Arizona's New Immigration Law

[joethiesmanfan]

Originally Posted by SBXVII

Wow, Ok, England truly is at fault here though. Unless you don't know your history? The Americans were not the first to run to Africa and pick up slaves. To be honest with you the Arabs started the African slave issue and trade. When England arrived in the Middle East and wanted to trade alcohol for something the only thing the Arabs wanted to trade was the slaves. England had to figure out what to do with a boat load of slaves. So they decided to try to bring them to the America's (all up and down the Eastern coast to include South America) and trade them for our wheat and cotton. Yes the farmers excepted this and used the slaves to help work the fields and built bigger fields due to all the hands he had working the fields.

You do realize even after Lincoln freed the southern slaves that the northern slaves were not free? Lincoln hoped by freeing the slaves it would cause the Africans to rise up and fight against the Rebs. Unfortunatly that didn't happen and many of slaves joined the south in fighting for the southern rights.

You speak of New Hamshire yet they were one of the states that banned the freed Africans. Even made a law to have them hanged.

Also why was it that 10 to 20 yrs after America freed their slaves America was still shipping slaves to South America? Then when America banned the practice of shipping slaves, England continued to pick up and ship for another 10 to 20 yrs? England is not innocent in their cause and effect. Neither is the Northern States. I'm so amazed at how people get up in arms about the Southern flag but the American flag was the one flying when slavery started. The American flag was flying when only the southern slaves were freed, not all slaves. It was the American flag that flew on American ships who continued to ship Africans. Plus it was the American flag that allowed segrigation and racism. Seperate bathrooms, schools, stores, restaruants...etc. all under the American flag.

Instead of hating the Rebel flag, how about hating the bigots? Like the KKK who, guess what, also fly the American flag.

Your history of the slave trade is way off.

[SBXVII]

Originally Posted by joethiesmanfan

Your history of the slave trade is way off.

Your right. Kinda. The slave trade started when other African tribes didn't want to be slaves to the Arabs so they kidnapped opposing tribes and turned them over to the Arabs so they would leave them alone. Then Britan and the Arabs started trading. Somewhere in there the Brits decided to cut out the middle man and started taking Africans on their own.

[mredskins]

Originally Posted by SBXVII

Wow, Ok, England truly is at fault here though. Unless you don't know your history? The Americans were not the first to run to Africa and pick up slaves. To be honest with you the Arabs started the African slave issue and trade. When England arrived in the Middle East and wanted to trade alcohol for something the only thing the Arabs wanted to trade was the slaves. England had to figure out what to do with a boat load of slaves. So they decided to try to bring them to the America's (all up and down the Eastern coast to include South America) and trade them for our wheat and cotton. Yes the farmers excepted this and used the slaves to help work the fields and built bigger fields due to all the hands he had working the fields.

You do realize even after Lincoln freed the southern slaves that the northern slaves were not free? Lincoln hoped by freeing the slaves it would cause the Africans to rise up and fight against the Rebs. Unfortunatly that didn't happen and many of slaves joined the south in fighting for the southern rights.

You speak of New Hamshire yet they were one of the states that banned the freed Africans. Even made a law to have them hanged.

Also why was it that 10 to 20 yrs after America freed their slaves America was still shipping slaves to South America? Then when America banned the practice of shipping slaves, England continued to pick up and ship for another 10 to 20 yrs? England is not innocent in their cause and effect. Neither is the Northern States. I'm so amazed at how people get up in arms about the Southern flag but the American flag was the one flying when slavery started. The American flag was flying when only the southern slaves were freed, not all slaves. It was the American flag that flew on American ships who continued to ship Africans. Plus it was the American flag that allowed segrigation and racism. Seperate bathrooms, schools, stores, restaruants...etc. all under the American flag.

Instead of hating the Rebel flag, how about hating the bigots? Like the KKK who, guess what, also fly the American flag.

I feel a sense of deja vu about this post for some reason. People now of days most likely hate on the Rebel flag because so many hate groups have adopted that flag as their own.

[joethiesmanfan]

Originally Posted by SBXVII

Wow, Ok, England truly is at fault here though. Unless you don't know your history? The Americans were not the first to run to Africa and pick up slaves. To be honest with you the Arabs started the African slave issue and trade. When England arrived in the Middle East and wanted to trade alcohol for something the only thing the Arabs wanted to trade was the slaves. England had to figure out what to do with a boat load of slaves. So they decided to try to bring them to the America's (all up and down the Eastern coast to include South America) and trade them for our wheat and cotton. Yes the farmers excepted this and used the slaves to help work the fields and built bigger fields due to all the hands he had working the fields.

You do realize even after Lincoln freed the southern slaves that the northern slaves were not free? Lincoln hoped by freeing the slaves it would cause the Africans to rise up and fight against the Rebs. Unfortunatly that didn't happen and many of slaves joined the south in fighting for the southern rights.

You speak of New Hamshire yet they were one of the states that banned the freed Africans. Even made a law to have them hanged.

Also why was it that 10 to 20 yrs after America freed their slaves America was still shipping slaves to South America? Then when America banned the practice of shipping slaves, England continued to pick up and ship for another 10 to 20 yrs? England is not innocent in their cause and effect. Neither is the Northern States. I'm so amazed at how people get up in arms about the Southern flag but the American flag was the one flying when slavery started. The American flag was flying when only the southern slaves were freed, not all slaves. It was the American flag that flew on American ships who continued to ship Africans. Plus it was the American flag that allowed segrigation and racism. Seperate bathrooms, schools, stores, restaruants...etc. all under the American flag.

Instead of hating the Rebel flag, how about hating the bigots? Like the KKK who, guess what, also fly the American flag.

Why the hell would Arabs have to trade for alcohol when alcohol was brought back to Europe from the crusades. Alcohol is an Arabic word, WOW!

[SBXVII]

I know I kinda went on a diatribe. sorry. But looking at the facts only about 1% of farmers had slaves. They were the Riches 1% cause not all farmers could afford slaves. Out of those 1% of farmers only a fraction had more then 5 slaves. If my memory serves me correctly only one farmer had 20 to 30 slaves. Thats it.

Also the whole "Farmers mistreating their slaves" was proven to be false and that it was a Northern propaganda scheme to get the US on board. I know someone will argue the issue so I'll retort now... why did so many Africans return to their plantations after they were freed and found that the Northern states were not so friendly? Why did the farmers who were so brutal give them land and allow them to stay on the land if they helped farm the land and even in most cases gave them part of the earnings in order to pay for food for their families?

[SBXVII]

I know you Can't believe everything from Wiki but....

Atlantic slave trade - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Slavery was practiced in Africa before the beginning of the Atlantic slave trade.[12] Slavery and the slave trade were an integral part of African societies and states which supplied the Arab world with enslaved people for centuries before the arrival of the Europeans.[13] The African slave trade provided a large number of slaves to Europeans and their African agents

The first side of the triangle was the export of goods from Europe to Africa. A number of African kings and merchants took part in the trading of enslaved people from 1440 to about 1833. For each captive, the African rulers would receive a variety of goods from Europe. These included guns, ammunition and other factory made goods. The second leg of the triangle exported enslaved Africans across the Atlantic Ocean to the Americas and the Caribbean Islands. The third and final part of the triangle was the return of goods to Europe from the Americas. The goods were the products of slave-labour plantations and included cotton, sugar, tobacco, molasses and rum.

Although I didn't call it a triangle, I pretty much said the same thing.

[724Skinsfan]

SBXVII, I think you're confusing the British with the Portuguese and Dutch on transporting slaves to the New World.

[SBXVII]

Originally Posted by 724Skinsfan

SBXVII, I think you're confusing the British with the Portuguese and Dutch on transporting slaves to the New World.

No, Maybe, read the Wiki site. Africa started their own slaver. Then the Arabs got involved. Then several other countries. Yes the first wave was Portuguese and Dutch then the second wave was Britian and several other countries.

[724Skinsfan]

Originally Posted by SBXVII

No, Maybe, read the Wiki site. Africa started their own slaver. Then the Arabs got involved. Then several other countries. Yes the first wave was Portuguese and Dutch then the second wave was Britian and several other countries.

Hmmm, I stand corrected.

[SBXVII]

Originally Posted by 724Skinsfan

SBXVII, I think you're confusing the British with the Portuguese and Dutch on transporting slaves to the New World.

Here's the paragraph:

The First Atlantic system was the trade of enslaved Africans to, primarily, South American colonies of the Portuguese and Spanish empires; it accounted for only slightly more than 3% of all Atlantic slave trade. It started (on a significant scale) in about 1502[16] and lasted until 1580, when Portugal was temporarily united with Spain. While the Portuguese traded enslaved people themselves, the Spanish empire relied on the asiento system, awarding merchants (mostly from other countries) the license to trade enslaved people to their colonies. During the first Atlantic system most of these traders were Portuguese, giving them a near-monopoly during the era, although some Dutch, English, Spanish and French traders also participated in the slave trade.[17] After the union, Portugal was weakened, with its colonial empire being attacked by the Dutch and British.
The Second Atlantic system was the trade of enslaved Africans by mostly British, Portuguese-Brazilian, French and Dutch traders. The main destinations of this phase were the Caribbean colonies, Brazil, and North America, as a number of European countries built up economically slave-dependent colonies in the New World. Amongst the proponents of this system were Francis Drake and John Hawkins.

[joethiesmanfan]

Originally Posted by SBXVII

Here's the paragraph:

Economically dependent colonies. America's money.

[SBXVII]

But all this is not the point.

People have been treated like out cast ever since people started immigrating here. The Irish, Scotts, Japanese, Vietnamese, etc. etc. Now it's the hispanic/latino's.

[joethiesmanfan]

The point is this is America, alot of cultures contributed. English is not a requirement to be Amercian. English culture, religion, or none of that. america is huge and different areas of Amercia are dominated by different cultures. Gee whiz this is not England this is America and that is my only point. It's a unique situation because we have a unique history, get over it. The unique history built this place, before your ancestors got here 3 generations ago.

[SBXVII]

Originally Posted by joethiesmanfan

The point is this is America, alot of cultures contributed. English is not a requirement to be Amercian. English culture, religion, or none of that. america is huge and different areas of Amercia are dominated by different cultures. Gee whiz this is not England this is America and that is my only point. It's a unique situation because we have a unique history, get over it. The unique history built this place, before your ancestors got here 3 generations ago.

and I totally agree with you. I misunderstood you. I thought you were insinuating something to the fact that if we wanted to live someplace that spoke English only we should come to New England. For what ever reason I also thought you were refering to New England possibly not having any bones in their closets. Which was why I pointed out the northern states to include New England as being slave states and how they continued with slavery even after the southern slaves were freed.

I'm not sure what the answer is with the immigrants of today? Do we give amnesty, make them become citizens, and pay into our tax system and social security? or do we not allow them and when they get old and need help either medically or to live we simply pay out of everyones pocket for which they didn't pay into? I can tell you go talk to a cop and for all this hard work they are doing when they finally get someone shipped back to their country, with two weeks the individual is right back in America back on the street. Thats a lot of money spent to get them out, housing, plane flight, man power, to simply have them right back two weeks later.

[joethiesmanfan]

Originally Posted by SBXVII

and I totally agree with you. I misunderstood you. I thought you were insinuating something to the fact that if we wanted to live someplace that spoke English only we should come to New England. For what ever reason I also thought you were refering to New England possibly not having any bones in their closets. Which was why I pointed out the northern states to include New England as being slave states and how they continued with slavery even after the southern slaves were freed.

I'm not sure what the answer is with the immigrants of today? Do we give amnesty, make them become citizens, and pay into our tax system and social security? or do we not allow them and when they get old and need help either medically or to live we simply pay out of everyones pocket for which they didn't pay into? I can tell you go talk to a cop and for all this hard work they are doing when they finally get someone shipped back to their country, with two weeks the individual is right back in America back on the street. Thats a lot of money spent to get them out, housing, plane flight, man power, to simply have them right back two weeks later.

We need to secure the border, but this area has always been the way it is. As for those here illegally, some can stay some can't staty. not all these illegal imigrants are good. We have no right to ask someone for their papers because they look like they may be Mexican. This is America we don't get down like that.