Matt Barkley Stays (QB Draft Prospect Thread-Episode IV)

[SmootSmack]

NFL.com news: With Barkley now out of picture, attention turns to Griffin

[The Goat]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

NFL.com news: With Barkley now out of picture, attention turns to Griffin

Lots of information about Griffin there. Makes him sound much more like a project QB (at the pro level) than most comments would lead you to believe.

[SFREDSKIN]

Originally Posted by The Goat

Lots of information about Griffin there. Makes him sound much more like a project QB (at the pro level) than most comments would lead you to believe.

Very accurate report, that's why Luck and Barkley were consider 1 and 2, because of the pro style offenses they played on. Griffin is great just not as polished, however he has a great upside cause he's very smart and I'm sure could pick things up quickly.

[skinsguy]

Originally Posted by The Goat

Lots of information about Griffin there. Makes him sound much more like a project QB (at the pro level) than most comments would lead you to believe.

Definitely exposes Griffin's downside. Of course, my biggest question of him was how quickly could he adjust to a pro style offense. The BIGGEST piece of info from that link is the fact that the DC reads the defenses and not RG III. In my personal opinion, what makes an NFL QB great is the fact that he's top notch at reading defenses. He doesn't have to have to necessarily have a huge arm or be able to run, but he must be able to read defenses and audible out of bad plays.

I do agree though, I think if you can develop RG III and develop his skills at reading defenses, you can have a championship caliber QB. BUT, I think that means drafting him with the knowledge that he's not going near the field his entire first season.

[The Goat]

Originally Posted by skinsguy

Definitely exposes Griffin's downside. Of course, my biggest question of him was how quickly could he adjust to a pro style offense. The BIGGEST piece of info from that link is the fact that the DC reads the defenses and not RG III. In my personal opinion, what makes an NFL QB great is the fact that he's top notch at reading defenses. He doesn't have to have to necessarily have a huge arm or be able to run, but he must be able to read defenses and audible out of bad plays.

I do agree though, I think if you can develop RG III and develop his skills at reading defenses, you can have a championship caliber QB. BUT, I think that means drafting him with the knowledge that he's not going near the field his entire first season.

Good post...hard to disagree w/ your thinking here.

[SkinItup]

Originally Posted by skinsguy

Definitely exposes Griffin's downside. Of course, my biggest question of him was how quickly could he adjust to a pro style offense. The BIGGEST piece of info from that link is the fact that the DC reads the defenses and not RG III. In my personal opinion, what makes an NFL QB great is the fact that he's top notch at reading defenses. He doesn't have to have to necessarily have a huge arm or be able to run, but he must be able to read defenses and audible out of bad plays.

I do agree though, I think if you can develop RG III and develop his skills at reading defenses, you can have a championship caliber QB. BUT, I think that means drafting him with the knowledge that he's not going near the field his entire first season.

Who is going to Challenge him on the skins? He might not be better than grossman to start but he can't throw too many more INTS than him and the experience would be valuable. he doesn't seem like the type of guy who would lose confidence easily.

[skinsguy]

Originally Posted by SkinItup

Who is going to Challenge him on the skins? He might not be better than grossman to start but he can't throw too many more INTS than him and the experience would be valuable. he doesn't seem like the type of guy who would lose confidence easily.

You have to keep in mind that this is Mike Shanahan's third season coming up as coach of the Redskins. While I believe Snyder is more patient than what he was in the beginning of his tenure, he does not want to see another 5-11 or 6-10 season. While I believe we have seen the best that Rex Grossman has to offer, Grossman knows the offense and can run it pretty well. The only quarterback coming out of college who I'd feel comfortable starting from the start of the season would be Andrew Luck, and I don't think we're getting him. All the rest of the guys will more or less have to ride the pine for at least a few weeks. That being said, I believe the only way RG III shows early success ala Cam Newton, is if Kyle Shanahan is willing to re-work his offensive scheme around RG III's strengths and knowledge and go with that. But, we have all seen that KS wants someone who fits his system, not the other way around.

I'm thinking no matter who we draft, assuming we don't get someone like Mark Sanchez, Rex Grossman is probably going to start the season, and maybe gives way to the rookie by mid-season. Keep in mind, Grossman was out for about three games this year. While at least one of those he would have been out no matter what (pneumonia), there COULD have been possibly one or two games that the Redskins win, which would have put the Redskins in the thick of things for the NFC East title this season. So, as bad as Rex can be, we still had opportunities to have at least an 8-8 season, which would have been an improvement on last season, and on paper would have shown progress. Don't get me wrong, Rex Grossman is NOT the Redskins future, and I strongly support drafting a quarterback and going with young talent. But, as fickled as us Redskins fans are, no matter if Shanahan does that and even starts the kid day one, Redskins fans will be calling for his head come mid season when the skins are 2-6 with the rookie in.

[30gut]

Originally Posted by skinsguy

The BIGGEST piece of info from that link is the fact that the DC reads the defenses and not RG III. In my personal opinion, what makes an NFL QB great is the fact that he's top notch at reading defenses. He doesn't have to have to necessarily have a huge arm or be able to run, but he must be able to read defenses and audible out of bad plays.

I agree to an extent.
But, the ability to 'read' defenses isn't innate its taught/learned.
The ability to read defenses has a lot to with the QBs apptitude and intelligence but imo its equally a function of:

o the system
o coaching
o experience/continuity

BUT, I think that means drafting him with the knowledge that he's not going near the field his entire first season.

People say things like this about spread QBs every year.
But, imo being ready to play isn't a question of coming from a pro-style offense or not.
Its a question of maturity, coachability, drive, confidence, intelligence and of course talent.
Cam Newton, Andy Dalton, Bradford, Colt McCoy all had coaches 'reading' the defense 'for' them (its par for the course for spread QBs) but that didn't stop these guys from playing early or right away.

The bigger question imo isn't the apptitude of RGIII but rather of Kyle.
The inability to teach any other QB the offense has led to Rex being our QB for 15 games.
This imo calls into question how easily the offense can be taught.
Rookies Cam Newton and Andy Dalton, non-pro-style/spread QBs, were able to learn their respective offense in a shortened offseason.
Matt Moore was able to learn a new offense at the end of training camp.
Carson Palmer and Kyle Orton learned their offseason mid-season.
Yet, Rex Grossman was our QB because he knew our offense.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by 30gut

I agree to an extent.
But, the ability to 'read' defenses isn't innate its taught/learned.
The ability to read defenses has a lot to with the QBs apptitude and intelligence but imo its equally a function of:

o the system
o coaching
o experience/continuity

People say things like this about spread QBs every year.
But, imo being ready to play isn't a question of coming from a pro-style offense or not.
Its a question of maturity, coachability, drive, confidence, intelligence and of course talent.
Cam Newton, Andy Dalton, Bradford, Colt McCoy all had coaches 'reading' the defense 'for' them (its par for the course for spread QBs) but that didn't stop these guys from playing early or right away.

The bigger question imo isn't the apptitude of RGIII but rather of Kyle.
The inability to teach any other QB the offense has led to Rex being our QB for 15 games.
This imo calls into question how easily the offense can be taught.
Rookies Cam Newton and Andy Dalton, non-pro-style/spread QBs, were able to learn their respective offense in a shortened offseason.
Matt Moore was able to learn a new offense at the end of training camp.
Carson Palmer and Kyle Orton learned their offseason mid-season.
Yet, Rex Grossman was our QB because he knew our offense.

I think they've done a good job with Grossman. But the offensive upside is limited. Because it's Rex Grossman.

I think you've really touched on a number of bottom line things here.

One thing I would add is that the "pro-style" offense in college doesn't typically involve a lot of pro reads. That's what makes Luck so different from everyone else, because one of the biggest limitations on QBs coming from college to the pros (the abilities to use coverage reads and to work a progression) is something Luck is already doing. Because of that, you don't risk a situation like you have with Sanchez where three years down the line you need a fall guy because your quarterback isn't improving.

Andrew Luck could still fail. He could play inconsistently in his first season, get hurt and miss the entire second season and then have another injury in his third preseason. Then it really doesn't matter what you have invested in Andrew Luck: you didn't get return on it. Andrew Luck could end up being the next Greg Cook. But Andrew Luck is not going to fail because of the nuances of pro offenses. He's already doing that in college.

Anyway, whether or not someone is running pro style formations in offense doesn't mean they are reading defenses. If the receiver is determined by the playcall, then the receiver is determined by the playcall. And that's the norm in college. Spread/pro/wishbone doesn't matter when projecting quarterbacks.

[Mechanix544]

Well, taking into consideration all of the info or speculation or rumors or all of it just rolled into one basket and jostled around and threw up in the air and then it all fell and rolled on the ground for a while, there are two names that I wouldnt be TOO shocked to see in the Burgandy and gold next year.

Those two are Philip Rivers and Matt Schaub...........and I guess I would throw in the Packers backup as well, Flynn, but, given everyones circumstances, possible scenarios point to those two "possibly" being available to us by trade, be it by players or picks or both.......to an extent.

fyi just throwing those two names out there........in hopes that in doing that, it distracts people from the new "Mark Sanchize thread started by someone here.......*(vomits in mouth)*, ok, im back, yeah, no chance of getting the above two guys, just please, oh please do not trade anything over a 3rd for sanchez.........god damn it......if shanny and company gave a 2nd and a 4th for mcflabb, what the hell are they gonna chuck on over to the meadowlands for their underacheiving prettyboy...........

[diehard]

Don't believe the hype. RG3 is worthy of a top 5 pick. And Barkley wants to be the first overall selection not by merit but, by avoiding his competition. He thinks he'll have a better chance next next year but, lame cheaters like him never win. I hope RG3 stock falls so the team doesn't have to deal away picks to get fresh blood at the QB position.

[skinsguy]

Originally Posted by diehard

Don't believe the hype. RG3 is worthy of a top 5 pick. And Barkley wants to be the first overall selection not by merit but, by avoiding his competition. He thinks he'll have a better chance next next year but, lame cheaters like him never win. I hope RG3 stock falls so the team doesn't have to deal away picks to get fresh blood at the QB position.

I'm not believing the hype on either side of the argument to be honest. I think RG III is a gifted athlete. I think he's a very smart guy. And I find it hard to believe that he has absolutely no knowledge of reading defensive schemes. But, I do think he isn't going to be ready to start from day one. I think a lot of his fans are blinded by his athleticism. I wouldn't be so quick to slap the letter 'S' on his chest and give him a red cape. However, with time, I DO think RG III is intelligent enough to pick up things quickly and he could make a big difference in the NFL. Like the article said, he could be a championship caliber player.

I see Andrew Luck starting from day one. Can't really say the same for the other guys in the draft. Which probably makes the Sanchez thread all the more interesting.

[Landry44]

I have no idea why people keep making a big deal out of players coming out of a pro style offense. Sam Bradford didn't come out of a pro style offense and he was able to start right a way. Cam Newton didn't come out of a pro style offense and he's setting rookie passing records. Sanchez came out of a pro style offense and he sucks. Matt Leinart also come out of the same offense and had the privilege of sitting behind a future hall of fame qb for a few year and still wasn't able to adjust to the NFL. Players don't have hard time picking up the offense of defensive systems. That has never been proven to a true. They have a hard time adjusting to the speed of the game. There is no doubt in my mind that RG3 will have no problems picking up our offense and being ready to start day one.

[skinsguy]

Originally Posted by Landry44

I have no idea why people keep making a big deal out of players coming out of a pro style offense. Sam Bradford didn't come out of a pro style offense and he was able to start right a way. Cam Newton didn't come out of a pro style offense and he's setting rookie passing records. Sanchez came out of a pro style offense and he sucks. Matt Leinart also come out of the same offense and had the privilege of sitting behind a future hall of fame qb for a few year and still wasn't able to adjust to the NFL. Players don't have hard time picking up the offense of defensive systems. That has never been proven to a true. They have a hard time adjusting to the speed of the game. There is no doubt in my mind that RG3 will have no problems picking up our offense and being ready to start day one.

I commend your unwavering support for RG III. Honestly, I think whenever he decides to enter the NFL, if he does, he'll make some sort of impact. And yes, just because a quarterback runs a pro style offense in college doesn't necessarily mean he's going to transition into the NFL successfully, but it does help. My idea focuses more on the quarterback's ability to read defenses - coverages and schemes. If what is said is true about his coordinator reading the defensive schemes and signaling in the plays, then I believe that's a major drawback and one that would greatly limit a quarterback and his chances of starting from day one. So, in that respect, I'd have to respectfully disagree in saying RG III would start from day one.

I also have to say with you mentioning Cam Newton, we all know Carolina has tweaked their offense to tailor it around Newton's abilities and strengths. You're not going to get that out of Kyle Shanahan. He wants the right fit for HIS offense. I'm not sure if RG III is that guy or not. I definitely don't believe he is right out of the box. It would take time to develop RG III into that style of quarterback. Now, I have no doubt RG III couldn't be developed into that quarterback, but I just have doubts about him being as prepared as Andrew Luck.

[diehard]

Originally Posted by Landry44

I have no idea why people keep making a big deal out of players coming out of a pro style offense. Sam Bradford didn't come out of a pro style offense and he was able to start right a way. Cam Newton didn't come out of a pro style offense and he's setting rookie passing records. Sanchez came out of a pro style offense and he sucks. Matt Leinart also come out of the same offense and had the privilege of sitting behind a future hall of fame qb for a few year and still wasn't able to adjust to the NFL. Players don't have hard time picking up the offense of defensive systems. That has never been proven to a true. They have a hard time adjusting to the speed of the game. There is no doubt in my mind that RG3 will have no problems picking up our offense and being ready to start day one.

Thank you.