Michael Moore's Latest Target: Your HMO

[MTK]

Originally Posted by Sheriff Gonna Getcha

Did anyone else catch his debate with Sanjay Gupta on Larry King Live tonight?

No, how did it go?

[Sheriff Gonna Getcha]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

No, how did it go?

I only saw the last few seconds and am hoping someone else can fill me in.

[MTK]

Don't help the guy...hell don't even give him the time of day. But I fail to see what a childish retaliation like that accomplishes. Somehow I don't think tough love is going to change most people like that.

[FRPLG]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Don't help the guy...hell don't even give him the time of day. But I fail to see what a childish retaliation like that accomplishes. Somehow I don't think tough love is going to change most people like that.

I tend to agree...I certainly wouldn't have wasted my time by getting in my car and driving back over there. But if he had done that to me he'd have caught quite a reaction in the moment.

I would say that if they get enough dressing-downs that a lot of people might finally get a clue. Not all or even most...but then those who don't we can know simply don't deserve help. I honesetly feel that if you are not willing to help yourself then you don't deserve help from anyone. Not if you aren't ABLE to help yourself but if you don't WANT to. If you aren't willing to help yourself then you can bend over and kiss your own ass for all I care. There are too many people who need help and will do wahetever they can to get it for me to worry about those who just want handouts.

[jsarno]

I wanted to post this last night, but the site went down as I was typing:

This concerned me, speaking about France and Canada’s healthcare:

While patients may not pay for services at the doctor's office, they do pay high taxes to fund such a system, something Gupta said he was concerned that "Sicko" audiences might not realize.



Moore responded by saying Americans pay more in copays, deductibles and insurance premiums. "We [America] have a system built on profit," the moviemaker said.





No "WE" don't. I have a friend that lives in Saskatoon, and she said that they pay over 50% of their salary to taxes for that health care, and if it's life threatening (ie: need surgery NOW), they get put on at least a 6 month waiting list and try to come to America for the surgery instead cause they will die with the healthcare they have up there.

Fact is, there is no perfect health care system anywhere in the world.



I don't know how feasible this is, but if the government does take over, why not circumvent the insurance companies. Really, it's not greedy doctors, or frivolous lawsuits (although that does exist), it's the insurance companies raping the consumers. They are, in affect, a middle man that isn't needed.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by jsarno

I wanted to post this last night, but the site went down as I was typing:

This concerned me, speaking about France and Canada’s healthcare:

While patients may not pay for services at the doctor's office, they do pay high taxes to fund such a system, something Gupta said he was concerned that "Sicko" audiences might not realize.



Moore responded by saying Americans pay more in copays, deductibles and insurance premiums. "We [America] have a system built on profit," the moviemaker said.





No "WE" don't. I have a friend that lives in Saskatoon, and she said that they pay over 50% of their salary to taxes for that health care, and if it's life threatening (ie: need surgery NOW), they get put on at least a 6 month waiting list and try to come to America for the surgery instead cause they will die with the healthcare they have up there.

Fact is, there is no perfect health care system anywhere in the world.



I don't know how feasible this is, but if the government does take over, why not circumvent the insurance companies. Really, it's not greedy doctors, or frivolous lawsuits (although that does exist), it's the insurance companies raping the consumers. They are, in affect, a middle man that isn't needed.

Please give use the numbers that you have to show that the insurance companies are raping the consumers. Facts, I don't think you have them but if you do please lets us know.

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by firstdown

Please give use the numbers that you have to show that the insurance companies are raping the consumers. Facts, I don't think you have them but if you do please lets us know.

Are you serious? You think the insurance companies are completely honest? You must either work for an insurance company, or are nieve. There have been plenty of documentations over the years of this. While I do not have numbers, I won't even search for them cause my comment is common knowledge.

I am sorry that sounds rude. After proof reading it, I thought it sounded rude. That is not my intent. I am just trying to point out that it's common knowledge.

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Don't help the guy...hell don't even give him the time of day. But I fail to see what a childish retaliation like that accomplishes. Somehow I don't think tough love is going to change most people like that.

ignoring it is condoning it. Maybe next time he will think twice about treating someone like that. Maybe he'll think...damn, I guess I pissed that guy off, maybe I shouldn't talk to people's wives like that...maybe the next time some guy will knock my teeth out instead.
But to ignore it, is condoning it, and I refuse to allow that.
My wife was taking him up on his offer of "will work for food". She reached out to help a man that she thought was in geniune need, turns out he's just a leech on society. He could have just said "no thanks" and nothing would have happened.
I'm shocked to realize that there are people out there that aren't willing to put a stop to misbehavior.

[gibbsisgod]

I will never forget about a somewhat simialr instance that happened to my father one day. After leaving the grocery store, we pulled up to a stop light and there was a homeless guy there. He starts begging my dad for some money through the window. My dad told him to get into the bed of the truck and we would take him to McDonalds and get him whatever meal he wanted. He basically told my dad to Eff off. Told my dad he didn't like McDonalds and asked if he could just have the money so he could eat somewhere else.

This is why I don't even give these people the time of day. I donate to charities and churches but I will never give money to somebody who stands on the side of the road asking for a handout.

[MTK]

I'd like to see some studies or research on this issue. I see a lot of strong assumptions being made and frankly I think people are quite biased in thinking that most homeless people are just lazy drunks or drug addicts looking for handouts.

[70Chip]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

I'd like to see some studies or research on this issue. I see a lot of strong assumptions being made and frankly I think people are quite biased in thinking that most homeless people are just lazy drunks or drug addicts looking for handouts.

Even the most bleeding heart liberal on the planet will admit that drugs/alcohol are nearly inseperable from the problem of homelessness. Someone mentioned the Vietnam Vets earlier. Even for them the trauma of combat was probably not enough to make them dysfunctional. You add alcohol or opiates, though, and they go downhill very quickly.

And it's not just homelessness. If you were to remove drug and alcohol abuse (and I mean the severe cases, not the borderline ones on their way to being severe, hmmm, hmmm), you could watch all manner of social ills disappear like that proverbial fart in the wind. Joseph Califano who worked for LBJ and is a Democrat is very strong on this issue. If you are interested in some statistics that will knock your socks off, you might search on him.

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by 70Chip

Even the most bleeding heart liberal on the planet will admit that drugs/alcohol are nearly inseperable from the problem of homelessness. Someone mentioned the Vietnam Vets earlier. Even for them the trauma of combat was probably not enough to make them dysfunctional. You add alcohol or opiates, though, and they go downhill very quickly.

And it's not just homelessness. If you were to remove drug and alcohol abuse (and I mean the severe cases, not the borderline ones on their way to being severe, hmmm, hmmm), you could watch all manner of social ills disappear like that proverbial fart in the wind. Joseph Califano who worked for LBJ and is a Democrat is very strong on this issue. If you are interested in some statistics that will knock your socks off, you might search on him.

Unfortunately, we don't live in a vacuum. Even the most capable, the most intellectual, and the strongest among us have felt life's pressure to the extent it has driven us to behave in unseemly ways. What I'm getting at is removing drugs from our society won't elimate homelessness or any other social ill. Drugs and alchohol probably exacerbate homelessness, no doubt, but I don't think it disappears like a fart in the wind.

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

I'd like to see some studies or research on this issue. I see a lot of strong assumptions being made and frankly I think people are quite biased in thinking that most homeless people are just lazy drunks or drug addicts looking for handouts.

Well, as you can already tell from other people's experiences posted here, many homeless are just looking for one thing...money. Why not food? Why not water? Why ONLY money? Cause they are doing something with that money. Some know that they can get $200-$1000 a day in begging and they will go into the alley, retreive their Mercedes and drive home. Some need the money to afford their alcohol or drugs. Almost all use it in an inappropriate manner. Fact is, you give them what they want, and you are making the situation worse. There are plenty of homeless shelters across this country. Why is it they are too proud to get a warm cup of soup, or nice sandwich, but they aren't too proud to beg on the corner and not work for food or money.
Since when did we become a country of "If you don't want to help yourself, we'll keep helping you over and over again until you realize that you don't need to do anything to deserve help?"

[dmek25]

i agree with 12th. all of us, with one wrong decision( or unlucky break) could end up like this. i came up thru the ranks, living like i never thought i could. maybe the same can be said for them

[dmek25]

i think its funny that it seems like you have more compassion for animals, then you do your fellow humans