Redskins trade for Jason Taylor (updated)

[GhettoDogAllStars]

A decent article outlining the thoughts of the NFL Network analysts about the Jason Taylor trade:

Good deal: Dolphins, Redskins, and Taylor all winners

Deion Sanders:
"Washington already had a solid defense and this just adds to it."

Steve Mariucci:
"I understand why it took so long to get a deal done. To give away a second-round pick for a guy that stated he may only play one year; you expect a player acquired for a second-rounder to play four to five years on your team. I’m sure the Redskins discussed with him about playing more than one year."

Brian Ball-dinger:
"[Jason Taylor] changes games. He’s instantly the best pass rusher in that division; he’s the most complete."

Rich Eisen:
"Jason Taylor gets a chance for a ring. Miami gets a second-round pick and the Redskins get one of the game's best."

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

I like John Clayton a lot, I really do, but when I read this, I instantly thought of Steve Phillips prediction the '08 Detroit Tigers would score 1000 runs this year.

I thought that was a bit overzealous as well. They are on pace for 806 runs this year. However, Phillips tends to use emotion with his predictions while Clayton is more level headed. Clayton is right A LOT. While he didn't guarentee a 50 sack season, he did say we could be close. To me, 45 is close, and 48 would be amazing!

Not going to happen. I'd be happy with a 5 sack improvement on the 33 figure from last year.

I do not think a 5 sack improvement would be something I'd be happy with. We need more than that. We have complained about our pass rush for a while, and while 33 was an improvement last year, it was not what we were looking for. Let us not forget that Taylor outsacked Carter last year. With those two together, they should create A LOT of disruption.

[Drift Reality]

I have mixed feelings about the trade. I like the fact that we got a guy who is a veteran leader who probably still has some gas left in the tank and can bring a consistent defensive presence to that left-side, which we lacked last year. I also like the fact that we didn't give up a 1st rounder for him.

Now, I don't like the fact that we were relying on a 34-year old to start on that side and didn't have any depth at such an important position so we had to make a typical 'reactive' move.

To me, it would have been proactive to use one of our early draft picks on a DE.

If you asked me would I rather have:

Scenario #1 - Devin Thomas, Malcolm Kelly, Fred Davis, Jason Taylor

or

Scenario #2 - Devin Thomas, Calais Campbell, Fred Davis, 2nd round pick, 6th round pick

I would choose scenario #2.

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by Drift Reality

I have mixed feelings about the trade. I like the fact that we got a guy who is a veteran leader who probably still has some gas left in the tank and can bring a consistent defensive presence to that left-side, which we lacked last year. I also like the fact that we didn't give up a 1st rounder for him.

Now, I don't like the fact that we were relying on a 34-year old to start on that side and didn't have any depth at such an important position so we had to make a typical 'reactive' move.

To me, it would have been proactive to use one of our early draft picks on a DE.

If you asked me would I rather have:

Scenario #1 - Devin Thomas, Malcolm Kelly, Fred Davis, Jason Taylor

or

Scenario #2 - Devin Thomas, Calais Campbell, Fred Davis, 2nd round pick, 6th round pick

I would choose scenario #2.

This post reminds me of the old saying..."learn to accept the things you can not change". We didn't do scenario 2, so we have to move on and work with what we have. I love the move personally. It's one of those rare moves that is a complete slam dunk for both teams.

Don't forget, there could have been a scenario 3 where we traded away a first rounder, or even a second rounder and another higher pick. I think the team did well with showing patience for a change.

[That Guy]

Originally Posted by Drift Reality

I have mixed feelings about the trade. I like the fact that we got a guy who is a veteran leader who probably still has some gas left in the tank and can bring a consistent defensive presence to that left-side, which we lacked last year. I also like the fact that we didn't give up a 1st rounder for him.

Now, I don't like the fact that we were relying on a 34-year old to start on that side and didn't have any depth at such an important position so we had to make a typical 'reactive' move.

To me, it would have been proactive to use one of our early draft picks on a DE.

If you asked me would I rather have:

Scenario #1 - Devin Thomas, Malcolm Kelly, Fred Davis, Jason Taylor

or

Scenario #2 - Devin Thomas, Calais Campbell, Fred Davis, 2nd round pick, 6th round pick

I would choose scenario #2.

we'll see how campbell does, but as a prospect the keywords were slow and lazy....i mean, was it 8 reps of 225 when he weighs 280? yikes. the production wasn't great and the numbers were terrible.

[Drift Reality]

Originally Posted by That Guy

we'll see how campbell does, but as a prospect the keywords were slow and lazy....i mean, was it 8 reps of 225 when he weighs 280? yikes. the production wasn't great and the numbers were terrible.

I'm sorry but in my opinion the measurables like bench and 40 time aren't really that important.

The measurable I would be concerned with is the 10.5 sacks he registered playing at the U (and the fact that he was a standout at the U).

Anyway, time will tell...

[Drift Reality]

Originally Posted by jsarno

This post reminds me of the old saying..."learn to accept the things you can not change". We didn't do scenario 2, so we have to move on and work with what we have. I love the move personally. It's one of those rare moves that is a complete slam dunk for both teams.

Don't forget, there could have been a scenario 3 where we traded away a first rounder, or even a second rounder and another higher pick. I think the team did well with showing patience for a change.

It could always be worse. But I don't think we should base our expectations on the least common denominator though.

Again, I just said I had mixed feelings. I think he will be a solid contributor if healthy this year and next year.

I feel like they could have realized their lack of depth at this position earlier and tried to bolster this position. That's all I'm saying.

[DIRTEE]

I would definitely go with scenario #1. If you're looking at stats from last year -- hands down the defense was ahead of the offense. The focus was on improving the offense. We have always had a solid defense, two DE's injured on the first day of training is pretty rare. Just like last year losing two starting OL , that's pretty rare. Luckily we had cap space to sign Jason Taylor, now that's planning!!!

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by Drift Reality

Now, I don't like the fact that we were relying on a 34-year old to start on that side and didn't have any depth at such an important position so we had to make a typical 'reactive' move.

To me, it would have been proactive to use one of our early draft picks on a DE.

If you asked me would I rather have:

Scenario #1 - Devin Thomas, Malcolm Kelly, Fred Davis, Jason Taylor

or

Scenario #2 - Devin Thomas, Calais Campbell, Fred Davis, 2nd round pick, 6th round pick

I would choose scenario #2.

And that statement, plus the fact that "40 times and bench press aren't that important" is why I'm thankful you're not our GM. While speed is not essential for a LDE, strength certainly is. When a guy is supposed to be an NFL caliber LDE and he posts the WORST bench numbers at the combine, that's a major red flag.

To clarify That Guy's bench #s: Campbell put up 8 reps at 225lbs in Jan 2008, at the combine in April he put up 16 reps at 225lbs (still the worst of all D-linemen).

You make the assumption in Scenario # 2 that Campbell would be able to step in and start for Daniels today. That assumption is dead wrong, whether Campbell eventually turns into a productive player or not (he won't IMO) we would still have to fill Daniels' spot NOW even with Campbell here. And worse, what if Campbell is a bust (good probability).

So now your Scenario #2 looks like this:
D. Thomas, bust and/or still a need at LDE, Fred Davis, 2nd Rounder & 6th rounder.

[Drift Reality]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

And that statement, plus the fact that "40 times and bench press aren't that important" is why I'm thankful you're not our GM. While speed is not essential for a LDE, strength certainly is. When a guy is supposed to be an NFL caliber LDE and he posts the WORST bench numbers at the combine, that's a major red flag.

To clarify That Guy's bench #s: Campbell put up 8 reps at 225lbs in Jan 2008, at the combine in April he put up 16 reps at 225lbs (still the worst of all D-linemen).

You make the assumption in Scenario # 2 that Campbell would be able to step in and start for Daniels today. That assumption is dead wrong, whether Campbell eventually turns into a productive player or not (he won't IMO) we would still have to fill Daniels' spot NOW even with Campbell here. And worse, what if Campbell is a bust (good probability).

So now your Scenario #2 looks like this:
D. Thomas, bust and/or still a need at LDE, Fred Davis, 2nd Rounder & 6th rounder.

I'm guessing you don't know much about football. What did Reggie White bench? What did LT bench?

Ask anyone who knows football about the importance of bench. Players don't lay on a bench and lift weights in the NFL - they get on a field and knock heads.

[DIRTEE]

Drift Reality - Please tell me you are joking. Its apparent that everyone on the warpath knows about football, and I'm friends with a few NFL players and they workout all the time.

But to answer your questions (someone please turn this into a poll); I have no clue what Reggie White benched (God bless him) and I can only imagine that Lawrence Taylor benched about 100 kilos of crack rock and squatted about 100 prostitutes. Nate Newton even had a nice offseason workout.

[Sheriff Gonna Getcha]

I think the bench press is one way of measuring how much upper body strength a prospect has. Moreover, upper body strength is of obvious importance to defensive linemen.

However, sometimes draft prospects underperform due to lingering injuries, or because they are just having a bad day. Moreover, some defensive ends who don't bench 225 pounds 35 times manage to do quite well against the run and the pass. Consider the below snippet about Terrell Suggs.

SUGGS WORKOUT HURTS DRAFT STOCK

Suggs was a dominating defensive end in the college ranks, but at 6-foot-3 3/8 and 257 pounds, which he measured in at during his workout, he probably doesn't have the size to get it done week after week in the NFL.

Strength was also not on Suggs' side, as he managed just 19 reps during bench press drills. In the 40-yard dash, his times were a very pedestrian 4.84 and 4.88. He had a 33.5" vertical jump, 9-foot-0 broad jump, 32 7/8" arm length, 7.46 three-cone drill and 4.37 and 4.47 short shuttle. Whether he's just a poor workout player or what not, teams are definitely going to be forced to think twice come draft day and this workout probably pushed him out of the top five selections.

[GhettoDogAllStars]

Originally Posted by DIRTEE

...I can only imagine that Lawrence Taylor benched about 100 kilos of crack rock and squatted about 100 prostitutes.

LOL. Great visual.

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by Drift Reality

It could always be worse. But I don't think we should base our expectations on the least common denominator though.

Again, I just said I had mixed feelings. I think he will be a solid contributor if healthy this year and next year.

I feel like they could have realized their lack of depth at this position earlier and tried to bolster this position. That's all I'm saying.

well, I definitely hear ya on that one...a lot of us have been saying this for a long long long time.

On a side note, If both guys stay healthy, I can see Carter / Taylor combining for a good 25 sacks this year...maybe more. No longer will Carter see double teams, and if one doesn't make the QB, the other will. It's exciting to think we will create pressure.

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by Drift Reality

I'm guessing you don't know much about football. What did Reggie White bench? What did LT bench?

Ask anyone who knows football about the importance of bench. Players don't lay on a bench and lift weights in the NFL - they get on a field and knock heads.

I won't bother to respond to your first statement. Your posts are speaking for themselves.

I don't have Reggie's bench numbers but I trust Mike Golic in that he played in the NFL for several seasons and on the same DL as RW for most. He has mentioned several times that RW was an "unbelievable combination of strength and speed". If I'm not mistaken he was consistently one of the strongest, if not the strongest, on the Eagles & Packers teams he played on. LT while not a strong as White, had ridiculous speed and well above average strength. He played LB not LDE. For LDE strength is extremely important.

No one is implying that you should just get the guys with the strongest bench numbers and plug them in. But if "anyone who knows football" thinks bench is unimportant, why is it done at the combine, with every NFL team in attendance. The NFL folks are pretty busy guys and wouldn't waste their time on a drill/test that is not important.

I've mentioned this before also, C. Campbell's D-Line coach in 2006 is on staff at Redskins Park. If he was available at a reasonable position in the draft (he was) and the Skins didn't take him, that tells me all I need to know.

Prior to the combine I was high on C. Campbell also, his size looks great, sack total looks good, but his combine performance and scouting report negatives sent up huge red flags.