Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Rams)

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by irish

You know very well the Skins FO runs different than any team in the league except for maybe Oakland.

You're just making stuff up now

[redsk1]

Zorn didn't even hire his own coaches barring a couple. Let's not pretend this is Zorn's team. Not berating the guy, but our FO put together this team. I'm sure Zorn has input but i don't see him being the decision maker when it comes to personel.

Regardless, it's concerning we put up 9 pts and they know it. Hopefully it will get better. It's got to.

[SC Skins Fan]

Originally Posted by redsk1

Zorn didn't even hire his own coaches barring a couple. Let's not pretend this is Zorn's team. Not berating the guy, but our FO put together this team. I'm sure Zorn has input but i don't see him being the decision maker when it comes to personel.

Regardless, it's concerning we put up 9 pts and they know it. Hopefully it will get better. It's got to.

I agree that all roads lead back to Redskins Park, but that does not mean that Zorn is not a liability at this point. It just means that Vinny and Dan were the ones that made him the coach.

[irish]

Originally Posted by Ruhskins

I think you are making an unnecessary argument about the FO here...bottom line is Zorn needs to use the players that he has better in the RZ. His playcalling is terrible in those situation. It doesn't make any sense that the team has talent to move the ball easily between the 20s and to settle for FGs.


If anything, the FO needs to look at some of these so called playmakers (i.e. Moss) and make a decision whether it is time to part ways with them.

I agree Zorn needs to use the players better and I think he is trying to use them better based on their limitations but like I said, it isnt easy and it wont be pretty. These guys dont have the horsepower to score 30 ppg.

I agree about the FO. The Skins really dont have any playmakers or weapons and IMO its time to part ways with a whole bunch of these "weapons" on O. I doubt the FO will really do that as look at what they just did with Sellers. They should have let his contract run out and wish him well with any team that might take him.

[Beemnseven]

I think the fundamental question regarding the offense is whether the system is wrong, or if the players just aren't that good. I'm beginning to think it's the latter.

The only bonafide star that other teams would really want is Chris Cooley. But tight ends usually aren't going to be the difference makers in this league. Clinton Portis at this point in his career is good enough to get yardage, but he's no longer a game-breaking threat. We've got two young receivers that have yet to prove themselves, while our so-called #1, Santana Moss, isn't showing up. ARE is a possession guy who, again, isn't a game-breaker.

Point is, we didn't have the playmakers last year, and we don't have them again this year.

[irish]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

I think the fundamental question regarding the offense is whether the system is wrong, or if the players just aren't that good. I'm beginning to think it's the latter.

The only bonafide star that other teams would really want is Chris Cooley. But tight ends usually aren't going to be the difference makers in this league. Clinton Portis at this point in his career is good enough to get yardage, but he's no longer a game-breaking threat. We've got two young receivers that have yet to prove themselves, while our so-called #1, Santana Moss, isn't showing up. ARE is a possession guy who, again, isn't a game-breaker.

Point is, we didn't have the playmakers last year, and we don't have them again this year.

I couldnt have said it better myself.

[SC Skins Fan]

Just remember that it could always be worse.

New York Jets at Washington Redskins - December 11th, 1993 | Pro-Football-Reference.com

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

I think the fundamental question regarding the offense is whether the system is wrong, or if the players just aren't that good. I'm beginning to think it's the latter.

The only bonafide star that other teams would really want is Chris Cooley. But tight ends usually aren't going to be the difference makers in this league. Clinton Portis at this point in his career is good enough to get yardage, but he's no longer a game-breaking threat. We've got two young receivers that have yet to prove themselves, while our so-called #1, Santana Moss, isn't showing up. ARE is a possession guy who, again, isn't a game-breaker.

Point is, we didn't have the playmakers last year, and we don't have them again this year.

Cooley didn't enter the league as a bonafide star. My point being how are we going to see if guys like Kelly, Mitchell, Fred Davis (heck, even Marcus Mason) can contribute if they're not given the right opportunities? What makes Colston and Robert Meachem for example so much better than Kelly and Mitchell? It's opportunities. I don't buy that we don't have the players to make things happen.

[TheMalcolmConnection]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Cooley didn't enter the league as a bonafide star. My point being how are we going to see if guys like Kelly, Mitchell, Fred Davis (heck, even Marcus Mason) can contribute if they're not given the right opportunities? What makes Colston and Robert Meachem for example so much better than Kelly and Mitchell? It's opportunities. I don't buy that we don't have the players to make things happen.

I agree. I think other teams put their rookies in a position to succeed while we do the opposite. I have a hard time believing that we missed on ALL 3 second round picks. It seems like every time we throw a deep ball to Kelly or Thomas, Campbell misses them. I think Campbell has played very well, but we need to keep feeding these guys the ball.

[roth74va]

I liked......
McIntosh-was flying around making plays.
Horton-this guy is gonna be a beast.
Rogers-regardless of his inability to catch, he is our best cover corner. They need to start negotiating now, maybe we can save some money in the long run.

I didnt like...
Heyer-he is clearly a backup, several plays it looked like his feet were stuck in concrete. One play the defender was 4 yards into the backfield before his feet even moved an inch.
Moss-what happened to what was once our most explosive playmaker. ST would be disappointed, he has lost the fire.
Zorn-pathetic, but Im not surprised. If some dumbass(ME) can sit there and predict 95% of your plays, what makes you think its gonna surprise Spag's? This guy was a good QB coach, but he is in WAY over his head as the head coach.

[BDBohnzie]

Zorn needs to work on the Red Zone calling and personnel. He's trying to be too fancy and it's biting him in the ass.

It's hard for me to believe that the Rams were able to take Cooley out of the game in the 2nd half (6 catches, 65 yards in the 1st half, 1 catch, 18 yards in the 2nd). And if that is the case, someone else (ARE, Moss, Kelly, Davis, etc) should have had a field day. The Rams pass defense isn't that good.

It's a shame that Devin Thomas hasn't stepped up to overtake Moss. I'd love to see Moss in the slot abusing nickel and dimers, and push ARE to the 4. Because from the looks of things, Moss will be outplayed all year long in the #1 spot.

[roth74va]

Originally Posted by BDBohnzie

It's a shame that Devin Thomas hasn't stepped up to overtake Moss. I'd love to see Moss in the slot abusing nickel and dimers, and push ARE to the 4. Because from the looks of things, Moss will be outplayed all year long in the #1 spot.

Im tired of Moss, his heart should really be questioned. His effort so far IMO has been pathetic at best. Kelly looked like he is coming along, I wouldnt object to seeing more of Mitchell either. Moss doesnt deserve to bump ARE, ARE is looking great in the slot. After ST's death Moss played with so much emotion, he needs to get back to that. If he cant step up then trade Moss and get whatever you can for him at this point!!!

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

I think the fundamental question regarding the offense is whether the system is wrong, or if the players just aren't that good. I'm beginning to think it's the latter.

The only bonafide star that other teams would really want is Chris Cooley. But tight ends usually aren't going to be the difference makers in this league. Clinton Portis at this point in his career is good enough to get yardage, but he's no longer a game-breaking threat. We've got two young receivers that have yet to prove themselves, while our so-called #1, Santana Moss, isn't showing up. ARE is a possession guy who, again, isn't a game-breaker.

Point is, we didn't have the playmakers last year, and we don't have them again this year.

We agree more often than not, but I'm going with the former on this one. I think it's system. However, the truth is usually found somewhere in the middle. But if I had to put it on one or the other I would say it's Zorn. Has to be. This team moved the ball up and down the field yesterday, almost at will, until it got into the red zone. The same Redskins players that amassed those stats between the 20s marched right into the red zone. It wasn't the players that changed, it was the play calling and the tempo. That's on Jim Zorn. Besides, how would you know if you have playmakers if you don't call the right plays to even find out? Further when I look around the league, there are more mediocre and average players than great ones. So it's not about having a stud at every position.

The Cowboys took Brandon Jacobs out of the game last night, so what does Coughlin do? He kept chucking the ball to Manningham. At some point Tom Couglin said, we can't score 30 points and keep up with the Cowboys pounding the ball up the middle. So he abandoned the run relatively early and spread the ball around. They even lost one of their top receivers and top defenders, both playmakers, and still pulled it out. That's good coaching.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

We agree more often than not, but I'm going with the former on this one. I think it's system. However, the truth is usually found somewhere in the middle. But if I had to put it on one or the other I would say it's Zorn. Has to be. This team moved the ball up and down the field yesterday, almost at will, until it got into the red zone. The same Redskins players that amassed those stats between the 20s marched right into the red zone. It wasn't the players that changed, it was the play calling and the tempo. That's on Jim Zorn. Besides, how would you know if you have playmakers if you don't call the right plays to even find out? Further when I look around the league, there are more mediocre and average players than great ones. So it's not about having a stud at every position.

The Cowboys took Brandon Jacobs out of the game last night, so what does Coughlin do? He kept chucking the ball to Manningham. At some point Tom Couglin said, we can't score 30 points and keep up with the Cowboys pounding the ball up the middle. So he abandoned the run relatively early and spread the ball around. They even lost one of their top receivers and top defenders, both playmakers, and still pulled it out. That's good coaching.

What was that stat they flashed during the game, something like the Skins avg yards per play was over 7 outside of the RZ and it dropped to 1 something in the RZ? Kinda points to a play calling issue to me.

[franklinhimself]

I've always been a JC supporter, and now more than ever I feel some sympathy needs to be extended his way All the systems he's had to learn and forget about, and a HC in Zorn that's too much of a prick to trust him with the RZ offense. I want JC to succeed. I hope it's here in Washington. He's a mature player who's been in some situations where he's had to call a play or two on his own because the helmet microphone cut out.

A losing record this year I personally think means a major overhaul. New D coordinator, new O-coordinator, new HC