Robert Griffin III ready to turn career around with Redskins in 2015

[30gut]

Interesting comments I heard from the weekend training camp from ESPN that were lost in the scuffle...

Louis Riddick: On the relationship between Jay and Griff

"Its the most important relationship in the building between your starting QB and whoever it is that is directly responsible for his performance on the field, in this case which is a combination of the HC...and the playcaller.

These 2 have to be on the same page not just as far as what it will take for RGIII to succeed on the football field but they really have to be trusting one another. RGIII has to believe that Jay has his best interest in mind; that when he's not in his presence he [Jay] is still backing him he still building him up saying 'this is my guy' and not sitting there saying 'man I hope I can get that other QB in there because I don't really trust this guy..."

John Keim: On Jay and Griffin relationship

"A more relaxed relationship then last year...But one thing that you do know is Gruden didn't have a lot of belief in Griffin and I think Griffin felt that. And that was one of the things I talked to people around the league about "How important is [belief from the HC/playcaller to the QB]that?" I think its very important"



Either way it good to see an ostensible shift in "belief" from last year.
If its genuine then I can see Griffin having a bounce back season, if its not then it will be what I suspect...

[KI Skins Fan]

I think you're putting the cart before the horse. If RGIII goes out and stinks up the joint, why should Jay Gruden have any confidence in him? IMO, Griffin first has to show significant improvement in games.

You can quote all the football analysts in the world on this point and I'll just tell you that I think they're wrong. There are lots of successful people who believed in themselves when nobody else believed in them.

I don't think that RGIII expects Jay to believe in him before he has shown Jay how much he has improved. I also think it's ridiculous of the analysts you quoted to even vaguely suggest that RGIII needs his HC to believe in him before he has earned that trust.

Nope, don't try to put the responsibility for RGIII's success or failure on Jay. It seems to me that Jay is doing everything he can to help RGIII be successful. RGIII's actual on the field performance will determine his future and, when he is on the field, it is in RGIII's hands alone.

[Skinzman]

Originally Posted by KI Skins Fan

I think you're putting the cart before the horse. If RGIII goes out and stinks up the joint, why should Jay Gruden have any confidence in him? IMO, Griffin first has to show significant improvement in games.

You can quote all the football analysts in the world on this point and I'll just tell you that I think they're wrong. There are lots of successful people who believed in themselves when nobody else believed in them.

I don't think that RGIII expects Jay to believe in him before he has shown Jay how much he has improved. I also think it's ridiculous of the analysts you quoted to even vaguely suggest that RGIII needs his HC to believe in him before he has earned that trust.

Nope, don't try to put the responsibility for RGIII's success or failure on Jay. It seems to me that Jay is doing everything he can to help RGIII be successful. RGIII's actual on the field performance will determine his future and, when he is on the field, it is in RGIII's hands alone.

If thats the case, then developing players would never happen. It is the job of the coaches to build up players and put them in positions to succeed. If that player still fails, then move on. What you are describing is a scenario where coaches dont matter. Where we can describe Jim Zorn and Joe Gibbs as equals, since its up to the players to succeed despite their coach. Im willing to go out on a limb and say that a lot of players succeeded because of Joe Gibbs. Not because Joe Gibbs wrote them off and they succeeded anyways.

Why should Jay have confidence in RG3?... Because he is the HC and no other reason. If a coach says to himself that Im going to let the players fail because its not my job to help them succeed, then he shouldnt be a coach.

[KI Skins Fan]

Originally Posted by Skinzman

If thats the case, then developing players would never happen. It is the job of the coaches to build up players and put them in positions to succeed. If that player still fails, then move on. What you are describing is a scenario where coaches dont matter. Where we can describe Jim Zorn and Joe Gibbs as equals, since its up to the players to succeed despite their coach. Im willing to go out on a limb and say that a lot of players succeeded because of Joe Gibbs. Not because Joe Gibbs wrote them off and they succeeded anyways.

Why should Jay have confidence in RG3?... Because he is the HC and no other reason. If a coach says to himself that Im going to let the players fail because its not my job to help them succeed, then he shouldnt be a coach.

I wrote this in my post: "It seems to me that Jay is doing everything he can to help RGIII be successful." Did you miss that part?

This discussion isn't about developing a player. The player is being well-coached. This is about the supposed need for the HC to "believe" in a player who has been the starting QB for three seasons and has not performed well for the last two seasons. I say at this point it's up to that player to show the HC something he can believe in - that is, some on the field results of the coaching he's received. Then, perhaps the coach can start to believe in him. That is, if the coach doesn't already believe in the player which is something only the coach can truly know.

[Skinzman]

Originally Posted by KI Skins Fan

I wrote this in my post: "It seems to me that Jay is doing everything he can to help RGIII be successful." Did you miss that part?

This discussion isn't about developing a player. The player is being well-coached. This is about the supposed need for the HC to "believe" in a player who has been the starting QB for three seasons and has not performed well for the last two seasons. I say at this point it's up to that player to show the HC something he can believe in - that is, some on the field results of the coaching he's received. Then, perhaps the coach can start to believe in him. That is, if the coach doesn't already believe in the player which is something only the coach can truly know.

He is being well coached... now. And he is showing improvement. Enough improvement to keep him around in the future? That will only be shown during the real games. But to say Jay did everything to help him when he didnt even hire a QB coach in year one is laughable. I personally think Cavanaugh is having the biggest impression on RG3, not Jay. I think not having a QB coach has affected both RG3 and KC, since KC, in year 4, seems to be the same player he was as a senior in college.

And I still say its not up to the players to show the coach anything before the coach tries. The coach should be trying regardless. If it doesnt work out, move on, but the coach has to try regardless otherwise he is a failure of a coach. Some players will never get it, but the coach has to put in the time anyways. Why? Because they are getting paid millions per year to do just that.

I am expecting Jay (or any coach for that matter) to try to put the players in the best possible scenario to succeed. Again... If the player still fails, move on, but try first. Its his job to do that regardless.

[JoeRedskin]

It's some of both.

Players have to be able to demonstrate the ability to learn and accept coaching. At times last year, it was clear RGIII just was not doing what the coaches wanted him to do. There are at least two examples that come to mind (the play in practice from my earlier post, the TD at the end of the half in the Rams game that was called back) where RGIII just outright ignored things he was specifically told to do by JG. Then there's the whole "taking 5 step drops when he should be taking 7 steps" thing. If I'm Gruden and the QB is just flat out ignoring me or unable to perform basic, fundamental QB skills, damn right I have a trust issue. Hard to believe in a guy who seems unable and/or unwilling to do the tasks you ask him to do. Especially when his f-ups could cost you your job.

On the other hand, if a coach insists on shoving a round peg into square hole, the he is going to be doomed and the peg is going to be ruined. JG needs to coach RGIII as he is, not how Gruden believes a QB should be. Gibbs completely revamped his offensive thinking to take advantage of a big OL and John Riggins. Gruden probably can't and shouldn't rewrite his playbook to tailor it to RGIII - otherwise its the R/O all over again. For RGIII to succeed, he needs to develop in the pocket, but Gruden needs to find a way to help him with that transition and take advantage of his unique skills.

It's both of them. In the short term, RGIII needs to step up and make "the ordinary" plays routinely. In the long term, Gruden needs to give him room to do that and to be flexible enough to maximize the skills of all his players.

[KI Skins Fan]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

In the short term, RGIII needs to step up and make "the ordinary" plays routinely. In the long term, Gruden needs to give him room to do that and to be flexible enough to maximize the skills of all his players.

I couldn't agree with you more. I don't understand the complaint that JG doesn't call the same plays for RGIII that he does for the other two QB's. First, let's see RGIII execute the plays that are called, whatever they may be.

[30gut]

Gotta keep it short b/c its movie night with the kids

Originally Posted by KI Skins Fan

I think you're putting the cart before the horse.

I guess this is meant for me? It's impossible to put the cart before the horse when it comes to believing in your players. Belief is the first step, because at some point all your players will be new to you.

Also, you support you players when they struggle. If a coach is going to get frustrated and impatient when players struggle then they might be in the wrong business because players are going to struggle. Adversity is par for the course.

Did you catch the Hardknocks? Bill O'brien's opening speech to his coaches represents how I think a HC needs to think:

Originally Posted by O'Brien

~Every player that is out there all 90 of them that are out there are players that I want for the 2015 season. When you guys [coaches] effing show up to practice tomorrow they [the players] better be ready to effing go.

Sure sounds like believes in his players and holds his coaches accountable.

Nope, don't try to put the responsibility for RGIII's success or failure on Jay. It seems to me that Jay is doing everything he can to help RGIII be successful. RGIII's actual on the field performance will determine his future and, when he is on the field, it is in RGIII's hands alone.

Of course the HC and coaches in general are responsible for the performance of their players (especially players that have already achieved at a high level). If you really want to make the argument that they're not then we shouldn't have a discussion because it means to me that you don't believe or respect in the value of coaching.
Griffin's success or failure is without a doubt linked to Jay's ability as a coach and that is true for any coach and player across the league.

Also, you might not have noticed but there are huge changes being made for the team and for the offense. If everything last year was right from a coaching standpoint then why such drastic changes?

[DYoungJelly]

Originally Posted by 30gut

Gotta keep it short b/c its movie night with the kids

Thank you.

[SirLK26]

^I'm pretty sure 30gut is this guy.



J/k, I enjoy his posts.

[JoeRedskin]

Interesting take by Keim in response to "What would it take to make Kirk the starter":

I think they're trying really hard to see if it can work with Robert Griffin III. They've clearly done all they can in the offseason to restore confidence (he says he never lost any) and make him comfortable. I was a big believer in having an open competition, but also know that would have led to the circus returning to town. Kirk Cousins looked sharp Thursday, albeit vs. backups. Griffin had ups and downs vs. the starters; loved the bootleg and his ability to throw deep off play-action. But I liked the way Cousins handled the pocket most of the time. I'll be curious to see what happens if Cousins clearly outplays Griffin in the preseason -- and then Griffin struggles early in the regular season. If they don't make a move after, say, a couple games then you have to wonder what else is at play. The problem for Cousins remains: interceptions. They'll have to build up that trust that he'll improve in that area. And they'll have to convince others in the organization it would be a good move.

Washington Redskins mailbag: What it would take to start Kirk Cousins - Washington Redskins Blog - ESPN

Watching them play, and watching the plays called, it is clear that a different game is being called when KC is QB. It is also obvious (to me) that he is much more decisive than RGIII, that the drop is right, and that the ball comes out on time. Which is great, except he often, very decisively, throws an interception, and then another, and another, and so on.

RGIII, on the other hand, has the better arm and accuracy (generally), but if the first read isn't there (and sometimes when it is), he just isn't decisive. Even with the better arm, the ball just doesn't come out on time or as fast as it does with Kirk. This was again evident on a couple of throws Thursday.

It's so tough, I like both of them a lot and, if we could just melt them down into one guy, we could have something. Of course, if we could, and with our luck, we would get an indecisive QB, with no pocket presence or accuracy and who through a pick every other pass attempt.

[30gut]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

Washington Redskins mailbag: What it would take to start Kirk Cousins - Washington Redskins Blog - ESPN

Watching them play, and watching the plays called, it is clear that a different game is being called when KC is QB. It is also obvious (to me) that he is much more decisive than RGIII, that the drop is right, and that the ball comes out on time. Which is great, except he often, very decisively, throws an interception, and then another, and another, and so on.

Yeah I noticed the difference in playcalling. We aren't the only ones who noticed the difference there was an post game article that made mention (hogshaven?) of the difference. But who knows what the reasons are there could be many. *Shrugs* Its only the first preseason game plenty of time to get Griff reps with the play concepts that Cousins ran.

I do agree that 100% Griffin should have got more reps. I don't really care what other people around the league are doing. I only care about what makes sense for this team; and it makes sense to get Griffin more reps.

[Bucket]

Originally Posted by 30gut

Yeah I noticed the difference in playcalling. We aren't the only ones who noticed the difference there was an post game article that made mention (hogshaven?) of the difference. But who knows what the reasons are there could be many. *Shrugs* Its only the first preseason game plenty of time to get Griff reps with the play concepts that Cousins ran.

I do agree that 100% Griffin should have got more reps. I don't really care what other people around the league are doing. I only care about what makes sense for this team; and it makes sense to get Griffin more reps.

I'm going out on a limb here. Play calling was different because they need to work on RG3 weakness. Throwing from the pocket and situational downs.

I'm sure we will see read option passes and rollout sin real games

[30gut]

Originally Posted by Bucket

I'm going out on a limb here. Play calling was different because they need to work on RG3 weakness. Throwing from the pocket and situational downs.

I'm sure we will see read option passes and rollout sin real games

*Shrugs* Your speculation about the play calling could be right, who knows? I can think of a bunch of reasons, it could be as simple as Jay-McVay are evaluating ~45ish players and are looking for specific situations to put on film from Scherff to Moses to Matt Jones to Roberts etc.

Still, I would like to see Robert get more reps with similar play concepts that Kirk had in the Browns game. Who knows maybe we'll see them tomorrow night?

[Chico23231]

Originally Posted by 30gut

*Shrugs* Your speculation about the play calling could be right, who knows? I can think of a bunch of reasons, it could be as simple as Jay-McVay are evaluating ~45ish players and are looking for specific situations to put on film from Scherff to Moses to Matt Jones to Roberts etc.

Still, I would like to see Robert get more reps with similar play concepts that Kirk had in the Browns game. Who knows maybe we'll see them tomorrow night?

30, whats you opinion of Scherff and Moses on the right so far? What I saw in camp...Moses was holding his own against the Houston players