RGIII undergoing total reconstructive surgery: out 6-8 months

[Ruhskins]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

A few thoughts:

1) The accident wouldnt have happened to Peyton Manning because he's a statue and doesnt move around.

2) I honestly dont know if we know for 100% certainty which play actually did the "real" damage to RGIII's knee.

3) We are both looking at the same data (of which neither of us have all the info) and trying to take that information to project the future (which neither of us can do). You think its just a freak accident that happened in RGIIIs first season of playing football more than 12-13 weeks, and everything will be back and he'll be fine. Thats a reasonable projection. I think its just as reasonable to think "this guy missed a year in college for injuring his knee and in his first NFL season, he reinjures the same knee... this isnt good." Where you see randomness, i see a pattern forming.

I get where youre coming from, but there really isnt much else to talk about. We're less than a week removed from hearing RGIII had major surgery - i would think something would be wrong with us as fans if we WEREN'T talking about this.

I keep looking at the play when Ngata hit RG3 and the way RG3's knee got twisted. I don't care if you are Cam Newton, Russell Wilson (who is way smaller than RG3), Colin K., Big Ben, or any other mobile or running QB, your knee is going to get f'ed up. My point is that whether RG3 is 6'2"/217 lbs. or 6'5"/230 lbs., if your knee bends that way, you are screwed.

I think there is legitimate concern about him having his knee injured again. But plenty of people have come back from injuries such as Rivers back in 2007 or Willis McGahee. People forget how McGahee shredded his knee at the Fiesta Bowl in 2003 (he tore just about every CL there is on his knee). And was able to come back to have a good career.

I would first like to see how he recovers before I make outlandish statements about trading RG3 and keeping Cousins and all the other non-sense you keep hearing.

[44ever]

Originally Posted by Ruhskins

I keep looking at the play when Ngata hit RG3 and the way RG3's knee got twisted. I don't care if you are Cam Newton, Russell Wilson (who is way smaller than RG3), Colin K., Big Ben, or any other mobile or running QB, your knee is going to get f'ed up. My point is that whether RG3 is 6'2"/217 lbs. or 6'5"/230 lbs., if your knee bends that way, you are screwed.

I think there is legitimate concern about him having his knee injured again. But plenty of people have come back from injuries such as Rivers back in 2007 or Willis McGahee. People forget how McGahee shredded his knee at the Fiesta Bowl in 2003 (he tore just about every CL there is on his knee). And was able to come back to have a good career.

I would first like to see how he recovers before I make outlandish statements about trading RG3 and keeping Cousins and all the other non-sense you keep hearing.

Back during the Eagles Redskins game I commented that I would not be surprised to see RG3 in surgery after our season ends. I was immediately called crazy but it wasn't craziness, it was common sense.

RG3, as much as we all like him, most likely will continue to be injury prone because of his style of play, take away his style of play and lose RG3 as we know him anyway. Either way, RG3 will not (can not) be the type of QB he was.

Lets not forget he also suffered a concussion this season, a few more of them and he's joining Aikman in the booth..

The observation at this point is not looking good for RG3's future health, projected from what we have seen thus far.

As far as nonsense talk about keeping Cousins, if Cousins where to bring the Skins to the playoffs nonsense would become commonsense.

With that said, anything can happen and I am hoping for the best regarding RG3... Nothing wrong with speculating IMO.

[Ruhskins]

Originally Posted by 44ever

Back during the Eagles Redskins game I commented that I would not be surprised to see RG3 in surgery after our season ends. I was immediately called crazy but it wasn't craziness, it was common sense.

RG3, as much as we all like him, most likely will continue to be injury prone because of his style of play, take away his style of play and lose RG3 as we know him anyway. Either way, RG3 will not (can not) be the type of QB he was.

Lets not forget he also suffered a concussion this season, a few more of them and he's joining Aikman in the booth..

The observation at this point is not looking good for RG3's future health, projected from what we have seen thus far.

As far as nonsense talk about keeping Cousins, if Cousins where to bring the Skins to the playoffs nonsense would become commonsense.

With that said, anything can happen and I am hoping for the best regarding RG3... Nothing wrong with speculating IMO.

I don't see anything wrong with RG3 becoming a mobile (not running) QB like Big Ben or Rodgers. I am not saying that RG3 is going to be healthy forever, but some people act like he's going to be Ryan Matthews or someone like that.

[44ever]

Originally Posted by Ruhskins

I don't see anything wrong with RG3 becoming a mobile (not running) QB like Big Ben or Rodgers. I am not saying that RG3 is going to be healthy forever, but some people act like he's going to be Ryan Matthews or someone like that.

Strait talk... No question he will be back. No doubt he can be a dangerous mobile QB. He has demonstrated he can also be dangerous in the pocket. I guess the question is going to be, can he limit himself and still play all out? Bigger question is, will he limit himself or go back to what he does best?

Definitely a wait and see.

[DynamiteRave]

Originally Posted by 44ever

Strait talk... No question he will be back. No doubt he can be a dangerous mobile QB. He has demonstrated he can also be dangerous in the pocket. I guess the question is going to be, can he limit himself and still play all out? Bigger question is, will he limit himself or go back to what he does best?

Definitely a wait and see.

RG3 and limit don't even go together.

The guy is going to go back out there and push himself. Unless that knee is really killing him or Shanahan explicitly tells him that it's okay to run around but limit the long runs, Griff is going to try to be the Griff he was prior to the injury.

[mooby]

Originally Posted by 44ever

Strait talk... No question he will be back. No doubt he can be a dangerous mobile QB. He has demonstrated he can also be dangerous in the pocket. I guess the question is going to be, can he limit himself and still play all out? Bigger question is, will he limit himself or go back to what he does best?

Definitely a wait and see.

Why will it matter if Kirk Cousins is the future though?

[DynamiteRave]

Originally Posted by mooby

why will it matter if kirk cousins is the future though?

zing!

[44ever]

Originally Posted by mooby

Why will it matter if Kirk Cousins is the future though?

It wouldn't, Kirk leading this team in the future is my opinion based on certain variables that I have observed, that is all.

[Daseal]

Originally Posted by Ruhskins

I don't see anything wrong with RG3 becoming a mobile (not running) QB like Big Ben or Rodgers. I am not saying that RG3 is going to be healthy forever, but some people act like he's going to be Ryan Matthews or someone like that.

I think later in his career he has the arm and the ability to become a mobile, but not running QB. I think the next few years he will continue to be a running QB. The problem isn't the fact that RG3 is a running QB, the problem is he is a reckless runner. He's constantly looking for an extra 2 yards, a cut back lane, etc.

Even in the playoff game, he took multiple hits he could have avoided. Learn to slide. Learn to run out of bounds. Learn to throw the ball away. Live to fight another day. We get it. You're tough. You're also a bit stupid. Don't fight for those extra 2 yards in the 2nd quarter when you already got a first down.

[Lotus]

Originally Posted by Daseal

I think later in his career he has the arm and the ability to become a mobile, but not running QB. I think the next few years he will continue to be a running QB. The problem isn't the fact that RG3 is a running QB, the problem is he is a reckless runner. He's constantly looking for an extra 2 yards, a cut back lane, etc.

Even in the playoff game, he took multiple hits he could have avoided. Learn to slide. Learn to run out of bounds. Learn to throw the ball away. Live to fight another day. We get it. You're tough. You're also a bit stupid. Don't fight for those extra 2 yards in the 2nd quarter when you already got a first down.

I think that you are right.

Sooner or later Gryphon is destined to become less of a runner. Running backs burn out and leave the league early; running QB's who can throw have much longer careers during which they become less mobile and become more pure pocket passers (I'm thinking Moon, Cunningham, Elway, or perhaps McNair here).

It seems to me that the worst-case scenario of Gryphon's recovery is the hastening of his becoming more of a pure pocket passer earlier in his career - a pocket passer who is a beast, by the way.

[los panda]

Originally Posted by Ruhskins

I keep looking at the play when Ngata hit RG3 and the way RG3's knee got twisted. I don't care if you are Cam Newton, Russell Wilson (who is way smaller than RG3), Colin K., Big Ben, or any other mobile or running QB, your knee is going to get f'ed up. My point is that whether RG3 is 6'2"/217 lbs. or 6'5"/230 lbs., if your knee bends that way, you are screwed.

I think there is legitimate concern about him having his knee injured again. But plenty of people have come back from injuries such as Rivers back in 2007 or Willis McGahee. People forget how McGahee shredded his knee at the Fiesta Bowl in 2003 (he tore just about every CL there is on his knee). And was able to come back to have a good career.

I would first like to see how he recovers before I make outlandish statements about trading RG3 and keeping Cousins and all the other non-sense you keep hearing.

wilson (5'11" 206) is way smaller than griff (6'2" 217) like mike tyson (5'10" 230) is way smaller than brock osweiler (6'7" 242)

*edit, added heights and weights of these fellas

[Ruhskins]

Originally Posted by los panda

wilson (5'11" 206) is way smaller than griff (6'2" 217) like mike tyson (5'10" 230) is way smaller than brock osweiler (6'7" 242)

*edit, added heights and weights of these fellas

Point taken. Still my argument is that no matter how big or small your body frame is, I think a knee bending the way it shouldn't is going to get injured.

[los panda]

Originally Posted by Ruhskins

Point taken. Still my argument is that no matter how big or small your body frame is, I think a knee bending the way it shouldn't is going to get injured.

i can dig it, it's true

[BigHairedAristocrat]

Originally Posted by Ruhskins

I keep looking at the play when Ngata hit RG3 and the way RG3's knee got twisted. I don't care if you are Cam Newton, Russell Wilson (who is way smaller than RG3), Colin K., Big Ben, or any other mobile or running QB, your knee is going to get f'ed up. My point is that whether RG3 is 6'2"/217 lbs. or 6'5"/230 lbs., if your knee bends that way, you are screwed.

I think there is legitimate concern about him having his knee injured again. But plenty of people have come back from injuries such as Rivers back in 2007 or Willis McGahee. People forget how McGahee shredded his knee at the Fiesta Bowl in 2003 (he tore just about every CL there is on his knee). And was able to come back to have a good career.

I would first like to see how he recovers before I make outlandish statements about trading RG3 and keeping Cousins and all the other non-sense you keep hearing.

I do agree with your point, however, its not just RGIIIs frame - its his style of play. He has a slight frame (in the context of a football player), but he plays like he's the Hulk. He's far too fearless and doesnt have the awareness of his surroundings that Russell Wilson has.

I think wilsons size works to his advantage... he's so small, he's always had to be extremely careful with his body and how he moves, what hits he takes, how he goes down, how he reacts when contacted, etc. If he hadnt learned those skills years ago, he wouldnt have made it this far.

RGIII, on the other hand, has had the body type to be able to deal with the smaller, slower, less powerful defenders he's gone up against in college. This is the NFL. Defenders are smarter, faster, and stronger. RGIII cant "get away" with playing the way he played in college. And its not just a matter of this injury making him "learn his lesson." Its going to take him years to develop the "6th sense," instincts, and muscle memory hell need to have a safer (yet still lethal) game.

I also dont think the comparsions to McGahee and Rivers work. Rivers is a statue of a quarterback. McGahee is a pounder. he doesnt cut and isnt as shifty as RGIII, and never has been. Sure, RGIII can - and will - adjust his style of play, but then he wouldnt quite be the guy we traded for either.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

I do agree with your point, however, its not just RGIIIs frame - its his style of play. He has a slight frame (in the context of a football player), but he plays like he's the Hulk. He's far too fearless and doesnt have the awareness of his surroundings that Russell Wilson has.

I think wilsons size works to his advantage... he's so small, he's always had to be extremely careful with his body and how he moves, what hits he takes, how he goes down, how he reacts when contacted, etc. If he hadnt learned those skills years ago, he wouldnt have made it this far.

RGIII, on the other hand, has had the body type to be able to deal with the smaller, slower, less powerful defenders he's gone up against in college. This is the NFL. Defenders are smarter, faster, and stronger. RGIII cant "get away" with playing the way he played in college. And its not just a matter of this injury making him "learn his lesson." Its going to take him years to develop the "6th sense," instincts, and muscle memory hell need to have a safer (yet still lethal) game.

I also dont think the comparsions to McGahee and Rivers work. Rivers is a statue of a quarterback. McGahee is a pounder. he doesnt cut and isnt as shifty as RGIII, and never has been. Sure, RGIII can - and will - adjust his style of play, but then he wouldnt quite be the guy we traded for either.

I wouldn't say RG3 lacks awareness, I think he's fully aware of what he's doing, he just needs to dial back on being so aggressive and get the heck out of bounds.

McGahee suffered a really major injury in college, torn ACL, LCL, and PCL. I mean his knee was just toasted, for a RB to come back from that is pretty significant. A RB takes a lot more abuse than a QB.