Who is Kirk Cousins?

[punch it in]

Originally Posted by rocnrik

Andrew Luck isn't looking so hot right now! Truth is there are many factor that contribute to a QB success..Kirk may not be the star QB we are looking for but he is miles better than anything else we can put out there. I am willing to bet he plays steady from here on out and we will have our QB ..will he be perfect .heck no but from what i have seen so far is major improvement . I don't mind the int's so much if they are deep balls on 3rd down where he is trying to hit the big play..its those 15 yard interceptions that drive me crazy.I would like to see Kirk try more medium range passes on First down so the D won't stack against the run..Something tells me the Skins are going to play well against New england..might be upset of year!

Put down the kool aid, and come out with your hands up! I repeat put down the kool aid and come out with your hands up!

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by punch it in

Put down the kool aid, and come out with your hands up! I repeat put down the kool aid and come out with your hands up!

Forget that, he needs to pass it around, including to Gruden and the Skins so they come out with the right attitude. Better save the really good stuff for halftime though, might just need it!

[Chico23231]

Projected qb franchise tag is over 25 million. Poor choice IMO, real poor choice

[over the mountain]

Originally Posted by Chico23231

Projected qb franchise tag is over 25 million. Poor choice IMO, real poor choice

I thought there was no way the Qb tag would be 25 mil next year but wholly hell, it currently is. Apparently some back loaded contracts are coming due resulting in a QB franchise tag increase of 37%!!!!! The number may go down in some of the top 5 restructure.

Joe Flacco $28,550,000
Drew Brees $27,400,000
Ben Roethlisberger $23,950,000
Matt Ryan $23,750,000
Matthew Stafford $22,500,000


https://www.reddit.com/r/nfl/comment...ojected_to_be/

^^ pretty good fan conversation on next years projected franchise Qb tag.

2016 Quarterback Contracts and Salaries | Over The Cap

^^ Qbs get paid. Kirk is easily going to get btw 6 and 14 mil per if he continues to play decent.

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by Chico23231

Projected qb franchise tag is over 25 million. Poor choice IMO, real poor choice

I completely agree, but I was responding to KI's thought that if Kirk plays real well from here on in, his price might get up there pretty high.

I'm just saying if he's suddenly super consistent and clutch from here on in, then we will have made the playoffs, and suddenly we'll be looking at him like a potential franchise guy. At that point, the possibility of the franchise or transition tag enters your mind.

But that's getting ahead of ourselves, and it's just a best possible scenario. The likelihood is that he'll have a few more clunkers the rest of the way.

The tendency is for people to take his last game and project that forward. He was dynamite against Tampa, but there's nothing in his history to suggest he can do that 9 games in a row. That's a lofty leap of faith.

If he keeps up his current pattern of good game/bad game, he'll be worth around $8M per season. You'd never tag him at that point. You'd simply place your value on him, and if someone offers to overpay then you grin & bear it with Colt McCoy as your bridge to a new starter. That possibility terrifies people, but it would be better than drastically overpaying for another Mark Sanchez.

McCloughan will do the right thing.

[Schneed10]

Mark Sanchez is making $4.5M on a two year deal as a backup in Philly. Have to let the season play out but that's the absolute floor - I'd say Kirk has been better than Sanchez.

$8M per season feels reasonable at the moment for Kirk but like I said, have to let the season play out. If he were to hit the open market he might get more just because some teams are starving for a QB and might overpay.

Whatever, let's see how it goes.

[Schneed10]

Also, anyone notice the bond McCloughan formed with Junior Galette? He had him crying in his office, so much so that Junior was dying to repay the 'Skins for taking a chance on him. Of course McC shares a common bond with Galette in that they've both made mistakes and believe in second chances.

Whatever, my point is that McCloughan did a real nice job selling Galette on the Redskins and getting him for cheap. He might have a shot at resigning him for cheap coming off this achilles, too.

I wouldn't put it past McCloughan to meet with Cousins at season's end and convince him to pass up a chance at free agency & bigger money and sign with the Skins.

[over the mountain]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

Also, anyone notice the bond McCloughan formed with Junior Galette? He had him crying in his office, so much so that Junior was dying to repay the 'Skins for taking a chance on him.

Yes, that told me a lot about Scot and his way to instill confidence in others that he knows what he is doing. Also, the redemption aspect was cool.

Big fan of Scot. hell, im a big fan of Bruce for the way he handled the cap as a placekeeper until he could find a Scot to step in. (not a fan of bruce's condescending and smug post season presser last year).

[DYoungJelly]

Originally Posted by over the mountain

(not a fan of bruce's condescending and smug post season presser last year).

Name another front office suit in the NFL who would mow the grass.

Name just one!

[JoeRedskin]

"Experience wise he's not a young QB"?? Sorry, to me young QB means a guy 25 and under - it has nothing to do with starts or experience. Weeden came into the game an "old" QB at 29 even though he hadn't started a single game. KC my be an "inexperienced QB," though I would argue the point; he is most certainly not a "young" QB.

I understand the "not-enough-starts" argument. However, I think that holds water in year one and two, loses something in year three and is meaningless by years four, five and beyond. I get that consistent starting makes a difference. At the same time, he has plenty of in-game experience to see what kind of QB he is. Starter or not, by your fourth year in the league, you either get it or you don't. I have seen nothing to convince me he can be game-to-game consistent.

[Really, I can think of only a few "late bloomers" ever: Plunkett, Gannon, and Theisman. To me, these guys are the exception not the rule. Further, although I may be wrong, I don't think any of the three cited were turnover machines before they excelled in their respective starting gigs.]

Very simply, he is making the same mistakes now that he made three years ago. I am seeing some improvement in terms of not melting down after a screw-up, but not in avoiding the screw ups in the first place.

He has nine games to change my mind. I truly, truly hope he does.

[punch it in]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

"Experience wise he's not a young QB"?? Sorry, to me young QB means a guy 25 and under - it has nothing to do with starts or experience. Weeden came into the game an "old" QB at 29 even though he hadn't started a single game. KC my be an "inexperienced QB," though I would argue the point; he is most certainly not a "young" QB.



I understand the "not-enough-starts" argument. However, I think that holds water in year one and two, loses something in year three and is meaningless by years four, five and beyond. I get that consistent starting makes a difference. At the same time, he has plenty of in-game experience to see what kind of QB he is. Starter or not, by your fourth year in the league, you either get it or you don't. I have seen nothing to convince me he can be game-to-game consistent.



[Really, I can think of only a few "late bloomers" ever: Plunkett, Gannon, and Theisman. To me, these guys are the exception not the rule. Further, although I may be wrong, I don't think any of the three cited were turnover machines before they excelled in their respective starting gigs.]



Very simply, he is making the same mistakes now that he made three years ago. I am seeing some improvement in terms of not melting down after a screw-up, but not in avoiding the screw ups in the first place.



He has nine games to change my mind. I truly, truly hope he does.

Your very last sentence would be just fine. Totally agree with the age vs game experience thing. Late bloomer to me is a qb who starts more than one or two seasons worth of games, or drifts around the league as a backup and than bursts on to the scene, not one who rides the bench behind a first round pick for a couple years than gets his chance. I would not call Steve Young a late bloomer. He got a late chance. His and KC's whole NFL trips are very rare. They both were deemed worth holding onto while waiting for their chance. Not often a team picks a qb at number two than drafts another so early if at all that year. KC never had a chance in 2012 except to come off the bench and for good reason. 2013 and 2014 to me would be a tough go for any second or third year qb. Changing of regimes and a polarizing guy like RG-3 still clearly at the forefront of the qb discussion.
If we are looking for progress we need not look towards the end of the season. I saw it just last week when he pulled off the biggest comeback in team history. No matter who we were playing that is not an easy thing to do. I for one think KC is smart enough -especially after last week - to learn not to force throws and the issue during a game. He will mature (in starting game years) and wait for a bettet team to be built around him, number one wr, better run game, better o-line, better D!

[Brody81]

Originally Posted by punch it in

your very last sentence would be just fine. Totally agree with the age vs game experience thing. Late bloomer to me is a qb who starts more than one or two seasons worth of games, or drifts around the league as a backup and than bursts on to the scene, not one who rides the bench behind a first round pick for a couple years than gets his chance. I would not call steve young a late bloomer. He got a late chance. His and kc's whole nfl trips are very rare. They both were deemed worth holding onto while waiting for their chance. Not often a team picks a qb at number two than drafts another so early if at all that year. Kc never had a chance in 2012 except to come off the bench and for good reason. 2013 and 2014 to me would be a tough go for any second or third year qb. Changing of regimes and a polarizing guy like rg-3 still clearly at the forefront of the qb discussion.
If we are looking for progress we need not look towards the end of the season. I saw it just last week when he pulled off the biggest comeback in team history. No matter who we were playing that is not an easy thing to do. I for one think kc is smart enough -especially after last week - to learn not to force throws and the issue during a game. He will mature (in starting game years) and wait for a bettet team to be built around him, number one wr, better run game, better o-line, better d!

👍👍👍

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by punch it in

Your very last sentence would be just fine. Totally agree with the age vs game experience thing. Late bloomer to me is a qb who starts more than one or two seasons worth of games, or drifts around the league as a backup and than bursts on to the scene, not one who rides the bench behind a first round pick for a couple years than gets his chance. I would not call Steve Young a late bloomer. He got a late chance. His and KC's whole NFL trips are very rare. They both were deemed worth holding onto while waiting for their chance.

With all due respect, no. Just. No.

Steve Young was signed out of college in '84 to the LA Express in the USFL - at the time he was given an astronomical contract to do so (10 year/ $40 Million - in '86 the average NFL salary was ~200K). Young played 1 1/2 seasons with them the Express before they went bankrupt then signed with TBay which used the first pick of the 1984 Supplemental Draft to draft and sign him (meaning TBay gave up their first rounder in the regular draft - the 2nd pick overall). His first year with TBay (for which he was only available for about half the season) he started 5 games. His second season with TB he started 14 games. Both years, TBay went 2-14. After two years in TBay where he threw 11 TD's /21 INT's, he was traded to SF for a 2nd and fourth round pick. Walsh specifically acquired Young with the intent to sit behind HOF QB Joe Montana - which Young did for three years. (BTW - in his third year/first in SF, Young threw 10 TD's and no INT's in his three games).

The problem with any comparison to Young is that Young was seen as a top tier talent coming out of college and throughout his early career. Not so Mr. Cousins. Further, sure Young had limited opportunities to start in SF waiting behind Montana ... however, and here is the big difference, Young was never sent to the bench for the likes of COLT MCCOY! KC was given the job last year and LOST IT TO COLT! I repeat - KIRK COUSINS LOST THE STARTING JOB TO COLT MCCOY. Nothing in Steve Young's career is comparable to that simple fact. When given starting opportunities due to injury, Steve Young performed well but was sent to the bench for JOE MONTANA! Sorry, Young is NOT a comparable to KC. Not even a little.

[As an aside, can we stop looking for comparables for KC among HOF QB's - first it was "Manning and Farve threw a lot of INT's their first couple years." Now it's "Well, he is just getting a late shot at starting. Just like Steve Young." Barring a miraculous turnaround by KC that would be contrary to the entirety of his past QB history, no HOF QB should be used as a reasonable comparable to Kirk. Ever.]

Originally Posted by punch it in

Not often a team picks a qb at number two than drafts another so early if at all that year. KC never had a chance in 2012 except to come off the bench and for good reason. 2013 and 2014 to me would be a tough go for any second or third year qb. Changing of regimes and a polarizing guy like RG-3 still clearly at the forefront of the qb discussion.

Kirk has been given shots - certainly last year - to stake his claim. After three years in the league, He did not. It's just that simple.

Originally Posted by punch it in

If we are looking for progress we need not look towards the end of the season. I saw it just last week when he pulled off the biggest comeback in team history. No matter who we were playing that is not an easy thing to do. I for one think KC is smart enough -especially after last week - to learn not to force throws and the issue during a game. He will mature (in starting game years) and wait for a bettet team to be built around him, number one wr, better run game, better o-line, better D!

He had a really good game against TBay, a really good clutch drive in Philly. He sucked against the Giants - badly. I don't know which KC is going to show up in NE but my guess is Bad Kirk. Bad Kirk shows up a lot and at random times.

He has had FOUR YEARS to learn "not to force throws" - yet he forced a Tony-Romo-I-must-be-choking throw in Atlanta that turned into a pick 6. Why "especially after last week" do you think the light has suddenly come on?? More importantly, why do you think it will stay on given his proven inconsistency?? The man is a 27 year old, fourth year QB with plenty of in-game experience & starting experience who has yet to unequivocally demonstrate that he can be a consistent starter in this league.

KC is a great guy who has shown some improvement in his play on a game by game basis. He has not, however, shown that he can string three good games in a row without being incredibly inaccurate and/or avoid multiple picks.

You want to believe in magic transformations, I am not going to stop you. I hope for one too. However, please don't try to sell me magical transformations through ill-conceived attempts at rational logic.

[punch it in]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

With all due respect, no. Just. No.



Steve Young was signed out of college in '84 to the LA Express in the USFL - at the time he was given an astronomical contract to do so (10 year/ $40 Million - in '86 the average NFL salary was ~200K). Young played 1 1/2 seasons with them the Express before they went bankrupt then signed with TBay which used the first pick of the 1984 Supplemental Draft to draft and sign him (meaning TBay gave up their first rounder in the regular draft - the 2nd pick overall). His first year with TBay (for which he was only available for about half the season) he started 5 games. His second season with TB he started 14 games. Both years, TBay went 2-14. After two years in TBay where he threw 11 TD's /21 INT's, he was traded to SF for a 2nd and fourth round pick. Walsh specifically acquired Young with the intent to sit behind HOF QB Joe Montana - which Young did for three years. (BTW - in his third year/first in SF, Young threw 10 TD's and no INT's in his three games).



The problem with any comparison to Young is that Young was seen as a top tier talent coming out of college and throughout his early career. Not so Mr. Cousins. Further, sure Young had limited opportunities to start in SF waiting behind Montana ... however, and here is the big difference, Young was never sent to the bench for the likes of COLT MCCOY! KC was given the job last year and LOST IT TO COLT! I repeat - KIRK COUSINS LOST THE STARTING JOB TO COLT MCCOY. Nothing in Steve Young's career is comparable to that simple fact. When given starting opportunities due to injury, Steve Young performed well but was sent to the bench for JOE MONTANA! Sorry, Young is NOT a comparable to KC. Not even a little.



[As an aside, can we stop looking for comparables for KC among HOF QB's - first it was "Manning and Farve threw a lot of INT's their first couple years." Now it's "Well, he is just getting a late shot at starting. Just like Steve Young." Barring a miraculous turnaround by KC that would be contrary to the entirety of his past QB history, no HOF QB should be used as a reasonable comparable to Kirk. Ever.]







Kirk has been given shots - certainly last year - to stake his claim. After three years in the league, He did not. It's just that simple.







He had a really good game against TBay, a really good clutch drive in Philly. He sucked against the Giants - badly. I don't know which KC is going to show up in NE but my guess is Bad Kirk. Bad Kirk shows up a lot and at random times.



He has had FOUR YEARS to learn "not to force throws" - yet he forced a Tony-Romo-I-must-be-choking throw in Atlanta that turned into a pick 6. Why "especially after last week" do you think the light has suddenly come on?? More importantly, why do you think it will stay on given his proven inconsistency?? The man is a 27 year old, fourth year QB with plenty of in-game experience & starting experience who has yet to unequivocally demonstrate that he can be a consistent starter in this league.



KC is a great guy who has shown some improvement in his play on a game by game basis. He has not, however, shown that he can string three good games in a row without being incredibly inaccurate and/or avoid multiple picks.



You want to believe in magic transformations, I am not going to stop you. I hope for one too. However, please don't try to sell me magical transformations through ill-conceived attempts at rational logic.

Was waiting for someone to accuse me of comparing KC to Young in terms of talent. Never did I even hint at such a thing. I was simply comparing the facts that they started their careers as bench warmers in the wings. Only because you make it sound like KC is a journeyman qb - he is in a weird situation like Young to begin a career. Usfl teams and the Bucs are comparable to the crap team Cousins has had to "learn " from. Remember Young went to BYU so he was 23 when his pro career began and his time in TB was less than horrible. Threw twice as many picks as td's in those couple years but Walsh thought he had potential so he rode the pine in San Fran. If TB had A Colt Mcoy there is a good chance he would have been benched for him.
Edit: i dont want to believe in magic, or do i think - once again - that Cousins will pan out for sure. I simply want to give him a fair shake. Imo its been 8 weeks. In yours its been 4 years.
Edit : you dont learn not to force throws sitting on the bench or in practice. You just dont. You learn in gametime. You want to call coming off the bench cold against the Seahawks in the playoffs gametime go ahead. I call it being thrown to the wolves. KC is now after 4 years finally the annointed starter for an entire off season/regular season - let it play out. If we half someone half as capable as Steve Young ill be happy. Also lets be fair - Young had the greatest wr of all time and a hof team all around him. When he played for Tampa Bay he couldnt get out of his own way. Go figure.

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by punch it in

Was waiting for someone to accuse me of comparing KC to Young in terms of talent. Never did I even hint at such a thing. I was simply comparing the facts that they started their careers as bench warmers in the wings. Only because you make it sound like KC is a journeyman qb - he is in a weird situation like Young to begin a career. Usfl teams and the Bucs are comparable to the crap team Cousins has had to "learn " from. Remember Young went to BYU so he was 23 when his pro career began and his time in TB was less than horrible. Threw twice as many picks as td's in those couple years but Walsh thought he had potential so he rode the pine in San Fran. If TB had A Colt Mcoy there is a good chance he would have been benched for him.
Edit: i dont want to believe in magic, or do i think - once again - that Cousins will pan out for sure. I simply want to give him a fair shake. Imo its been 8 weeks. In yours its been 4 years.

Kirk Cousins was 24 on opening day of his first NFL pro season. Same with Young. Young started 19 games in his first two NFL seasons. After that, in his third year he had 10 TD and 0 INT's in his first year in SF. In his fourth year (when he was 27), Young started 3 games and threw 3 TD/3 INT's and after that his TD/INT ratio never worse than 2/1 and generally much better. Young was never, ever, ever, deemed anything other than as the presumed heir apparent to Montana after his acquisition.

As for the bolded part, it just shows to me how you will ignore facts to make it fit your theory. Young started. He had 19 games of starting experience in TBay after which Walsh saw something that made him want to trade a 2nd and 4th for the guy. But somehow, b/c they weren't "quality starts," we're going to alter reality so that it fits into the "KC just got a late start" narrative.

Last year, KC was given a fair shake. Christ, Gruden was begging for him to stake a claim and end the RGIII drama. And, I'm sorry, it HAS been four years and not just eight weeks - that just plain seeing what you want to see and ignoring facts. HE IS A 27 YEAR OLD, FOURTH YEAR PLAYER. You cannot alter the time/space continuum and to wipe out what has gone before. You cannot ignore what he has been these past three. Tough road or not, he has been consistently inconsistent.

Right now, KC is not a journeyman QB. I expect that, eventually, he will be much like Grossman, Foles, Bradford, Campbell, etc. He's got the talent to bang around the league for a while whether here or someplace else. I just don't expect him to be anything other than who he has shown himself to be these last four years.