Updated: Discuss our Backup QB Situation (formerly Byron Leftwich)

[irish]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Ryan: 16 TDs, 11 INTs, 87.7 rating, when asked to throw the ball 30 or more times he was 1-4

Flacco: 14 TDs, 12 INTs, 80.3 rating, when asked to throw the ball 30 or more times he was 0-3

Campbell: 13 TDs, 6 INTs, 84.3 rating, when asked to throw the ball 30 or more times he was 4-2

So it's not like these guys were sooo much better than Campbell

Stats are nice and JCs stats compare well but now Flacco & Ryan have taken their teams to the playoffs and won. JC hasnt taken his team anywhere. I think when you look at the talent all three have to work with that JC has the most and still cant score or get the team over the hump. Right now Flacco & Ryan are way ahead of JC on the development scale and JC has a bunch more years in the league than they do.

[irish]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Yes, you're entitled to your opinion, but it's still total bullshit that you would say this.

You have no idea if this is true. It's just the only thing you cling to in the hopes that you might be right about Campbell.

I actually think seeing the field is one of his biggest strengths. But what do I know, I've only looked at every play this season twice plus. Clearly, your shot-in-the-dark assumptions are more accurate than this.

I am clinging to my views of JC like you are. Its common knowledge & discussion that JC locks on to receivers and from what I know a QB does that because he cant see the field well to look off a receiver and come back to him.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by irish

Stats are nice and JCs stats compare well but now Flacco & Ryan have taken their teams to the playoffs and won. JC hasnt taken his team anywhere. I think when you look at the talent all three have to work with that JC has the most and still cant score or get the team over the hump. Right now Flacco & Ryan are way ahead of JC on the development scale and JC has a bunch more years in the league than they do.

I see what you're saying but

-I would argue that Matt Ryan may actually have as much talent, and he didn't win in the playoffs

-I would also argue that the Ravens took Flacco took to the playoffs, not the other way around

[TheMalcolmConnection]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

I see what you're saying but

-I would argue that Matt Ryan may actually have as much talent, and he didn't win in the playoffs

-I would also argue that the Ravens took Flacco took to the playoffs, not the other way around

Exactly. It always seems like Flacco's stats are something like 11/27, 114 yards, 1 INT. He typically didn't lose the game for them, but he damn sure didn't win it.

[53Fan]

Originally Posted by TheMalcolmConnection

Exactly. It always seems like Flacco's stats are something like 11/27, 114 yards, 1 INT. He typically didn't lose the game for them, but he damn sure didn't win it.

It was kind of a Trent Dilfer type contribution. I'm sure JC would of been in the playoffs too if he played for the Ravens.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by irish

I am clinging to my views of JC like you are. Its common knowledge & discussion that JC locks on to receivers and from what I know a QB does that because he cant see the field well to look off a receiver and come back to him.

It's not common knowledge. You either made it up or heard it from someone that made it up. Either way, since you didn't cite a source, you're endorsing the lack of knowledge.

If the source is an unqualified friend or co-worker, then you're probably better off not citing it.

[irish]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

It's not common knowledge. You either made it up or heard it from someone that made it up. Either way, since you didn't cite a source, you're endorsing the lack of knowledge.

If the source is an unqualified friend or co-worker, then you're probably better off not citing it.

I guess me, my fan friends, and most media i read/hear who say he does lock on to receivers are as expert as you and yours who say he doesnt.

[irish]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

I see what you're saying but

-I would argue that Matt Ryan may actually have as much talent, and he didn't win in the playoffs

-I would also argue that the Ravens took Flacco took to the playoffs, not the other way around

You seem to dismiss that Flacco & Ryan could have gone in and screwed up but they didnt. Had they screwed up their teams wouldnt have made the playoffs.

[44ever]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

I see what you're saying but

-I would also argue that the Ravens took Flacco took to the playoffs, not the other way around

Nice perspective on Flacco

If JC has a concerning weakness it may be the inability to sense pressure. But I'm still not completly convinsed of this yet. It could be other contributing factors.

[BigHairedAristocrat]

I dont get the disagreement that JC has a tendancy to lock onto receivers? It was mentioned in his profile prior to the 2005 NFL draft (although this is not uncommon in college QBs), its been mentioned in the media countless times as one of his tendancies, and its blatantly obvious when watching games on TV that he does it quite a bit. its not hard to see - its not like hes sneaky about it: you see his entire head pointed at the guy hes going to throw to during the receivers entire route.

This isnt a tangible statistic where someone can say "Jason campbell does it x% while some other QB does it y%... but its an obvious problem that has plagued him most of his career. Some can make excuses (perhaps even legitimate ones) that he stares down his receivers because: 1) he doesnt trust them to run their routes, and 2) he's had to learn so many new systems he's never comfortable with the one he's in - but theres no denying that the tendancy itself exists.

[KLHJ2]

Originally Posted by irish

I guess me, my fan friends, and most media i read/hear who say he does lock on to receivers are as expert as you and yours who say he doesnt.

Jim Zorn says it in a few press conferences. The first of which is on September 5th 2008 right after we played the Giants.

Redskins TV

[53Fan]

I think JC locked on to the primary receiver at the beginning of the year and then started checking down way to fast later on. It could be from not having any time due to the o-line play or it could be from it being drilled into his head to checkdown. Either way, I would think it is something he can adjust. If not, then there is a problem. We'll see.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

I dont get the disagreement that JC has a tendancy to lock onto receivers? It was mentioned in his profile prior to the 2005 NFL draft (although this is not uncommon in college QBs), its been mentioned in the media countless times as one of his tendancies, and its blatantly obvious when watching games on TV that he does it quite a bit. its not hard to see - its not like hes sneaky about it: you see his entire head pointed at the guy hes going to throw to during the receivers entire route.

This isnt a tangible statistic where someone can say "Jason campbell does it x% while some other QB does it y%... but its an obvious problem that has plagued him most of his career. Some can make excuses (perhaps even legitimate ones) that he stares down his receivers because: 1) he doesnt trust them to run their routes, and 2) he's had to learn so many new systems he's never comfortable with the one he's in - but theres no denying that the tendancy itself exists.

Okay, but now we're just shifting the definition to fit the argument. It's gone from "he absoultely can not play the position because he just stares down receivers and everyone knows it" to "some people observe that he may doing this a bit too much, and he needs to show improvement in order to develop".

I'm not going to bother to disagree with the last point, because it's totally opinional (as opposed to totally false, like the first one). I just like to deal with concrete evidences and leave as little guesswork in the analysis as possible. Concretely, [2008 Jason Campbell] was better than [2007 Jason Campbell] which was better than [the average NFL QB in this era] whom is better than [2006 Jason Campbell]. If that makes any sense. That's concrete.

Concrete doesn't mean undeniable, because there's plenty of different ways to evaluate performance. I'm just taking one specific way that isn't stupid.

[BigHairedAristocrat]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Okay, but now we're just shifting the definition to fit the argument. It's gone from "he absoultely can not play the position because he just stares down receivers and everyone knows it" to "some people observe that he may doing this a bit too much, and he needs to show improvement in order to develop".

I'm not going to bother to disagree with the last point, because it's totally opinional (as opposed to totally false, like the first one). I just like to deal with concrete evidences and leave as little guesswork in the analysis as possible. Concretely, [2008 Jason Campbell] was better than [2007 Jason Campbell] which was better than [the average NFL QB in this era] whom is better than [2006 Jason Campbell]. If that makes any sense. That's concrete.

Concrete doesn't mean undeniable, because there's plenty of different ways to evaluate performance. I'm just taking one specific way that isn't stupid.

I never said he could not play the position. Alot of mediocre QBs stare down receivers and they still have starting jobs. Also, I dont see how recognizing a fact (Campbell has a tendancy to stare down receivers) can be a matter of opinion - its a fact. he does it a lot. He's always done it alot. In every system he's ever been in. The fact cant be disputed. The disagreement arises because the fact is not easily quantifiable. That doesnt mean its not a valid point in arguing the Pros and Cons to keeping him as the starting QB in 2009.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

I never said he could not play the position. Alot of mediocre QBs stare down receivers and they still have starting jobs. Also, I dont see how recognizing a fact (Campbell has a tendancy to stare down receivers) can be a matter of opinion - its a fact. he does it a lot. He's always done it alot. In every system he's ever been in. The fact cant be disputed. The disagreement arises because the fact is not easily quantifiable. That doesnt mean its not a valid point in arguing the Pros and Cons to keeping him as the starting QB in 2009.

Well, understood, but I've been openly challenging how much it actually happens for about a week now because it doesn't seem to make logical sense that this big, great problem that is going to prevent him from developing, you know, hasn't actually hindered his development.

That, and I've just never, ever have noticed anything of the sort. Not that I think I'm above error here, I'm sure I've overlooked quite a bunch of things from a bunch of players this season...but this isn't an analysis of HB Blades' lateral movement ability. This is the quarterback of the Washington Redskins. I feel like if your assessment was anywhere near correct, I wouldn't be so dumbfounded right now at how you came up with it.

I'm not asking you to prove it to me mathematically, I'm just wondering if it's as obvious as you claim it to be, why does it NOT show up on the television broadcast footage (or the rare coaches tape bit on NFL N), and if it's as significant for his future development as you think it will be, why haven't we seen it in his progress to date?

I think these are legitimate questions you at least should consider.