Smoot lays the smack down (Skins/Bills) - mattyk edition

[MTK]

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

Unfortunately you are right, but I don't think he's worth any type of major contract.

Got news for ya, if we don't pay him someone else will. I wouldn't break the bank on him, but he's certainly worthy of a top 5-10 contract for his position.

[SBXVII]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

Well if you let him go that's another hole to fill, because there's nobody else on this roster that is starting caliber at his spot.

I like Landry, he's a beast. But he's really only good at being a Strong Safety stopping the run or rushing the QB. He's a huge liability in coverage. What to do with him? I honestly don't know. Either play to his strengths or trade him for someone who can cover.

[celts32]

Firing people is not the answer! Redskins fans hate and criticize Snyder but so many of them are even more impulsive and impatient then he is. Yesterday was as ugly as it gets but you don't fire people a year and a half into a rebuild...

[SmootSmack]

Fans are so quick to pull the trigger, but never in positive way. Had we won 23-0 yesterday there would probably not have been any "We need to lock up Beck long term! "Kyle has to be named the official successor now!!!" "What are good hotels in Indianapolis? I'm booking my tickets for the Super Bowl TODAY!!!!" "Whatever Fred Davis makes we should triple it now!!!!" threads. But when they lose it's a fire sale.

[Ruhskins]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Fans are so quick to pull the trigger, but never in positive way. Had we won 23-0 yesterday there would probably not have been any "We need to lock up Beck long term! "Kyle has to be named the official successor now!!!" "What are good hotels in Indianapolis? I'm booking my tickets for the Super Bowl TODAY!!!!" "Whatever Fred Davis makes we should triple it now!!!!" threads. But when they lose it's a fire sale.

When was the last time the fans made sense? Can't expect much logic after a shutout and a three-game losing streak. But agreed, firing Shanahan is pretty ridiculous at this point.

[NC_Skins]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Fans are so quick to pull the trigger, but never in positive way. Had we won 23-0 yesterday there would probably not have been any "We need to lock up Beck long term! "Kyle has to be named the official successor now!!!" "What are good hotels in Indianapolis? I'm booking my tickets for the Super Bowl TODAY!!!!" "Whatever Fred Davis makes we should triple it now!!!!" threads. But when they lose it's a fire sale.

I am not one of those fans. I've said from the beginning about LL and Hall and my thoughts about the two. I've also stated that we have no better option at this point and need to roll with them. My thoughts wouldn't have changed if we did win 23-0, and LL was a beast. I don't think one good year ended early by injury is a reason to lock up a person to a huge contract. I'm in the mindset that consistency should play a part in contracts, not flash in the pans. I understand you probably weren't talking to me directly with the quote, but I just wanted to respond anyway.


Also, I seriously want to punch any fan in the nuts that is calling for the Shanahans to be fired. I hate fans like that, and they are the exact clone of Snyder. You know, the guy they spend endless amounts of time hating and despising, yet they are JUST like him to a T.

[CrustyRedskin]

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;854171]Fans are so quick to pull the trigger, but never in positive way. Had we won 23-0 yesterday there would probably not have been any "We need to lock up Beck long term! "Kyle has to be named the official successor now!!!" "What are good hotels in Indianapolis? I'm booking my tickets for the Super Bowl TODAY!!!!" "Whatever Fred Davis makes we should triple it now!!!!" threads. But when they lose it's a fire sale.[/QUOTE]

Its more like a garage sale at a trailor park. Just looking for a little consistencey, well I've got my wish cause the skins consistantly lose. BTW did anyone ever notice Hassnots D track record, everywhere he has gone something bad has happened.

[Chico23231]

Get some guys back from injury, continue to upgrade starting postions (ILB, Oline, QB) while building depth, draft a QB or a couple, maybe add a Vet QB to the roster. Keep the coaching staff intact...we will be fine. We are rebuilding.

[firstdown]

I think I need to start smoking crack.

[SmootSmack]

How much OL depth do teams really have? I you lose two starters and it's pretty inevitable you're going to have some start some playing some retreads or inexperienced guys.

[GMScud]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

How much OL depth do teams really have? I you lose two starters and it's pretty inevitable you're going to have some start some playing some retreads or inexperienced guys.

Yeah but we cut bait with a guy like Artis Hicks for who? 7th round rookies? I understand we want youth, but keeping 8 or 9 receivers at the expense of O-line depth when the guys we have are so bad/young is not smart. And we're seeing it fully exposed now. And those are Mike's decisions.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by GMScud

Yeah but we cut bait with a guy like Artis Hicks for who? 7th round rookies? I understand we want youth, but keeping 8 or 9 receivers at the expense of O-line depth when the guys we have are so bad/young is not smart. And we're seeing it fully exposed now. And those are Mike's decisions.

Problem is OL really offer nothing other than depth when they're not starting. Meaning you can't use OL for special teams like you can with skill players. And so, do you keep an Artis Hicks or do you keep a guy like Maurice Hurt who can hopefully be developed?

It's a fine line in my opinion. You have to be prepared for injuries but you can't really plan your team expecting so many guys to get hurt.

[That Guy]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

How much OL depth do teams really have? I you lose two starters and it's pretty inevitable you're going to have some start some playing some retreads or inexperienced guys.

phi normally keeps 10 and has 8 that can start without giving up 9 sacks.

we were short 3 backups coming into the season. cook and locklear are the only backups we really have, and they're fairly low tier #2s. Ideally brown would be our 6th OL and not starting, and chester wouldn't be starting either.

I was shocked we didn't sign anyone good in the offseason (if anyone cares to check). If we got a new RG/RT and pushed those two to backupp status, we'd still need another backup OG and an upgrade to cook.

You can get by with average WRs and a decent QB if the line is good. 9 sacks and 30 yards rushing or whatever it was is beyond pathetic though.

[sportscurmudgeon]

Unaccustomed as I am to being part of the optimism faction here, let me give this a try...

A large part of the distress that folks here are expressing in completely unambiguous terms comes from the fact that those same folks allowed themselves to harbor unrealistic expectations in the past. Let me give a few examples:

Jamaal Brown: When he signed on here, there was euphoria because the Skins got a Pro Bowl caliber tackle to play opposite the #4 pick in the draft at the other tackle and as soon as Brown worked out the kinks from an injury he would resume that level of play and even surpass it. Those two were going to make Redskin fans forget about Lachey and Jacoby as offensive tackles. Excuse me, Jamaal Brown had a good year on a very good team and received more accolades than his play on the field merited; then he got hurt; then the Redskins signed a hurt player with exaggerated press clippings. Today we have folks saying he sucks. Actually, he never returned to the level he had achieved prior to his injury; he does not suck; he is merely average to slightly below average for an OT.

LaRon Landry: People love his big highlight reel head shots. Trouble is, that is all he has in his game bag. He has NEVER been able to cover a turtle with a mattress blanket; he spends waaay too much time chasing someone who has the ball into the end zone. (Remember DeSean Jackson on Play One of the 59-28 debacle last year...?) He has never been held accountable for giving up big plays as a safety so all he does is continue to do the only thing he knows how to do - - make the highlight reel with a headshot. That is your "safety"; he is the guy who gives up TDs when he makes a mistake; he makes lots of mistakes. But it is the fanbase who has adored him for his big hits who feels the pain because they expect him to actually be an effective safety and he is not. [By the way, isn't this Landry's contract year? I think it is. Right now, would you give him a "payday" and a 5-year deal? I would not.]


THE QUARTERBACKS: When Mike Shanahan was hired fans went overboard on his "offensive genius" credentials. Make no mistake, Mike Shanahan has a good offensive mind, but a large component of his "genius reputation" comes from having Steve Young as his QB in SF and John Elway as his QB in Denver. He did not pick either one; he did not groom either one; he designed plays those guys could execute to beat the other team. He had no QB when he got here; he tried to get one and it did not work; he now has two guys who would need to improve to become journeymen. It isn't their fault they aren't stars; it isn't Mike Shanahan's either. Fans expected waaay too much from day one. By the way, the last true "Franchise QB" the Redskins had was Sonny Jurgensen. Sonny is in his 70s now; nevertheless, if he had six weeks to prepare and get his arm loose, he might be able to match either of the current dudes in one of those QB Skills Contests...


Kyle Shanahan: He got the OC job in Houston because Gary Kubiak had been Mike Shanahan's OC in Denver since forever and there Kyle had a better-than-average QB and a STUD WR to play with. Fans bought into the Kyle-hype; he had accomplished good things in Houston; he had the "Shanahan genes"; he would work magic. Right now, he is underachieving even considering the limited talent he has to work with here to the point that I am not sure he would be able to get another OC position in the NFL if Dad were to can his butt at the end of this season. BTW, that is one of the best arguments to demonstrate why nepotism is always a bad idea...

Ryan Torrain: He never was much of an all-around back. He had two good games and fans gave him a nickname and started predicting 1500-yard seasons for him in the Mike Shanahan running game. Just as offenses work better with Steve Young and John Elway at QB, running games do better with a competent OL. And that leads me to...


The OL: And this OL is not competent and don't blame the injuries. The OL has stunk here for about 5-7 years and it now has a bunch of young guys playing there who aren't very good instead of a bunch of old guys who aren't very good.


WRs: When was the last time the Skins had a WR that made other defensive coordinators think about building their game plan to contain him? Gary Clark? Charlie Taylor? Bobby Mitchell? But let one of these current guys go and make two tough catches in a single game and the fans are ready to nominate him for the Pro Bowl. Expectations are waaay out of line.


Yesterday the Redskins wet the bed. The best thing to say about that game was that it was not one of the nationally televised games so it was not seen in sixty or seventy NFL markets. The team performed badly on the field; the game plan was certainly not effective - - that could be due to bad play on the field or bad game planning. The team has lost 3 in a row and has been less than exciting in any of those 3 games.

If this team does not come out with plenty of emotion to start this week's game, then I will hang a lot of responsibility on the coaches for not finding the right buttons to push. Even playing with emotion, this team can lose next weekend; but there MUST be some fire and brimstone on the field for the first couple of series next week. THERE MUST BE!!!

[Ruhskins]

Originally Posted by sportscurmudgeon

LaRon Landry: People love his big highlight reel head shots. Trouble is, that is all he has in his game bag. He has NEVER been able to cover a turtle with a mattress blanket; he spends waaay too much time chasing someone who has the ball into the end zone. (Remember DeSean Jackson on Play One of the 59-28 debacle last year...?) He has never been held accountable for giving up big plays as a safety so all he does is continue to do the only thing he knows how to do - - make the highlight reel with a headshot. That is your "safety"; he is the guy who gives up TDs when he makes a mistake; he makes lots of mistakes. But it is the fanbase who has adored him for his big hits who feels the pain because they expect him to actually be an effective safety and he is not. [By the way, isn't this Landry's contract year? I think it is. Right now, would you give him a "payday" and a 5-year deal? I would not.]

I think Laron Landry can thank D. Hall for getting him off the hook on this one, because very few people criticize Landry for giving up big plays. On a serious note, I think our defensive backs continue to have communication issues, hence the example from yesterday when Fletcher went off on Landry for a blown coverage. I know at the beginning of the season, communication was an issue due to the lack of practice/playing time. But now Haslett needs to figure out how to make that unit work.