Offer made on Chad (1st rd '08, conditional 3rd rd '09)

[SC Skins Fan]

Originally Posted by KB24

LaVar Arrington, Bruce Smith, Mark Carrier, Jeff George (GAG!), Deion Sanders (DOUBLE-GAG!), Laveranus Coles, Santana Moss, Joe Morton and Brandon Lloyd are the ones who come to my mind. Snyder even wanted Ted Ginn, Jr., until Gregg Williams sold him on LaRon Landry.

I guess I'm just hesitant to make another trade like this for a "superstar" when that strategy in the past hasn't gotten us to the next level. And I just wonder whether it's smart to sink everything as much as we are trying to into him when he may not be able to get us to that level by himself. That's where I'm coming from with all this.

Here, though, you mistake acquiring a 'big name' with acquiring a 'big talent'. The question posed by OTM was not what big splashes have the Redskins made in FA/Trades since 2000, those are well documented, but rather "what perennial Pro Bowler, Top Five at his position players have the acquired. In you're answer you are all over the board.

LaVar Arrington was a draft pick not a FA pick/trade so right there he does not fit the model (in fact, if you want to call him a failed move - which I might question - then it actually goes against your argument and suggests a proven player is better than the unknown quantity you get with even a top five draft pick). Nonetheless, until he got into the Gibbs/Williams doghouse he was an explosive player, fan favorite, and made multiple Pro Bowl appearances.

Smith, Carrier, George, and Sanders were all part of the 2000 binge and clearly not front line players any longer. Some had been Pro Bowl talent, but all were aging players - and despite the 'ageism' leveled against Johnson he clearly does not fit this mold.

Coles was a solid player, but clearly not at the level of Johnson. He did have a very good first year with the Skins and made a Pro Bowl appearance before this got ugly. We then traded him back to NYJ for Santana Moss and I don't know why Moss gets tossed in here with the others, I think he has been pretty successful in Washington quite frankly.

Chad Morton was a kick returner who the Skins overpaid for, but again you miss the point that OTM was making saying that the Skins have not acquired any players of Johnson's ilk through trade apart from Portis. That certainly includes Brandon Lloyd who many had reservations about even before he was brought in here ... to compare Johnson to Lloyd in terms of talent stretches the limits of credulity. Clearly you would agree, but that was precisely the point OTM (and others) have made. The people you reference (save Moss and Arrington who don't fit the model) were failures of talent evaluation. The fact that trades were involved was not the reason they were failures. They were failures because they were not elite NFL talents. Clearly Johnson does not fit that description.

And I'm not saying the Redskins NEED Chad Johnson. There are arguments against such a move (including the fact that the Bengals don't seem interested). At times you make reference to some of these reasons. But then at other times you get off on illogical tangents that confuse the issue rather than adding clarity.

[KB24]

Originally Posted by SC Skins Fan

Here, though, you mistake acquiring a 'big name' with acquiring a 'big talent'. The question posed by OTM was not what big splashes have the Redskins made in FA/Trades since 2000, those are well documented, but rather "what perennial Pro Bowler, Top Five at his position players have the acquired. In you're answer you are all over the board.

LaVar Arrington was a draft pick not a FA pick and until he got into the Gibbs/Williams doghouse he was an explosive player, fan favorite, and made multiple Pro Bowl appearances.

Smith, Carrier, George, and Sanders were all part of the 2000 binge and clearly not front line players any longer. Some had been Pro Bowl talent, but all were aging players - and despite the 'ageism' leveled against Johnson he clearly does not fit this mold.

Coles was a solid player, but clearly not at the level of Johnson. He did have a very good first year with the Skins and made a Pro Bowl appearance before this got ugly. We then traded him back to NYJ for Santana Moss and I don't know why Moss gets tossed in here with the others, I think he has been pretty successful in Washington quite frankly.

Chad Morton was a kick returner who the Skins overpaid for, but again you miss the point that OTM was making saying that the Skins have not acquired any players of Johnson's ilk through trade apart from Portis. That certainly includes Brandon Lloyd who many had reservations about even before he was brought in here ... to compare Johnson to Lloyd in terms of talent stretches the limits of credulity. Clearly you would agree, but that was precisely the point OTM (and others) have made. The people you reference (save Moss and Arrington who don't fit the model) were failures of talent evaluation. The fact that trades were involved was not the reason they were failures. They were failures because they were not elite NFL talents. Clearly Johnson does not fit that description.

I see your point. I guess the past experiences have made me question the motivation of deals such as this one. I'd just like to see us try to groom our own talent and draft wisely for once like we did in the past.

[over the mountain]

Originally Posted by KB24

LaVar Arrington, Bruce Smith, Mark Carrier, Jeff George (GAG!), Deion Sanders (DOUBLE-GAG!), Laveranus Coles, Santana Moss, Joe Morton and Brandon Lloyd are the ones who come to my mind. Snyder even wanted Ted Ginn, Jr., until Gregg Williams sold him on LaRon Landry.



I guess I'm just hesitant to make another trade like this for a "superstar" when that strategy in the past hasn't gotten us to the next level. And I just wonder whether it's smart to sink everything as much as we are trying to into him when he may not be able to get us to that level by himself. That's where I'm coming from with all this.

lol, jeff george (we should have stayed with BJ) and bruce smith were FA signings we got at the end of their careers. coles had a bad heal but a good career with us till we traded him for moss who happened to set the skins season rec yds record and we drafted lavar!! none of those players at the time we got them are anywhere near the production level of a 30 yr old CJ nor did they cost us all our draft picks. im surprised you left duckett out too.

My point is we havent traded or signed a true superstar like CJ since CP (who set the skins season rushing record). comparing CJ to the likes of lloyd and jeff george is ridiculus imo.

go skins!

KB - i think what your trying to say is that instead of throwing big money at CJ now and handcuffing our abilities to add elite talent in the future, we should hold onto some loose cash for a year or two when the team will be 1 superstar signing away from being a SB contender then go after that 1 missing piece? makes sense and i concur.

go skins!

[KB24]

Originally Posted by over the mountain

lol, jeff george (we should have stayed with BJ) and bruce smith were FA signings we got at the end of their careers. coles had a bad heal but a good career with us till we traded him for moss who happened to set the skins season rec yds record and we drafted lavar!! none of those players at the time we got them are anywhere near the production level of a 30 yr old CJ nor did they cost us all our draft picks. im surprised you left duckett out too.

My point is we havent traded or signed a true superstar like CJ since CP (who set the skins season rushing record). comparing CJ to the likes of lloyd and jeff george is ridiculus imo.

go skins!

KB - i think what your trying to say is that instead of throwing big money at CJ now and handcuffing our abilities to add elite talent in the future, we should hold onto some loose cash for a year or two when the team will be 1 superstar signing away from being a SB contender then go after that 1 missing piece? makes sense and i concur.

go skins!

Thanks. That is what I was trying to say. We've been making trades and spending wildly in free agency for too long with very little in the way of championship-like results. I think two VERY GOOD drafts will get us to a point where we can acquire that big superstar as the last piece.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by KB24

Thanks. That is what I was trying to say. We've been making trades and spending wildly in free agency for too long with very little in the way of championship-like results. I think two VERY GOOD drafts will get us to a point where we can acquire that big superstar as the last piece.

I understand your thinking but I still think you have to find a balance between the draft, free agency, and trades.

Is it too crazy to think that maybe the Skins are already close to being a contender in the NFC? I mean it's not like we're coming off a miserable season.

[Skinny Tee]

Originally Posted by KB24

Thanks. That is what I was trying to say. We've been making trades and spending wildly in free agency for too long with very little in the way of championship-like results. I think two VERY GOOD drafts will get us to a point where we can acquire that big superstar as the last piece.

Ain't that the truth.

I'd even like three whole drafts in which we have all our picks and use them on emerging talent, it's not like we can't sign UFA's also. After that we can take all the risks we want in the way of slinging draft picks around for big name veterans. We're just not at a point we can assume the risk that dominant teams have in the NFL.

[mooby]

I'm starting to believe this might not happen at all simply because Mike Brown is a stubborn a-hole lol, that story about him refusing all those picks so he could draft Akili Smith is very convincing. If CJ isn't traded at all then we should move on.

[skinsfan_nn]

Lewis wins back locker room....? Sounds like a little stretching of the truth. But who knows which way this thing unfolds between CJ and all his mouth. And the Bengals dead set on keeping the guy, one of the two parties is getting ready to eat some crow.

MARVIN WINS BACK THE LOCKER ROOM
Posted by Mike Florio on April 24, 2008, 6:48 p.m.

As the tug-o-war between the Cincinnati Bengals and receiver Chad Johnson continues with the piece of the rope with the strip of an old T-shirt tied around it not moving from the midpoint between the two sides, the Bengals have scored a major victory among the other players on the team.

Per a league source, coach Marvin Lewis won back the locker room with his Tuesday verbal bitch-slapping of Johnson.

“He’s stated without an opportunity to go to a different team and a new contract, he wasn’t going to play,” Lewis said to the media two days ago. “I think he’s a man of his word. He says he’s not going to play, so don’t play.”

It’s a significant development for Lewis, who had gradually squandered the support of the other players by coddling Chad. The low point came in January 2006, when Lewis did nothing in response to Johnson’s halftime meltdown in the locker room.

Regardless of whether Johnson punched Lewis or receivers coach Hue Jackson or Johnson had Jackson in a headlock or Jackson had Johnson in a headlock or the Iron Sheik had Hacksaw Jim Duggan in a sleeper hold, the incident marred the twelve-minute intermission of a playoff game that the Bengals were leading at the end of the second quarter, preventing the team from maximizing the available time to make adjustments aimed at also leading the game at the end of the fourth.

Per the source, one player’s reaction was that Lewis should have gone even farther. “He should have told Chad that he’d pack up his stuff and send it to him,” the player said, “or that he’d just go ahead and send it all to Canton.”

[Ruhskins]

ProFootballTalk.com - MARVIN WINS BACK THE LOCKER ROOM

This makes me laugh (both the PFT story and the Bengals). A lot of you have good arguments against us getting CJ, and well maybe we should not get him (given your arguments). With that said, I still think the Bengals need to trade him to any team. You mean to tell me that 10 players get arrested on your team...and then only player that gets "verbally bitch-slapped" by the coach is the selfish player thant won't shut his mouth? This is too funny. Are the Bengals becoming the new Browns? LOL.

[SBXVII]

Unfortunatly this is funny. LOL. Watch us draft a top WR in the draft and in the end Cincy is tired of his crap to want to trade for something. Perhaps the same deal but only starting next yr. Then we would have two top WR. LOL.

I wonder if the Skins pick a WR or player that Cincy wants in the draft only to piss them off so they will be more inclined to trade CJ for the draft pick we stole.

[SmootSmack]

"I will take the criticism," Johnson said. "I will stick by my guns, and I will not be there. I feel things need to be done to make this team better. I don't blame Marvin Lewis. I love him. You have never heard me say one bad thing about my coaches or teammates. I know it's not up to Coach Lewis. Whether I'm traded, or if we get better players, is not up to him. If it was up to Coach Lewis, then he would do it."

Since the end of last season, Johnson has been lobbying for a trade even though he agreed to a long-term deal with the Bengals two years ago, when the Bengals went 11-5 and won the AFC North. But the team has struggled since, finishing 8-8 in 2006 and 7-9 last season, and missing the playoffs both years.

"What's changed for me is that I don't feel that we can compete," Johnson said. "Look at Cleveland and what they are doing to win. The Patriots and Indianapolis are going for a ring every year. When going for a ring, it all starts at the top. We need to do more and bring in more. We're staying the same. Yes, we have good players, but we need great players. We need defense. They say the money is tied up on offense; I'm not buying it. Look at others teams who are doing it, like Cleveland."

Johnson: 'I don't feel that we can compete'

[riggins44]

I'm not a big fan of CJ. However, if we make the trade and
he is wearing the burgundy and gold...I will support him.

Love my Redskins and will support whoever is on the team.

[Skinny Tee]

Originally Posted by riggins44

I'm not a big fan of CJ. However, if we make the trade and
he is wearing the burgundy and gold...I will support him.

Love my Redskins and will support whoever is on the team.

That goes without saying. We'll all be cheering for whoever is on the squad come Kickoff Sunday.

[Ruhskins]

Originally Posted by riggins44

I'm not a big fan of CJ. However, if we make the trade and
he is wearing the burgundy and gold...I will support him.

Love my Redskins and will support whoever is on the team.

Same here....unlike someone who said that they hoped the Redskins got charged with tampering for trying get the CJ trade...I'm sorry that is just ignorant to say.

I will support my team regardless...heck I've (and all of us) been supporting the team even through the years with losing records.

[EXoffender]

Yes but, not for us. If we were real close to being a SB contender, I'd be all for it. CJ brings immediate production and would make our offense supercharged. But consider a newly installed west-coast playbook it may be money wasted.