Campbell's numbers dont lie

[warriorzpath]

Originally Posted by Buster

You're obviously NOT watching the games very closely. He is playing very well...unlike most of the team.

Campbell may be playing ok (and great based on stats alone), but he's sure not making any plays to win games - and he sure has made plays that have contributed to losses.

I try to be objective as possible but I know one opinion that I strongly believe in is- a great qb is the start of a great team, a bad qb is the start of a bad team, and an average qb is the start of an average team. The redskins team is a bad team and it starts with campbell as a player.

And I am pretty sure with better qb play - the redskins would be 3-0 instead of 1-2.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by warriorzpath

Campbell may be playing ok (and great based on stats alone), but he's sure not making any plays to win games - and he sure has made plays that have contributed to losses.

I try to be objective as possible but I know one opinion that I strongly believe in is- a great qb is the start of a great team, a bad qb is the start of a bad team, and an average qb is the start of an average team. The redskins team is a bad team and it starts with campbell as a player.

And I am pretty sure with better qb play - the redskins would be 3-0 instead of 1-2.

Sure, with Peyton Manning maybe.

You could also say with a better defense we could be 3-0 or 2-1.

[warriorzpath]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Sure, with Peyton Manning maybe.

You could also say with a better defense we could be 3-0 or 2-1.

Sure it's not all on campbell, but redskins needs the qb to make plays to win the game.

He's not going to be Manning, but he needs to make plays to win games, not lose them. The stats don't matter if you don't make the plays and also make mistakes at crucial times.

[over the mountain]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Sure, with Peyton Manning maybe.

You could also say with a better defense we could be 3-0 or 2-1.

ive been thinking alot lately about the best approach to building a winning franchise after reading some of the lions fans forums. they seem pretty split on the two major approaches:

1) try to get lucky and get yourself a franchise qb in the draft.

or

2) build thru the trenches and draft to have a solid deep team in which you only need a decent/good qb

i am not the right person nor knowledgeable enough to put together a thread worth discussing but i do find it real interesting. either way has pros - cons. a great qb makes his line, recievers and coaches look better and it only takes perfect draft pick. but (imo) its easier to evaluate O line and D players in the draft than it is to land that special qb who only comes around once every few years. i would argue matt ryan was the one last year with flacco looking great under cameron.

lol you see im already all over the place in my thoughts.

does anyone know any real informative, history based intensive sports article regarding the best philosophy to build a winning franchise? has bill parcells written a book yet lol?

i should probably just google.

go skins!!

[Southpaw]

Originally Posted by warriorzpath

A great qb is the start of a great team, a bad qb is the start of a bad team, and an average qb is the start of an average team. The redskins team is a bad team and it starts with campbell as a player.

And I am pretty sure with better qb play - the redskins would be 3-0 instead of 1-2.

I completely disagree. Teams are built on the offensive and defensive lines. A great offensive line can make an average to below average quarterback look amazing(Rypien, Doug Williams, Matt Hasselbeck, etc.), and bad offensive lines can make even elite quarterbacks look average or worse.

Plenty of teams have had elite quarterback play and have still been average to bad. The Saints of 2007 were 7-9 with Drew Brees. The Packers went 6-10 last season with Aaron Rogers.

I agree that if you put Peyton Manning on this team, it may be worth a few extra wins, but the biggest problem with Washington is absolutely not the quarterback.

[44Deezel]

Originally Posted by Southpaw

I completely disagree. Teams are built on the offensive and defensive lines. A great offensive line can make an average to below average quarterback look amazing(Rypien, Doug Williams, Matt Hasselbeck, etc.), and bad offensive lines can make even elite quarterbacks look average or worse.

Plenty of teams have had elite quarterback play and have still been average to bad. The Saints of 2007 were 7-9 with Drew Brees. The Packers went 6-10 last season with Aaron Rogers.

I agree that if you put Peyton Manning on this team, it may be worth a few extra wins, but the biggest problem with Washington is absolutely not the quarterback.

Hasselbeck is legit and Brees and Rodgers were victims of poor Defenses, but I don't necessarily disagree with your point that a great Offensive line can make an average QB look good and a good QB look great, etc. And a QB who has all day to throw can make average Receivers look good, etc. Even more evidence that picking 3 Receivers in the 2nd round was stupid. Who was Brady throwing to again when he won 3 Super Bowls? Branch and Gaffney? Skill positions don't mean jack.

I've said time and time again that I think Campbell could take a team like the Titans of last year deep into the playoffs. I just don't think he's good enough to overcome deficiencies in other parts of the Offense. If everything else is perfect (Elite O line, Elite Defense, Dominant Running Game), I don't see any reason Campbell couldn't win a Super Bowl like Brad Johnson and Trent Dilfer did. Of course, both went on to become back-ups, but at least they got their ring.

[warriorzpath]

Originally Posted by Southpaw

I completely disagree. Teams are built on the offensive and defensive lines. A great offensive line can make an average to below average quarterback look amazing(Rypien, Doug Williams, Matt Hasselbeck, etc.), and bad offensive lines can make even elite quarterbacks look average or worse.

Plenty of teams have had elite quarterback play and have still been average to bad. The Saints of 2007 were 7-9 with Drew Brees. The Packers went 6-10 last season with Aaron Rogers.

I agree that if you put Peyton Manning on this team, it may be worth a few extra wins, but the biggest problem with Washington is absolutely not the quarterback.

The offensive line can't be attributed to his mistakes or his lack of playmaking. The issue with the quarterbacks you listed is that they proved themselves with good and great teams, and it all started with the quartebacks. They made the big plays. It can't be overstated the impact that the quarterback makes on any team.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by Southpaw

I completely disagree. Teams are built on the offensive and defensive lines. A great offensive line can make an average to below average quarterback look amazing(Rypien, Doug Williams, Matt Hasselbeck, etc.), and bad offensive lines can make even elite quarterbacks look average or worse.

Plenty of teams have had elite quarterback play and have still been average to bad. The Saints of 2007 were 7-9 with Drew Brees. The Packers went 6-10 last season with Aaron Rogers.

I agree that if you put Peyton Manning on this team, it may be worth a few extra wins, but the biggest problem with Washington is absolutely not the quarterback.

Agreed, agreed, agreed. Good post.

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by Southpaw

I completely disagree. Teams are built on the offensive and defensive lines. A great offensive line can make an average to below average quarterback look amazing(Rypien, Doug Williams, Matt Hasselbeck, etc.), and bad offensive lines can make even elite quarterbacks look average or worse.

Plenty of teams have had elite quarterback play and have still been average to bad. The Saints of 2007 were 7-9 with Drew Brees. The Packers went 6-10 last season with Aaron Rogers.

I agree that if you put Peyton Manning on this team, it may be worth a few extra wins, but the biggest problem with Washington is absolutely not the quarterback.

You are absolutely right.
You are right on saying that the biggest problem isn't Campbell too. But that doesn't mean he isn't a problem at all. Definitely agree he's not the biggest problem though.

[Monkeydad]

UPDATED stats/assessment:

Cutler:
WK 4 - 18/28 (64.3%), 141 yds, 2 TD, 0 INTS, 100.4 rating, 8 rush yds
TOTAL: 83/129 (64.3%), 901 yds, 8 TD, 5 INT, 89.3 rating, 22 rush yds

Sanchez:
WK 4 - 14/27 (51.9%), 138 yds, 0 TD, 3 INT, 27.0 rating, 24 rush yds
TOTAL: 63/110 (57.3%), 744 yds, 4 TD, 5 INT, 71.2 rating, 38 rush yds

Campbell:
WK 4 - 12/22 (54.5%), 170 yds, 2 TD, 3 INT, 70.5 rating, 20 rush yds
TOTAL: 81/124 (65.3%), 963 yds, 5 TD, 5 INT, 85.5 rating, 85 rush yds


Ranks:
Comp. % = Campell, Cutler, Sanchez
Yds = Campell (963), Cutler (901), Sanchez (744)
TDs = Cutler (8), Campbell (5), Sanchez (4)
INTs = Campbell/Cutler/Sanchez (5 ea)
QB rating = Cutler (89.3), Campbell (85.5), Sanchez (71.2)
Rush yds = Campbell (85), Sanchez(38), Cutler (22)


Campbell, despite tehe bad half in the TB game, is still leading all three QBs in most categories. All QBs have an equal 5 INTs. He has more yards than Cutler and Sanchez, both in the air and on the ground. If he did not have those couple of TDs dropped earlier in the season, he'd be even with Cutler on TDs and ahead on Rating, the only two categories he's not leading. The 3 INTs vs. TB is not typical Campbell play, as he's usually one of the best QBs in the NFL at NOT throwing INTs. That performance will be an anomaly this season and he'll finish with far less INTs thrown than the other two QBs we're comparing. Also, despite a weak-looking stat line, he led all three QBs in production in Week 4. Against the same Lions team, Cambell had 200 MORE YARDS than Cutler.

[dmvskinzfan08]

Originally Posted by Buster

UPDATED stats/assessment:

Cutler:
WK 4 - 18/28 (64.3%), 141 yds, 2 TD, 0 INTS, 100.4 rating, 8 rush yds
TOTAL: 83/129 (64.3%), 901 yds, 8 TD, 5 INT, 89.3 rating, 22 rush yds

Sanchez:
WK 4 - 14/27 (51.9%), 138 yds, 0 TD, 3 INT, 27.0 rating, 24 rush yds
TOTAL: 63/110 (57.3%), 744 yds, 4 TD, 5 INT, 71.2 rating, 38 rush yds

Campbell:
WK 4 - 12/22 (54.5%), 170 yds, 2 TD, 3 INT, 70.5 rating, 20 rush yds
TOTAL: 81/124 (65.3%), 963 yds, 5 TD, 5 INT, 85.5 rating, 85 rush yds


Ranks:
Comp. % = Campell, Cutler, Sanchez
Yds = Campell (963), Cutler (901), Sanchez (744)
TDs = Cutler (8), Campbell (5), Sanchez (4)
INTs = Campbell/Cutler/Sanchez (5 ea)
QB rating = Cutler (89.3), Campbell (85.5), Sanchez (71.2)
Rush yds = Campbell (85), Sanchez(38), Cutler (22)


Campbell, despite tehe bad half in the TB game, is still leading all three QBs in most categories. All QBs have an equal 5 INTs. He has more yards than Cutler and Sanchez, both in the air and on the ground. If he did not have those couple of TDs dropped earlier in the season, he'd be even with Cutler on TDs and ahead on Rating, the only two categories he's not leading. The 3 INTs vs. TB is not typical Campbell play, as he's usually one of the best QBs in the NFL at NOT throwing INTs. That performance will be an anomaly this season and he'll finish with far less INTs thrown than the other two QBs we're comparing. Also, despite a weak-looking stat line, he led all three QBs in production in Week 4. Against the same Lions team, Cambell had 200 MORE YARDS than Cutler.

I am sure the JC haters will totally ignore this..lol. Only way they wont hate is if we win the Suepr Bowl. Then they still might hate..lol. All they will say is he is a horrible QB. He sucks. Blah blah blah. The will totally dismiss stats. I think DS and Vinny created this monster by their offseason antics. Which shoulnd't have happened unless they were absolutely sure tehy were getting one of these QBs which in my opinion are not that much better than Campbell if they are at all. But people will hate JC regardless...

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by Buster

UPDATED stats/assessment:

Cutler:
WK 4 - 18/28 (64.3%), 141 yds, 2 TD, 0 INTS, 100.4 rating, 8 rush yds
TOTAL: 83/129 (64.3%), 901 yds, 8 TD, 5 INT, 89.3 rating, 22 rush yds

Sanchez:
WK 4 - 14/27 (51.9%), 138 yds, 0 TD, 3 INT, 27.0 rating, 24 rush yds
TOTAL: 63/110 (57.3%), 744 yds, 4 TD, 5 INT, 71.2 rating, 38 rush yds

Campbell:
WK 4 - 12/22 (54.5%), 170 yds, 2 TD, 3 INT, 70.5 rating, 20 rush yds
TOTAL: 81/124 (65.3%), 963 yds, 5 TD, 5 INT, 85.5 rating, 85 rush yds


Ranks:
Comp. % = Campell, Cutler, Sanchez
Yds = Campell (963), Cutler (901), Sanchez (744)
TDs = Cutler (8), Campbell (5), Sanchez (4)
INTs = Campbell/Cutler/Sanchez (5 ea)
QB rating = Cutler (89.3), Campbell (85.5), Sanchez (71.2)
Rush yds = Campbell (85), Sanchez(38), Cutler (22)


Campbell, despite tehe bad half in the TB game, is still leading all three QBs in most categories. All QBs have an equal 5 INTs. He has more yards than Cutler and Sanchez, both in the air and on the ground. If he did not have those couple of TDs dropped earlier in the season, he'd be even with Cutler on TDs and ahead on Rating, the only two categories he's not leading. The 3 INTs vs. TB is not typical Campbell play, as he's usually one of the best QBs in the NFL at NOT throwing INTs. That performance will be an anomaly this season and he'll finish with far less INTs thrown than the other two QBs we're comparing. Also, despite a weak-looking stat line, he led all three QBs in production in Week 4. Against the same Lions team, Cambell had 200 MORE YARDS than Cutler.

Thank you for posting this and please keep doing it! While I think it's completely pointless to continue to worry/talk about 2 QB who never were and never will be Redskins, some people refuse to let it go so I'd love to keep shutting them up with facts!

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by Buster

UPDATED stats/assessment:

Cutler:
WK 4 - 18/28 (64.3%), 141 yds, 2 TD, 0 INTS, 100.4 rating, 8 rush yds
TOTAL: 83/129 (64.3%), 901 yds, 8 TD, 5 INT, 89.3 rating, 22 rush yds

Sanchez:
WK 4 - 14/27 (51.9%), 138 yds, 0 TD, 3 INT, 27.0 rating, 24 rush yds
TOTAL: 63/110 (57.3%), 744 yds, 4 TD, 5 INT, 71.2 rating, 38 rush yds

Campbell:
WK 4 - 12/22 (54.5%), 170 yds, 2 TD, 3 INT, 70.5 rating, 20 rush yds
TOTAL: 81/124 (65.3%), 963 yds, 5 TD, 5 INT, 85.5 rating, 85 rush yds


Ranks:
Comp. % = Campell, Cutler, Sanchez
Yds = Campell (963), Cutler (901), Sanchez (744)
TDs = Cutler (8), Campbell (5), Sanchez (4)
INTs = Campbell/Cutler/Sanchez (5 ea)
QB rating = Cutler (89.3), Campbell (85.5), Sanchez (71.2)
Rush yds = Campbell (85), Sanchez(38), Cutler (22)


Campbell, despite tehe bad half in the TB game, is still leading all three QBs in most categories. All QBs have an equal 5 INTs. He has more yards than Cutler and Sanchez, both in the air and on the ground. If he did not have those couple of TDs dropped earlier in the season, he'd be even with Cutler on TDs and ahead on Rating, the only two categories he's not leading. The 3 INTs vs. TB is not typical Campbell play, as he's usually one of the best QBs in the NFL at NOT throwing INTs. That performance will be an anomaly this season and he'll finish with far less INTs thrown than the other two QBs we're comparing. Also, despite a weak-looking stat line, he led all three QBs in production in Week 4. Against the same Lions team, Cambell had 200 MORE YARDS than Cutler.

Does any of this stuff really matter? Jay Cutler is the best QB out of the 3 and I don't need stats to tell me that. I mean who are Cutler's wr's? His wr's are worse than ours. Sanchez is a freakin rookie so I expect JC to play better. JC forced some balls yesterday. BIG DEAL. I'm kinda glad that he's taking more chances. Hopefully on plays like the Kelly INT our WR's will FIGHT FOR THE BALL. Is it me or does Kelly suck at the lob passes.

[Monkeydad]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

Does any of this stuff really matter? Jay Cutler is the best QB out of the 3 and I don't need stats to tell me that. I mean who are Cutler's wr's? His wr's are worse than ours. Sanchez is a freakin rookie so I expect JC to play better. JC forced some balls yesterday. BIG DEAL. I'm kinda glad that he's taking more chances. Hopefully on plays like the Kelly INT our WR's will FIGHT FOR THE BALL. Is it me or does Kelly suck at the lob passes.

Cutler is better because your heart tells you so? Nice.

[dgack]

Originally Posted by Buster

Cutler is better because your heart tells you so? Nice.

No, he's better than Campbell because he's won exactly one more game than Jason in his pro quarterbacking career.

BTW, I'm totally using this metric in the offseason. Let's begin the "Orakpo and Fletcher for Kyle Orton" trade scenarios now.

Orton is a proven winner, and as everyone knows, if we just had a proven winning QB here we'd be a Super Bowl contender.