career. He has solid sack totals, but that's it. And not to diminish his talent and contribution to the team, but freak of nature doesn't get it for me. Now I'm not saying dump the guy or trade him or any of that, but I think we get caught up and miss the point at times.

Mario Williams accumulated a lot of sacks in Houston, but they aren't missing him one bit down there.

Our pass rush has been impacted significantly since he has been out of the lineup. I think his impact has been pretty clear.

I think his injury is the biggest variable in this discussion. It could linger the rest of his career, therefore we need to resign Jackson. I dont think he will be demanding high money, his biggest reason to leave might be an opportunity to be a full time starter somewhere.

[Defensewins]

The better question is what is Orakpo? A one trick pony that is only good at pass rush with only one pass rush move? Or is he finally going to take the next step, stay healthy and develop into the next great OLB. He has not done that later yet.

[NC_Skins]

Do you think Orakpo makes that INT that Jackson did this past weekend? Hell, do you think he makes any of those INTs that Jackson has this year? (probably not since he hasn't had a INT since he's been in the league) He's got 4.5 sacks, but didn't start 2 of those games. He's better in passes defensed, INTs, but doesn't bring the pressure that Orakpo does.

[Defensewins]

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

Do you think Orakpo makes that INT that Jackson did this past weekend? Hell, do you think he makes any of those INTs that Jackson has this year? (probably not since he hasn't had a INT since he's been in the league) He's got 4.5 sacks, but didn't start 2 of those games. He's better in passes defensed, INTs, but doesn't bring the pressure that Orakpo does.

We won the NFC East with out Orakpo's pass rush pressure. How critical is that pressure?

[NC_Skins]

Originally Posted by Defensewins

We won the NFC East with out Orakpo's pass rush pressure. How critical is that pressure?

That's really something I cannot answer. Definitely something the coaches will have to decide.

[Southpaw]

Originally Posted by Defensewins

We won the NFC East with out Orakpo's pass rush pressure. How critical is that pressure?

Winning the NFC East does not discount the fact the Redskins still have to 28th ranked defense in the league. The rest of the team isn't so perfect that they can afford to disregard a principle of NFL defenses. They should be able to create pressure without having to rush six defenders, but since Orakpo went down that hasn't happened.

Ask the 2007 and 2011 Giants if a pass rush is critical.

[Defensewins]

Originally Posted by Southpaw

Winning the NFC East does not discount the fact the Redskins still have to 28th ranked defense in the league. The rest of the team isn't so perfect that they can afford to disregard a principle of NFL defenses. They should be able to create pressure without having to rush six defenders, but since Orakpo went down that hasn't happened.

Ask the 2007 and 2011 Giants if a pass rush is critical.

Winning does trumps all. We play to win, win division titles and Superbowls, not to lead the NFL in sacks stat.
If a pass rush and sacks are so "critical" (using your words), why is that of the top 13 teams that led the NFL in sacks in 2012 over half (eight) of them did not even make the playoffs?
2012 NFL Team Defense Stats - National Football League - ESPN

I am not trying to discount the importance of sacks, just trying to say that it is a fraction of the game and they are not as critical as you and the media want to make it out to be. Stopping the run and running the ball take a back seat in the media coverage of the NFL that wants and tries to make it a Qb driven league and all that Bull Shit. Lost in all of this is our defense is ranked 5th at stopping the run and we are the #1*team at running the ball on offense.

[Southpaw]

Originally Posted by Defensewins

If a pass rush and sacks are so "critical" (using your words), why is that of the top 13 teams that led the NFL in sacks in 2012 over half (eight) of them did not even make the playoffs?

Sack totals are not critical, but pressuring the quarterback is. The Redskins have been terrible at generating pressure with less than five defenders since Orakpo went down. If they could generate pressure with less defenders, the overall performance of the defense would improve.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by Defensewins

We won the NFC East with out Orakpo's pass rush pressure. How critical is that pressure?

We'd still be better off with his pass rushing abilities.

We also won without Fred Davis and a number of key guys. Are they any less valuable going forward?

[Defensewins]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

We'd still be better off with his pass rushing abilities.

We also won without Fred Davis and a number of key guys. Are they any less valuable going forward?

Of course not. I am not saying cut them.
What I am fearful of is next season undervaluing guys that did the grunt work that might not have the sexy stats attached to their name.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by Defensewins

Of course not. I am not saying cut them.
What I am fearful of is next season undervaluing guys that did the grunt work that might not have the sexy stats attached to their name.

I didn't say cut them either. Just saying we'd be better off with them even though we did manage to have success without them.

I think Jackson will be a priority to keep around with Rak coming back off an injury. He's a RFA, so we'll be able to match any offers if he does indeed hit the market.

I love what he's done this year, he's made some plays that I don't think Rak would make, and I think you could also say that Rak has shown he's able to make plays that Jackson probably can't.

[KLHJ2]

Why not kick Rob Jackson inside with Perry Riley when Fletcher decides to hang it up?