The Future is Here: The NFL and the Pistol Offense

[The Goat]

Originally Posted by Lotus

You have more than implied that the pistol is a play. You have presumed it in repeated posts, including the very post here.

For the last time, the pistol can be run without the QB EVER keeping the ball (I repeat, EVER). The pistol in no way prima facie presumes that the QB will keep the ball at any % above zero. Thus the concerns you expressed in your post are completely moot.

You can only make the argument that you make above if the pistol is a play - which it is not.

Goat, I have responded to your posts when others have ignored you in the hope that you will come around to seeing things clearly. Now I'm done.

Again, nobody has debated whether you can use the pistol without the QB ever keeping the ball. The debate is whether it can be effective without the QB ever keeping the ball. Looking at the data, successful use of the pistol formation thus far is limited to offenses where the QB indeed keeps the ball X number of times in a game, you cannot possibly believe the debate is settled.

I think maybe where you got confused (starting in another thread) is when I compared the initial success of the Wildcat, as something new defenses had to adjust for, to the emergence of the pistol as something new defenses have to adjust for? My post was probably lazy and resulted in your confusion.

[BigHairedAristocrat]

Originally Posted by The Goat

Again, nobody has debated whether you can use the pistol without the QB ever keeping the ball. The debate is whether it can be effective without the QB ever keeping the ball. Looking at the data, successful use of the pistol formation thus far is limited to offenses where the QB indeed keeps the ball X number of times in a game, you cannot possibly believe the debate is settled.

I think maybe where you got confused (starting in another thread) is when I compared the initial success of the Wildcat, as something new defenses had to adjust for, to the emergence of the pistol as something new defenses have to adjust for? My post was probably lazy and resulted in your confusion.

We've run the pistol in games were Griffin only kept the ball once or twice. Because he is RGIII, and he is a THREAT to run at any time, defenses have to respect that threat and, therefore, the pistol will work. The reason you'll never see guys like Peyton Manning run the pistol is because there is no point in doing it. Manning is terribly immobile. He's not a THREAT to run, so defense dont have to respect that threat.

The pistol will always be effective as long as the quarterback is a THREAT to run.

[The Goat]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

We've run the pistol in games were Griffin only kept the ball once or twice. Because he is RGIII, and he is a THREAT to run at any time, defenses have to respect that threat and, therefore, the pistol will work. The reason you'll never see guys like Peyton Manning run the pistol is because there is no point in doing it. Manning is terribly immobile. He's not a THREAT to run, so defense dont have to respect that threat.

The pistol will always be effective as long as the quarterback is a THREAT to run.

Agree with everything here, though it remains to be seen how the mad scientist d coordinators will adjust during an off-season etc. Nobody focused on defending the pistol formation prior to this year.

The Shanahans were brilliant in adopting/implementing it. On the other hand, I was equally impressed to see Mike's old school west coast offense at work in Cleveland. I have no doubt in the Shanahans' offensive genius now given the right tools.

[BigHairedAristocrat]

Originally Posted by The Goat

Agree with everything here, though it remains to be seen how the mad scientist d coordinators will adjust during an off-season etc. Nobody focused on defending the pistol formation prior to this year.

The Shanahans were brilliant in adopting/implementing it. On the other hand, I was equally impressed to see Mike's old school west coast offense at work in Cleveland. I have no doubt in the Shanahans' offensive genius now given the right tools.

I honestly don't know if the offense can actually be stopped by scheme, but I'm sure coordinators can figure out how to contain it (ie containing the big play, allowing the short stuff and hoping we make a mistake). The thing about running the play option from the pistol is that the defense has to account for all 11 players with their 11 players. The offense is always going to have the edge when it can make the defense view the quarterback as a running threat.

Crucial to the whole thing though, is griffins ability to sell the fake. He makes defense think he has the ball when a running back does and visa versa. IMO he does it better than anyone in the game. If defenses ever figured out how to see through griffins fakes, like poker players learn to tell when an opponent is bluffing, then the whole thing falls appart and you can discount everything I said. But everything happens so quickly, that it would only work if you had a qb spy type player on defense with high intelligence, exceptional athleticism, and the eyes of a hawk.... So I don't see it happening.

On a related note, I wonder if part of Russell's success can be attributed to his munchkin size... Can defenses even see what hes doing over 6'6 offensive lineman?