Arizona's New Immigration Law

[SBXVII]

Originally Posted by 2BIG2BSKINNY

I think that is the point! I am an American citizen as my dad who was allowed in the country being Cuban, since our government does not like Castro! My mother has been here over 40 years and is a nautralized citizen and we are not from Arizona!........but..... since my folks and family and I for that matter speak Spanish and look Hispanic we will be bothered by this law and our rights taken away regardless of how many years here.

This is a discussion... I do not get offended easy...your good!

I do not look like a mexican but look very cuban as some cubans can be very light skin (as I ) and others dark skin who look african american.

As I said prior. I think, with my oppinions only and looking at it as if "illegals" don't have rights, there would be a lot of trampling on honest citizens rights. I agreed with this and even said I could see the "legal" citizens having a legitimate complaint if they are constantly being stopped and questions.

It's hard to make a rule saying all illegal immigrants can be stopped and questioned about status but how do you tell the difference from the legals and illegals. I agree the Arizona law might not be fair or even legal. What I'm refering to though is if and when the police finally determine if someone is illegal, then and only then should they not be treated as an American. I don't think the police should be walking up and down the street asking latino's if they have papers, cause now we would be the Nazis. But if the police find out after a traffic stop or during an arrest then all bets are off.

I just can't see how America can open its boarder and say come one come all. Not everyone would come but I'm betting we would have a flood of immigrants. Everyone knows America is the place to come to for jobs, money, and upward mobility.

[Hog1]

Until such time that we make it unattractive to come to this country illegally....more of the same.
Until such time the Fed has the balls to....get serious about closing our borders and make it unattractive to come here illegally....more of the same.
More lip service and snake oil...more of the same

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by Hog1

Until such time that we make it unattractive to come to this country illegally....more of the same.
Until such time the Fed has the balls to....get serious about closing our borders and make it unattractive to come here illegally....more of the same.
More lip service and snake oil...more of the same

You are correct but the feds won't do anything because they want their vote. All this law in AZ is going to do is drive the illegals to boarder states or maybe even deeper into other states.

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by Hog1

Until such time that we make it unattractive to come to this country illegally....more of the same.
Until such time the Fed has the balls to....get serious about closing our borders and make it unattractive to come here illegally....more of the same.
More lip service and snake oil...more of the same

Why couldn't we make it easier to come, harder to stay. Here's what I mean. Basically, excluding convicted felons and a small portion of truly undesirables, offer 3 year entry permits-that must be renewed yearly- to nearly every Central American. Have a requirement that by year 3 they must show that they have a valid productive job for atleast 18 months, regardless of pay (maybe have a minimum but maybe not). If not then the visa expires, and they can reapply for entry in 5 years, if yes then the visa would be extended to a 5 year visa, and they would be eligible for citizenship at the end of those 5 years. Further restrictions, marriage and childbirth would not be ways to gain automatic citizenship during the first 3 year visa.

This would:
a) live up to the Statue of Liberty
b) offer a way for people to find a better life
c) reduce illegal border entry
d) offer verifiable records for nearly every immigrant.
e) increase the effectiveness of border patrols and customs
f) restrict loopholes for people once they are here legally.

[Hog1]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

Why couldn't we make it easier to come, harder to stay. Here's what I mean. Basically, excluding convicted felons and a small portion of truly undesirables, offer 3 year entry permits-that must be renewed yearly- to nearly every Central American. Have a requirement that by year 3 they must show that they have a valid productive job for atleast 18 months, regardless of pay (maybe have a minimum but maybe not). If not then the visa expires, and they can reapply for entry in 5 years, if yes then the visa would be extended to a 5 year visa, and they would be eligible for citizenship at the end of those 5 years. Further restrictions, marriage and childbirth would not be ways to gain automatic citizenship during the first 3 year visa.

This would:
a) live up to the Statue of Liberty
b) offer a way for people to find a better life
c) reduce illegal border entry
d) offer verifiable records for nearly every immigrant.
e) increase the effectiveness of border patrols and customs
f) restrict loopholes for people once they are here legally.

I'm all for it. It MUST be unattractive to come here illegally.
If you do you will:
NOT be able to get a job...anywhere
NOT be able to get benefits of ANY kind
Your children born here will NOT be considered US nationals
BE deported...etc
On the flip side, it should be made as easy as possible to immigrate legally.

On an indirect sidetrack...population in this country is going to have to be addressed..that should be fun

[Rainy Parade]

Originally Posted by Hog1

On an indirect sidetrack...population in this country is going to have to be addressed..that should be fun

killing all the Cowboys fans would certainly be a good start.

[SBXVII]

Originally Posted by Rainy Parade

killing all the Cowboys fans would certainly be a good start.

Intersting coming from a Raider fan. Hmmm. I'm beginning to like you more and more.

[Hog1]

Originally Posted by Rainy Parade

killing all the Cowboys fans would certainly be a good start.

YOU are a prophet.........

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by Hog1

I'm all for it. It MUST be unattractive to come here illegally.
If you do you will:
NOT be able to get a job...anywhere
NOT be able to get benefits of ANY kind
Your children born here will NOT be considered US nationals
BE deported...etc
On the flip side, it should be made as easy as possible to immigrate legally.

On an indirect sidetrack...population in this country is going to have to be addressed..that should be fun

Ok, so we make it real easy to become a legal citizen and then they become even a bigger burden on the system. From what I read most that come here illegaly are uneducated and thus have a limited means to make a good income. Now that they are legal it is much easier to access federal programs and cost us even moor money. It said the more educated, non violient, etc... are more likely to come here through illegal means. We have to make it somewhat of a long process or all we will get crossing is a bunch of dumb asses who will milk the system. I think we allready have enough of US citizens doing that now.

[joethiesmanfan]

Originally Posted by firstdown

Ok, so we make it real easy to become a legal citizen and then they become even a bigger burden on the system. From what I read most that come here illegaly are uneducated and thus have a limited means to make a good income. Now that they are legal it is much easier to access federal programs and cost us even moor money. It said the more educated, non violient, etc... are more likely to come here through illegal means. We have to make it somewhat of a long process or all we will get crossing is a bunch of dumb asses who will milk the system. I think we allready have enough of US citizens doing that now.

Umm we already go this kind from England in the 1700's. LOL!!!!!

[Rainy Parade]

Originally Posted by firstdown

Ok, so we make it real easy to become a legal citizen and then they become even a bigger burden on the system. From what I read most that come here illegaly are uneducated and thus have a limited means to make a good income. Now that they are legal it is much easier to access federal programs and cost us even moor money. It said the more educated, non violient, etc... are more likely to come here through illegal means. We have to make it somewhat of a long process or all we will get crossing is a bunch of dumb asses who will milk the system. I think we allready have enough of US citizens doing that now.

my grandparents and father-in-law were uneducated immigrants. they didn't were non-violent and didn't commit crimes and didn't milk the system.

so, lucky for you, i'm here!

[SBXVII]

Originally Posted by firstdown

Ok, so we make it real easy to become a legal citizen and then they become even a bigger burden on the system. From what I read most that come here illegaly are uneducated and thus have a limited means to make a good income. Now that they are legal it is much easier to access federal programs and cost us even moor money. It said the more educated, non violient, etc... are more likely to come here through illegal means. We have to make it somewhat of a long process or all we will get crossing is a bunch of dumb asses who will milk the system. I think we allready have enough of US citizens doing that now.

Let me ask you this, isn't it already a law that legal immigrants have like 10 yrs to become citizens? meaning taking the big test or they are shipped back to their country?

[Hog1]

Originally Posted by firstdown

Ok, so we make it real easy to become a legal citizen and then they become even a bigger burden on the system. From what I read most that come here illegaly are uneducated and thus have a limited means to make a good income. Now that they are legal it is much easier to access federal programs and cost us even moor money. It said the more educated, non violient, etc... are more likely to come here through illegal means. We have to make it somewhat of a long process or all we will get crossing is a bunch of dumb asses who will milk the system. I think we allready have enough of US citizens doing that now.

Sooo...you like the current "pass through border" program better?
AND we may have to slam the borders closed to immigration altogether? BUT, if we have effectively gained control of the borders...we could do that at will. Currently we have NO such option.
First, eliminate the attraction for illegals to come here. Add in a job ammendment such as CRedskins suggested through which some tax money might be generated and some of these Federal programs that get abused will be at least partially paid for. Because we now have legal immigrants.
Philosophically IMO, one of the largest problems the US faces is pissin' somebody off. We are no longer able to do what is necessary for the greater good of the whole for fear of making a particular group...mad?

[joethiesmanfan]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

Why couldn't we make it easier to come, harder to stay. Here's what I mean. Basically, excluding convicted felons and a small portion of truly undesirables, offer 3 year entry permits-that must be renewed yearly- to nearly every Central American. Have a requirement that by year 3 they must show that they have a valid productive job for atleast 18 months, regardless of pay (maybe have a minimum but maybe not). If not then the visa expires, and they can reapply for entry in 5 years, if yes then the visa would be extended to a 5 year visa, and they would be eligible for citizenship at the end of those 5 years. Further restrictions, marriage and childbirth would not be ways to gain automatic citizenship during the first 3 year visa.

This would:
a) live up to the Statue of Liberty
b) offer a way for people to find a better life
c) reduce illegal border entry
d) offer verifiable records for nearly every immigrant.
e) increase the effectiveness of border patrols and customs
f) restrict loopholes for people once they are here legally.

For Dominicans they get same treatment as Cubans.

[joethiesmanfan]

Taxes are a reality. Even Jesus said give Ceasar what's Ceasar's. I think it is cynical to boost up gullible people with the intoxicating idea of no taxes. There is a finite sum of money and it must be spread to the benefit of society, or we learn lesson of history (i.e. Mari antoinette etc etc). Having said that we are taxed too much though.