Around the NFL Off - Season style.

[skinsfan69]

Not to mention the ridiculous 50k fine against Ed Reed. They have gone completely over board with the helmet to helmet stuff.

[53Fan]

I tend to agree with CB59 on this. Imo the game has gotten worse under RG not better. And I can think of no "reason" to pay him that amount of money. Would he quit if he were making something more on par with Stern? It would be ok with me if he did....he's not irreplaceable. Not by a longshot. If you have that much money to throw around give the fans a break. That much money to the Commish reminds me of Wallstreet and corrupt companies that give CEO's huge bonus's. But that might be just the way I feel today. :-)

[MTK]

Amazing how successful the league is all in spite of Goodell. If he was truly ruining the game it sure hasn't shown on the bottom line. As usual, nobody likes the boss.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

Amazing how successful the league is all in spite of Goodell. If he was truly ruining the game it sure hasn't shown on the bottom line. As usual, nobody likes the boss.

The league would be successful with or without him. Also Paul T or Pete R was was not this disliked among players.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

The league would be successful with or without him. Also Paul T or Pete R was was not this disliked among players.

They also didn't have to deal with tough issues like concussions/player safety along with social media.

A good commish is the backbone of a strong league. Just look at some of the other commissioners in the big 4. Long term sustained success doesn't happen by accident.

[Skinzman]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

The league would be successful with or without him. Also Paul T or Pete R was was not this disliked among players.

At the time?... Or now?

With approximately 5000 lawsuits by former players or their families against the NFL for actions committed under their stewardship, you cant *honestly* make that statement as it applies to today. The lawsuits dont claim that Goodell was lying to them, they are claiming Pete and Paul were.

Players dont like the direction, but the status quo has the players suing once they retire. Thats not a sustainable model for a professional league.

[NC_Skins]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

We as fans and consumers of his product can say he's doing a terrible job. I think most of the fans don't think much of him and we already know what the players think.

That's cute. You actually think the NFL cares what it's consumers think. You know why they don't care? Because they know you'll continue to feed them buckets full of cash no matter how much you state you don't like them.

If consumers would treat the NFL like any other business, they would listen to its fans but they have no incentive to listen while they are still paying top dollar. Let's be honest, if the Washington Redskins were a favorite restaurant of ours, we all would have stopped eating there years ago due to the shitty service, product and atmosphere they offered. Fans need to start treating football just like the NFL does. A business.

Until that time, nothing is going to change. If you don't like the direction that RG is leading the NFL, stop buying tickets, gear, and other related stuff. Probably never going to happen because even after all we've been through, season ticket holders still lined up in droves to hand over their cash to a owner who simply ran the team into the ground. (see Oakland/Jacksonville/Browns/Cowboys/Bills/etc)

[NC_Skins]

Think about this for a second, if Roger Goodell made 30 million last year, what do you think the owners made?....lol I can assure you it was much greater than 30 million. The owners love RG because he's doing exactly what they want him to. Make the NFL a huge cash cow that will deliver them hand over fist in money. With over 9 billion in revenue a year, he's doing exactly that.

If you want to bitch about the taking the "safety" concern too far, it's being done so due to monetary reasons as well. If they don't start penalizing and fining players, they'll be held liable in future lawsuits showing they knew about the consequences of concussions but did nothing to stop them. It's not about "player safety", if they really cared about safety, they would have never tried bringing in a 18 game season.

[Ruhskins]

While I do not expect people to “like” Roger Goodell, I have to disagree with some of the arguments being made.

The initial question is whether RG is overpaid. I would say probably but maybe not. The NFL is an entertainment business; they are not saving lives or providing a critical need to society. If you view it that way, then just about everyone in the league is overpaid. Then again, his salary is probably similar, if not lower, compared to some of the CEOs/COOs in Wall Street: The Year's Highest Paid CEOs - WSJ.com

Is RG ruining football? That is a resounding NO. The success of the league is most likely measured in two manners: profits and popularity. As I mentioned before, the league is the most profitable compared to the other sports league and it is the most popular in attendance and TV ratings:
sports-recreation-leisure-market-research - Industry Statistics

When Tagliabue left the league in 2006, the NFL had a league revenue of $6 billion dollars, in 2012 that number is estimated at around $9.5 billion. If you think that a person who has increased revenue by about $500 million dollars per year (if my math is correct) is ruining your business, you are not a smart person.
American sports: In a league of its own | The Economist

Has RG been perfect as a commissioner in his tenure? No, and no one is making that argument. Under RG’s watch the following things have happened: Spygate, Bountygate, Capgate, Replacement Refs, the Decline of the Pro Bowl, the Lockout, and the Arbitrariness of Fines/Discipline. RG has been involved in some way, shape, or form in these issues; and has made his share of bad decisions in dealing with them.

Is RG solely to blame for these issues? No. OWNERS, Players, the NFLPA, and Greed has played a big part in these issues.

Who runs the NFL? THE OWNERS. Anything that happens or doesn’t happen in the NFL, is because a majority of the OWNERS agreed (or disagreed) upon it. In a lot of the cases, Goodell is the messenger or enforcer to these decisions. And because of naïve/uninformed fans, he solely takes the heat for it. I think The Lockout was the first time that people actually blamed someone else other than Goodell.

Finally, is he popular among the players? Definitely no, especially if you ask crybabies like James Harrison or Jonathan Vilma (who can b*tch about it on Twitter and Faceboo), who don’t own up to their mistakes and take responsibility for screwing things up (because they are looking out for their own profits). Thanks to Vilma, now every player is going to lawyer up and are going to get away with crap. In the end though, I am sure the OWNERS don’t care whether RG is popular with the players, as long as the profit and ratings keep coming in.

In the end, if you say that RG is overpaid you might be right, but it probably has more to do with how you “feel” about him. If you are saying that RG is ruining football, you are making an uninformed statement, once again based on “feelings” and not facts. I personally dislike a number of things Goodell has made in the past (sweeping Spygate under the rug, keep trying to push the Pro Bowl, and saying everything was okay during the Ref Lockout), but as I’ve argued it is likely that he wasn’t solely responsible for those actions. He is not a dictator.

[CultBrennan59]

Originally Posted by Ruhskins

While I do not expect people to “like” Roger Goodell, I have to disagree with some of the arguments being made.

The initial question is whether RG is overpaid. I would say probably but maybe not. The NFL is an entertainment business; they are not saving lives or providing a critical need to society. If you view it that way, then just about everyone in the league is overpaid. Then again, his salary is probably similar, if not lower, compared to some of the CEOs/COOs in Wall Street: The Year's Highest Paid CEOs - WSJ.com

Is RG ruining football? That is a resounding NO. The success of the league is most likely measured in two manners: profits and popularity. As I mentioned before, the league is the most profitable compared to the other sports league and it is the most popular in attendance and TV ratings:
sports-recreation-leisure-market-research - Industry Statistics

When Tagliabue left the league in 2006, the NFL had a league revenue of $6 billion dollars, in 2012 that number is estimated at around $9.5 billion. If you think that a person who has increased revenue by about $500 million dollars per year (if my math is correct) is ruining your business, you are not a smart person.
American sports: In a league of its own | The Economist

Has RG been perfect as a commissioner in his tenure? No, and no one is making that argument. Under RG’s watch the following things have happened: Spygate, Bountygate, Capgate, Replacement Refs, the Decline of the Pro Bowl, the Lockout, and the Arbitrariness of Fines/Discipline. RG has been involved in some way, shape, or form in these issues; and has made his share of bad decisions in dealing with them.

Is RG solely to blame for these issues? No. OWNERS, Players, the NFLPA, and Greed has played a big part in these issues.

Who runs the NFL? THE OWNERS. Anything that happens or doesn’t happen in the NFL, is because a majority of the OWNERS agreed (or disagreed) upon it. In a lot of the cases, Goodell is the messenger or enforcer to these decisions. And because of naïve/uninformed fans, he solely takes the heat for it. I think The Lockout was the first time that people actually blamed someone else other than Goodell.

Finally, is he popular among the players? Definitely no, especially if you ask crybabies like James Harrison or Jonathan Vilma (who can b*tch about it on Twitter and Faceboo), who don’t own up to their mistakes and take responsibility for screwing things up (because they are looking out for their own profits). Thanks to Vilma, now every player is going to lawyer up and are going to get away with crap. In the end though, I am sure the OWNERS don’t care whether RG is popular with the players, as long as the profit and ratings keep coming in.

In the end, if you say that RG is overpaid you might be right, but it probably has more to do with how you “feel” about him. If you are saying that RG is ruining football, you are making an uninformed statement, once again based on “feelings” and not facts. I personally dislike a number of things Goodell has made in the past (sweeping Spygate under the rug, keep trying to push the Pro Bowl, and saying everything was okay during the Ref Lockout), but as I’ve argued it is likely that he wasn’t solely responsible for those actions. He is not a dictator.

I agree with about 75% of this. The only things/questions I want to point out is while RG has ''helped'' the league in terms of making money, he is also receiving numerous complaints from his fans and his players. I don't recall this being so large when Tagliabue was Commissioner.

Why does NFLN, ESPN, SI, CBSSports, FoxSports, Profootballtalk, Bleacher, and so on always point the blame at Goodell as opposed to "the owners"? Thats where the few people here on this site who are cool with RG should start blaming these numerous sport news outlets. ESPN hiring former players saying "Roger Goodell needs to..." "Roger Goodell is making the NFL into a joke" and so on. Thats whats giving the majority of us the idea that he is to blame.

But also ask yourselves this, is it really the owners to blame or are our sport outlets all wrong? I'll give you all a hint, theres a reason why those people are paid to voice their opinions/beliefs, along with constantly referring to Goodell over the committee or the owners, and no it isn't to save a few less words when speaking or typing.

Also if Goodell really isn't at fault, and its "all the owners faults" (not your post but Giantones), then A) Why do we even have Goodell? B) Why don't we just have all the owners vote on an owner to be president of the NFL so that we can say "its all the owners faults and not that puppet for the owners Goodell"? C) If Goodell really is the voice of the owners, then that job doesn't deserve $30,000,000/year.

I think RG also has some control on this site because it went down again, coincidentally when we were talking about him; Oh wait its the owners fault.

[Ruhskins]

Originally Posted by CultBrennan59

I agree with about 75% of this. The only things/questions I want to point out is while RG has ''helped'' the league in terms of making money, he is also receiving numerous complaints from his fans and his players. I don't recall this being so large when Tagliabue was Commissioner

I would argue that players/fans have more means of communication than they did back Tagliabue's tenure as commissioner, so the complaints are more "visible". Still, if there were truly more complaints and the game was being "ruined" by Goodell (and the OWNERS), then this dissatisfaction would be seen in a drop in profits or TV ratings.

Originally Posted by CultBrennan59

Why does NFLN, ESPN, SI, CBSSports, FoxSports, Profootballtalk, Bleacher, and so on always point the blame at Goodell as opposed to "the owners"? Thats where the few people here on this site who are cool with RG should start blaming these numerous sport news outlets. ESPN hiring former players saying "Roger Goodell needs to..." "Roger Goodell is making the NFL into a joke" and so on. Thats whats giving the majority of us the idea that he is to blame.

It is easier for the sports outlets to blame a single person, rather than a group of people. The way the news media focus on the President during tumultuous/prosperous times, rather than Congress for example.

Originally Posted by CultBrennan59

But also ask yourselves this, is it really the owners to blame or are our sport outlets all wrong? I'll give you all a hint, theres a reason why those people are paid to voice their opinions/beliefs, along with constantly referring to Goodell over the committee or the owners, and no it isn't to save a few less words when speaking or typing.

The sports outlets are going to focus on the commissioner because he is an easy target. Also, the masses tend to have this infatuation with the owners and always seem to side with them knowingly or unknowingly. Example: when a player wants more money and wants a contract, the masses say "he is greedy, wants more money, he should shut up and play"; when a team (OWNER) cuts a player, the masses say: "that's a business minded decision".

Also, as I've said before, the decisions are made when a majority of the owners agree or disagree to something. I believe a lot of these decisions are made behind close doors, so it is easier to put the focus on the messenger.

Originally Posted by CultBrennan59

Also if Goodell really isn't at fault, and its "all the owners faults" (not your post but Giantones), then A) Why do we even have Goodell? B) Why don't we just have all the owners vote on an owner to be president of the NFL so that we can say "its all the owners faults and not that puppet for the owners Goodell"? C) If Goodell really is the voice of the owners, then that job doesn't deserve $30,000,000/year.

I don't know much about business, but I imagine that NFL works in a similar way that a company has a board of trustees or stockholders; and has a CEO or COO to run things. And as I pointed out, a lot of these people get paid more than 30 mil a year.

Originally Posted by CultBrennan59

I think RG also has some control on this site because it went down again, coincidentally when we were talking about him; Oh wait its the owners fault.

Well, unlike Goodell, Matty IS a dictator. And if people don't hear from me ever again, now you know why. :FIREdevil

[CultBrennan59]

Originally Posted by Ruhskins

I would argue that players/fans have more means of communication than they did back Tagliabue's tenure as commissioner, so the complaints are more "visible". Still, if there were truly more complaints and the game was being "ruined" by Goodell (and the OWNERS), then this dissatisfaction would be seen in a drop in profits or TV ratings.



It is easier for the sports outlets to blame a single person, rather than a group of people. The way the news media focus on the President during tumultuous/prosperous times, rather than Congress for example.



The sports outlets are going to focus on the commissioner because he is an easy target. Also, the masses tend to have this infatuation with the owners and always seem to side with them knowingly or unknowingly. Example: when a player wants more money and wants a contract, the masses say "he is greedy, wants more money, he should shut up and play"; when a team (OWNER) cuts a player, the masses say: "that's a business minded decision".

Also, as I've said before, the decisions are made when a majority of the owners agree or disagree to something. I believe a lot of these decisions are made behind close doors, so it is easier to put the focus on the messenger.



I don't know much about business, but I imagine that NFL works in a similar way that a company has a board of trustees or stockholders; and has a CEO or COO to run things. And as I pointed out, a lot of these people get paid more than 30 mil a year.



Well, unlike Goodell, Matty IS a dictator. And if people don't hear from me ever again, now you know why.

Respectable answer. All I'll say in closing, is that whether you like him or not, these fines are ridiculous, and the ridiculous fines have been occuring when Goodell has been in power. Someone said its Ray Anderson, well whether it is all Ray or not at all Ray or partially ray, they need to less ridiculous and consistent!

Hopefully your joking about the Matty thing, because someone called Smootsmack an SS officer, which didn't go over well.

[Ruhskins]

Originally Posted by CultBrennan59

Respectable answer. All I'll say in closing, is that whether you like him or not, these fines are ridiculous, and the ridiculous fines have been occuring when Goodell has been in power. Someone said its Ray Anderson, well whether it is all Ray or not at all Ray or partially ray, they need to less ridiculous and consistent!

Hopefully your joking about the Matty thing, because someone called Smootsmack an SS officer, which didn't go over well.

Ironically, the fines you are complaining about fund the very things that you said RG's salary should go towards.

NFL Charities - Fundraising - Fine Money

And of course I am joking, Matty is a benevolent leader who reminded me of this by sending a shock of electricity through my laptop after my last comment.

[53Fan]

I'm having a hard time understanding how everything RG does wrong or lets say is not popular is the owners fault because they run the league yet RG gets credit for increased revenue between 2006 when Taglibue was commish and 2012....6 years later with RG as commish. Wasn't that expected no matter who the commish was? Did anyone in 2006 expect the most popular sport in America with an extremely strong following expect the league to make less money 6 years later? Given the product you'd have to be pretty inept for that to happen. As NC Skins just stated...people keep coming back basically no matter what. I mean shit...given that clientele any company could increase profits.

[Ruhskins]

Originally Posted by 53Fan

I'm having a hard time understanding how everything RG does wrong or lets say is not popular is the owners fault because they run the league yet RG gets credit for increased revenue between 2006 when Taglibue was commish and 2012....6 years later with RG as commish. Wasn't that expected no matter who the commish was? Did anyone in 2006 expect the most popular sport in America with an extremely strong following expect the league to make less money 6 years later? Given the product you'd have to be pretty inept for that to happen. As NC Skins just stated...people keep coming back basically no matter what. I mean shit...given that clientele any company could increase profits.

You could argue that the league has not done anything so damaging, that would affect their profits and popularity. And what I have been trying to point out that a lot of the decisions made by RG are not made by JUST him. The Owners have a lot of saying on what happens in the league of course. I would say some of the ways that RG has executed/enforced these decisions by the owners are unpopular/wrong/etc.

I think the whole argument of the rising profits since Tagliabue is to counter the argument that Goodell is ruining the league. One could say that Goodell has done a good "caretaker" job, but still he has not/is not ruining the league so far as some argue. I think you make a good point about people coming back to football, I mean you saw that during the Replacement Ref situation.

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

Here's a very telling stat of todays video game league. Matthew Stafford has basically thrown for 5,000 yards two years in a row. His name will be next to Dan Mariono's in the record books.

The masses and the average fans I think enjoy the video game league. I guarantee that if we have had a defensive Super Bowl with a score of 10-7, people would be b*tching left and right about it.