2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)

[HailGreen28]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

MonkeyDad and HailGreen28,

Look, President Obama snuck the Churchill bust back in the White House. #stoplisteningtofoxnews

Shhh...

Fact Check: The Bust of Winston Churchill | The White House

yeah that totally trumps not running a campaign on any issue or plan or principle. Just go totally negative and run on some discredited newspaper articles and bad singing by your opponent. What an inspiring president. Drag the campaign down to mudslinging on any stupid pr point you can. :doh

Regardless of which idiot wins this time around, "did you support obama?" ought to be an effective rebuttal to any democrat who wants to complain about negative campaigning the next 50 years.

[12thMan]

So awesome.

[mlmpetert]

I think well hear more about Churchill's bust pretty soon. But i think the issue is that it was removed from the Oval Office, not that it was sent back to GB. Back in 2009:

A British Embassy spokesman said: "The bust of Sir Winston Churchill by Sir Jacob Epstein was uniquely lent to a foreign head of state, President George W Bush, from the Government Art Collection in the wake of 9/11 as a signal of the strong transatlantic relationship.

"It was lent for the first term of office of President Bush. When the President was elected for his second and final term, the loan was extended until January 2009.

"The new President has decided not to continue this loan and the bust has now been returned. It is on display at the Ambassador's Residence."


Barack Obama sends bust of Winston Churchill on its way back to Britain - Telegraph

Romney's actual (meaning real) remarks:

"I'm looking forward to the bust of Winston Churchill being in the Oval Office again,"

Romney promises to bring Churchill bust back to White House - Political Hotsheet - CBS News

Maybe by placing it with the diplomat it becomes technically held by the foreign country the said diplomat represents?

[12thMan]

It's really not that serious to begin with, I only raised it because Monkeyday made hay about it.

[saden1]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

It's really not that serious to begin with, I only raised it because Monkeyday made hay about it.

It really isn't...Given that bust space is limited I do think that busts of great Americans belong in the Oval Office more so than that of any other foreign figures.

[saden1]

My understanding is that the bust has not been returned or given back to the ambassador. It was simply relocated from the Oval Office to another location in the White House in favor of Abe's bust.

The whole story about it being returned or what have you originated from National Journal and it seems that the media neglected to fact check NJ's claims. Also, Romney could very well have been just saying that he would relocate Churchill's bust back to the Oval Office...hopefully not in favor of Abe's bust.

[mlmpetert]

Originally Posted by saden1

My understanding is that the bust has not been returned or given back to ambassador. It was simply relocated from the Oval Office to another location in the White House in favor of Abe's bust.

The whole story about it being returned or what have you originated from national Journal and it seems that the media neglected to fact check NJ's claims. Also, Romney could very well have been just saying that he would relocate Churchill's bust back to the Oval Office...hopefully not in favor of Abe's bust.

You know im pretty interested in what the real story is now. I too was under the impression that the Bust left the White House.

Interestingly the WH Fact Check never makes any direct mention of the Bust leaving the White House, just that it is in the WH and has been since at least July 20th of 2010. But it does say Krauthammer is 100% lieing and Krauthammer implies it left the WH.

Also Krauthammer never says the Bust isnt currently in the WH, just that Obama removed the bust from the Oval Office and returned it to the British Embassy. Which is either partially or completely true.

Meanwhile the British Embassy spokesperson said in Feburary 2009 that the bust had indeed been returned to them and is "on display at Ambassador's Residence".

To me this sounds like because of all the heat the President took by returning the Bust he brought it back. And it appears he brought back quitely. Either way either The WH Fact Check or the British Embassy lied. However Krauthammer didnt, as he was either mistaken (like all of us) or right. And Romney, in what im thinking was in a completely acidental way, said nothing that could be viewed as incorrect by any means.

[12thMan]

You're missing the point.

The inference by Krauthammer and other right wing loons was that President Obama slighted the Brits by shipping the bust back to Britain. Whether it was moved 10 blocks up the street to the Embassy and later back to the White House is immaterial and entirely besides the point. It's in the White House and Obama rightly gave deference to Lincoln over Churchill

The narrative is what's important here; that Obama slighted the Brits, lacked judgement and diplomacy. That lie has been perpetuated for three years and now has been proven patently false. That's the point.

I'm done with this thread.

[mlmpetert]

I completely agree that Lincoln bust should be in the office over Churchill's. But youre completely mistaken if you think that if Obama gave the bust back to the Brits is somehow immaterial or besides the point. And how in any way has the narrative that Obama slighted the Brits been proven "patently false"? If Obama took the statue back because he realized he slighted the Brits it kind feel the "lie" isnt all that much of a lie.


I just find this whole thing curious because like everyone else i was under the impression that Obama slighted the Brits by giving the bust back. So did he? Did the bust leave the whitehouse? Why did it come back? Will Kelly go to the dance with Zack?

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by mlmpetert

I completely agree that Lincoln bust should be in the office over Churchill's. But youre completely mistaken if you think that if Obama gave the bust back to the Brits is somehow immaterial or besides the point. And how in any way has the narrative that Obama slighted the Brits been proven "patently false"? If Obama took the statue back because he realized he slighted the Brits it kind feel the "lie" isnt all that much of a lie.


I just find this whole thing curious because like everyone else i was under the impression that Obama slighted the Brits by giving the bust back. So did he? Did the bust leave the whitehouse? Why did it come back? Will Kelly go to the dance with Zack?

Couldn't resist

The Brits love Obama. I hate to put it in those terms because he's a head of state not a celebrity, but it's true. I think that accurately captures the sentiment abroad towards the president. I have a few friends that live across the pond and they'd tell you themselves. David Cameron and Obama were at the NCAA tourney eating dogs and yucking it up. They appear to have a close relationship.

Here's a good article. "Cameron worships Obama"

http://www.dnaindia.com/world/report...1719869http://

David Cameron’s special relationship with President Obama - The Washington Post






So if there's anyone who's offended or feels slighted, I can assure you it's Obama's opponents in Congress.

[12thMan]

edit: Done with the topic

[12thMan]

HG28, you're confusing us debating about a stupid bust with what Obama's talking about on the campaign trail? 'Cause he's talking about plenty issues.

[HailGreen28]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

HG28, you're confusing us debating about a stupid bust with what Obama's talking about on the campaign trail? 'Cause he's talking about plenty issues.

Like what?

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by HailGreen28

Like what?

You want me to provide you with 7 months of video footage of the president discussing the issues?

He's been in OH, FL, VA, IA, CA, LA, TX several times in the past few months...weeks. Where've you been?

[HailGreen28]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

You want me to provide you with 7 months of video footage of the president discussing the issues?

He's been in OH, FL, VA, IA, CA, LA, TX several times in the past few months...weeks. Where've you been?

You said he's been talking about plenty of issues. I asked "Like what?".

Claiming to have to dig through campaign footage to find Obama actually talking about issues, and seeing how Obama's going almost totally negative campaigning on TV ads, speaks for itself. Doesn't it?