Is there room for Orakpo and Rob Jackson?

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by RGIII

With the success of low round draft picks, this team could start a pipeline of players like Jackson...

How could that happen? It's well known that Shanahan is a horrible talent evaluator and, besides, this team is nothing more than a Zorn/Cerrato redux - there's no real youthful talent here.

[JoeRedskin]

Was trying to find the site's excel cap sheets - probably some place obvious, but I can't seem to locate them. Anyone got the link? Just wondering what the last numbers for 2013 were.

[FRPLG]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

Was trying to find the site's excel cap sheets - probably some place obvious, but I can't seem to locate them. Anyone got the link? Just wondering what the last numbers for 2013 were.

Look under the banner

[JoeRedskin]

^^^ lol ... duh.

I r smert ... reelly i m.

[12thMan]

My concern with Orakpo is if he's going to be that pass rush guy, then his sack total should be in the 15-17 range. Otherwise, he needs to develop coverage skills to offset lack of sacks.

Also, Kerrigan is beginning to learn how to play without Orakpo. So the idea that he "frees up" Kerrigan may have been truer at the beginning of the season, than it is now.

[BigHairedAristocrat]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

My concern with Orakpo is if he's going to be that pass rush guy, then his sack total should be in the 15-17 range. Otherwise, he needs to develop coverage skills to offset lack of sacks.

Also, Kerrigan is beginning to learn how to play without Orakpo. So the idea that he "frees up" Kerrigan may have been truer at the beginning of the season, than it is now.

Only 4 players in the league had 15 or more sacks in the league this year. So youre saying if orakpo is going to be a pass rusher, he has to be in the top 4 in the league? That pretty absurd. Most GOOD pass rushers average 10-11 in a season.

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

Only 4 players in the league had 15 or more sacks in the league this year. So youre saying if orakpo is going to be a pass rusher, he has to be in the top 4 in the league? That pretty absurd. Most GOOD pass rushers average 10-11 in a season.

He's a first round pick for crying out loud and there are some who say he's an elite talent. He has the potential to be in the 15 sack echelon. Time to live up to it.

[KLHJ2]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

He's a first round pick for crying out loud and there are some who say he's an elite talent. He has the potential to be in the 15 sack echelon. Time to live up to it.

I think that he would have this year, but he got injured too early. I understand your frustration but the decline of the pass rush was evident without him. I do not want to kick either to the curb, but Orakpo is the better pass rushing LB for the 3-4 defense. I believe that he is going to play to his potential next season.

[BigHairedAristocrat]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

He's a first round pick for crying out loud and there are some who say he's an elite talent. He has the potential to be in the 15 sack echelon. Time to live up to it.

So every player picked in the first round should be the top 4 at their position? Statistically, that's impossible. The fact that some people say he is an elite talent is also irrelevant. I could say John Beck is an elite talent, but that doesnt mean anyone should expect him to play like Peyton Manning. Does orakpo have the potential to get 15 sacks in a year? Sure, but so do half a dozen other players on any team. It all depends on what position a player plays, what scheme he's in, what plays are called, what offensive lines he's playing against, how immobile the quarterbacks are, etc. If Haslett called CB blitzes every snap, Hall would probably have 15 sacks. You cant just look at a stat like sacks in a vaccum and grade a players quality and value based on that alone. I get that Orakpo may not have lived up to your personal expecations yet, but I think youre oversimplifying things and being a bit unrealistic.

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

So every player picked in the first round should be the top 4 at their position? Statistically, that's impossible. The fact that some people say he is an elite talent is also irrelevant. I could say John Beck is an elite talent, but that doesnt mean anyone should expect him to play like Peyton Manning. Does orakpo have the potential to get 15 sacks in a year? Sure, but so do half a dozen other players on any team. It all depends on what position a player plays, what scheme he's in, what plays are called, what offensive lines he's playing against, how immobile the quarterbacks are, etc. If Haslett called CB blitzes every snap, Hall would probably have 15 sacks. You cant just look at a stat like sacks in a vaccum and grade a players quality and value based on that alone. I get that Orakpo may not have lived up to your personal expecations yet, but I think youre oversimplifying things and being a bit unrealistic.

I'm not necessarily arguing what's statistically possible. Though that's usually a good way to measure a pass rusher's effectiveness. My bottom line, for all the hype, I want to see Brian Orakpo step into the echelon of perennial pass NFL pass rushers. So far, he hasn't. If that's asking too much, then sue me. We can go back and forth about Haslett's system, but next year I'd like to see more from Orakpo.

The central question in my mind is this: Can this defense survive without him? Now that may be a simplistic view, but it's certainly one way to look at things.

[REDSKINS4ever]

It's excellent that Rob Jackson is there for depth purposes. But he's an overall better OLB in the 3-4 than Orakpo. I say that because he's not as good a pass rusher as Orakpo, but he's certainly better in coverage and has the talent to rush the passer from the edge effectively even if it's not as good as Orakpo.

[donofriose]

Originally Posted by REDSKINS4ever

It's excellent that Rob Jackson is there for depth purposes. But he's an overall better OLB in the 3-4 than Orakpo. I say that because he's not as good a pass rusher as Orakpo, but he's certainly better in coverage and has the talent to rush the passer from the edge effectively even if it's not as good as Orakpo.

He is better at pass coverage and that is it. Jackson is not a better pass rusher or better against the run. So to say Jackson is a better overall linebacker in my opinion is incorrect since Orakpo is stronger at the point then Jackson, better at containment and a better pass rusher by a significant margin.

[los panda]

kerrigan in 2011: 7.5 sacks w orakpo
kerrigan in 2012: 8.5 sacks w/o orakpo

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by los panda

kerrigan in 2011: 7.5 sacks w orakpo
kerrigan in 2012: 8.5 sacks w/o orakpo

Exactly.

[CultBrennan59]

Originally Posted by los panda

kerrigan in 2011: 7.5 sacks w orakpo
kerrigan in 2012: 8.5 sacks w/o orakpo

Kerrigan, a rookie with Orakpo gets 1 sack, ONE(!) Sack less than he does as a 2nd year player without him. Not exactly staggering. All rookies typically get better from year 1 to year 2. You could also look at it as what could Kerrigan do in his 2nd year WITH Orakpo?!?