O-Line Edition: Free Agency and the Draft

[GusFrerotte]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Knowing we don't have the second round pick makes me think we could really use about 6 different players at that third round pick.

Maybe the NFL will just let us have them all?

That lost second round pick means simply our efforts at rebuilding with the draft apart from RG III is going to be limited.

[GusFrerotte]

So many vet linemen released that we could find a couple good fits if we really wanted to go the FA route for O line needs. I am not totally down on our line per say, but I don't think that it is all that solid. Trent gets nicked up a lot, and is going to get worse as time goes on. It is simple aging that will hurt him, like Tre Johnson, etc. Linemen really don't last all that long anymore since they are so enormous and their bodies really aren't geared for that or that type of abuse.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by GusFrerotte

So many vet linemen released that we could find a couple good fits if we really wanted to go the FA route for O line needs. I am not totally down on our line per say, but I don't think that it is all that solid. Trent gets nicked up a lot, and is going to get worse as time goes on. It is simple aging that will hurt him, like Tre Johnson, etc. Linemen really don't last all that long anymore since they are so enormous and their bodies really aren't geared for that or that type of abuse.

you do realize TW is 23 right

[EARTHQUAKE2689]

Originally Posted by GusFrerotte

That lost second round pick means simply our efforts at rebuilding with the draft apart from RG III is going to be limited.

Now that is just stupid. One 2nd round pick isn't gonna make or break anything.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by EARTHQUAKE2689

Now that is just stupid. One 2nd round pick isn't gonna make or break anything.

It means a lot for the 2012 season. I mean, whose the worst player we've taken in the second round in recent times? Jacobs? Thomas? Trading the pick is like adding that guy to the current mix because you know you can't get anything on it.

In the grand scheme of things, when we're talking about RG3 in 2016 or 2017 and how good he'll be, I don't think it matters very much. But for the Shanahan era its a big deal.

[JoeRedskin]

2nd Round Picks:
1999: Jon Jansen
2001: Fred Smoot
2002: Ladell Betts
2003: Taylor Jacobs
2006: Rocky McIntosh
2008: Fred Davis, Malcolm Kelly, Devin Thomas
2011: Jarvis Jenkins

I would trade that entire list for an elite QB. On that list, who was a major contributor in years one and two? Davis? Jansen? Smoot?

Yes, the loss of the 2nd rounder hinders us. Okay. It's the old, you don't make an omellete without breaking some eggs.

In the same vein as the NFL letting us pick 6 guys with our 3rd rounder - Maybe we should have just asked them to give us a franchise QB of our choosing at no cost and then we would still have the 2nd round pick.

You take the good with the bad. If RGIII turns out to be a phenom, missing on getting a Jansen or a Davis will be forgotten. If he struggles as a rookie, the 2nd round player probably wasn't going to equate to more wins anyway. And, God forbid, RGIII is a bust - well, we are just up the sh**iest creek in the world without a paddle or a canoe.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

2nd Round Picks:
1999: Jon Jansen
2001: Fred Smoot
2002: Ladell Betts
2003: Taylor Jacobs
2006: Rocky McIntosh
2008: Fred Davis, Malcolm Kelly, Devin Thomas
2011: Jarvis Jenkins

I would trade that entire list for an elite QB. On that list, who was a major contributor in years one and two? Davis? Jansen? Smoot?

Yes, the loss of the 2nd rounder hinders us. Okay. It's the old, you don't make an omellete without breaking some eggs.

In the same vein as the NFL letting us pick 6 guys with our 3rd rounder - Maybe we should have just asked them to give us a franchise QB of our choosing at no cost and then we would still have the 2nd round pick.

You take the good with the bad. If RGIII turns out to be a phenom, missing on getting a Jansen or a Davis will be forgotten. If he struggles as a rookie, the 2nd round player probably wasn't going to equate to more wins anyway. And, God forbid, RGIII is a bust - well, we are just up the sh**iest creek in the world without a paddle or a canoe.

If the recent history of the franchise were the be-all-end-all here, it'd be easy to temper expectations for RG3 this upcoming year. Out of the performance of the three first round QBs the Redskins have taken, Shuler was inadequate as a rookie, Ramsey was merely adequate, and Campbell didn't play a snap. Don't average that out: it's not great. Certainly not worth trading up for.

Here's the deal: the Redskins are in bad shape. They needed to solve their quarterback issue in the first round, and then needed to have a hell of a draft beyond the first round. Especially after the cap penalty threw a wrench into things.

My personal philosophy on things is that you always want to give yourself the best fighting chance to compete now and in the future. To me, that means instead of trading up (or even down), the Redskins needed to land three top level players in the first two days of this draft, including one quarterback.

They're going to get the quarterback. Have him. No one can jump them. They are still able to use that third round pick to bring in another top player, provided they are aggressive enough to target a guy who is falling due to high supply (such as CB or WR). But that's essentially their limitation. There's a virtual guarantee here that they'll come up short of what they needed to in order to improve the team to compete in a loaded NFC.

So while I think this can still be a pretty darn good offseason (fixed QB, fixed WR?, have another day two pick), not having that second round pick eliminates any irrational hope I might have had of this team getting back on the pace to compete in 2013 after it set itself back the last two years.

I understand fully if people see Griffin and are like "goddamnnit, I'll take it!" independant of any other failures of the offseason. I get that a lot of successful second round picks aren't with the team anymore. But mortgating the future makes a lot more sense if you have the resources to be relevant in the present. If you're giving up future picks to be better (but still inadequate) in the present, that's not good or bad so much as it's desperate.

[ethat001]

Shanahan has historically drafted zone blocking O-linemen well in later rounds. However in his two Redskin drafts, he's waited to draft until the 7th round, and failed on 2 of 3 picks. He needs to draft a couple linemen in earlier rounds this year, don't want to rely on a late 6-7th rounder to protect RG3 in the near future.

2010
1st round - TW - good so far minus drug abuse
7th round - Erik Cook - fail
7th round - Selvish Capers - fail

2011
7th round - Maurice Hurt - shows promise

[SkinItup]

Originally Posted by ethat001

Shanahan has historically drafted zone blocking O-linemen well in later rounds. However in his two Redskin drafts, he's waited to draft until the 7th round, and failed on 2 of 3 picks. He needs to draft a couple linemen in earlier rounds this year, don't want to rely on a late 6-7th rounder to protect RG3 in the near future.

2010
1st round - TW - good so far minus drug abuse
7th round - Erik Cook - fail
7th round - Selvish Capers - fail

2011
7th round - Maurice Hurt - shows promise

I wouldn't be surprised to see changes down the draft board so we can pick up 4-6 players of OL, S, and CB in the 6th, 7th. If 1 can be a consistent starter or a nickle cb type starter it would be a win.

[REDSKINS4ever]

Originally Posted by ethat001

Shanahan has historically drafted zone blocking O-linemen well in later rounds. However in his two Redskin drafts, he's waited to draft until the 7th round, and failed on 2 of 3 picks. He needs to draft a couple linemen in earlier rounds this year, don't want to rely on a late 6-7th rounder to protect RG3 in the near future.

2010
1st round - TW - good so far minus drug abuse
7th round - Erik Cook - fail
7th round - Selvish Capers - fail

2011
7th round - Maurice Hurt - shows promise

I understand what you're saying. Mike Shanahan micro manages like no other coach in charge of personnel in the NFL. He looks meticulously for excellent linemen in the later rounds because he feels it's key to draft the players of key positions in the early to mid rounds and to find excellent depth with offensive linemen in the late rounds of any drafts. I haven't checked Shanahan's record on such, but I'm really not sure if he's ever drafted an offensive lineman within the first three rounds of any drafts except Trent Williams.

[theJBexperience]

Originally Posted by ethat001

Shanahan has historically drafted zone blocking O-linemen well in later rounds. However in his two Redskin drafts, he's waited to draft until the 7th round, and failed on 2 of 3 picks. He needs to draft a couple linemen in earlier rounds this year, don't want to rely on a late 6-7th rounder to protect RG3 in the near future.

2010
1st round - TW - good so far minus drug abuse
7th round - Erik Cook - fail
7th round - Selvish Capers - fail

2011
7th round - Maurice Hurt - shows promise

Great point. I feel like Shanny historically has done well finding WRs in later rounds as well, but hasn't been as successful with the Skins. I wonder how much Bruce Allen is to blame. His draft record in Tampa was terrible. I do feel like last year's draft was our best though. Hopefully, Shanny & Allen are beginning to gel.

[The Goat]

Originally Posted by theJBexperience

Great point. I feel like Shanny historically has done well finding WRs in later rounds as well, but hasn't been as successful with the Skins. I wonder how much Bruce Allen is to blame. His draft record in Tampa was terrible. I do feel like last year's draft was our best though. Hopefully, Shanny & Allen are beginning to gel.

...would be awesome to have bugs inside all the offices!!

[tryfuhl]

Originally Posted by The Goat

...would be awesome to have bugs inside all the offices!!

Wrong team with the native American nickname for that one lol

[T.O.Killa]

Ryan Clady round 1
Ryan Harris round 3

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by T.O.Killa

Ryan Clady round 1
Ryan Harris round 3

So any linemen named Ryan available in the 3rd or 4th?

Looks like the plan is to roll into 2012 with the OL as is. I wouldn't be surprised to see a developmental RT picked in the 3rd or with one of our 4th round picks.