Iran Supplying Weapons to Iraq?

[Hog1]

No action anywhere in the world by us=9/11 once a month

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by Hog1

No action anywhere in the world by us=9/11 once a month

That may be dramatic, but I totally get your point.

These people want to kill us whether we come back home or whether we fight them overseas. They have a war mentality. Just because we withdraw, or "keep our noses out of others' business", doesn't mean they won't try to kill us.

It's a WAR.

[Hog1]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

That may be dramatic, but I totally get your point.

These people want to kill us whether we come back home or whether we fight them overseas. They have a war mentality. Just because we withdraw, or "keep our noses out of others' business", doesn't mean they won't try to kill us.

It's a WAR.

True, a little dramatic.
I think the mistake many Americans, Europeans tend to make is the desire to make all this make sense. It doesn't. I try to ply my American values of live, and let live, do unto others.....etc. to this situation, and guess what. It does not compute. The idea that another race/country, countries wants to kill me, my family, my people (Americans) is ridiculous, outrageous!!!! Does this really exist? Hell, yes. Moreover, by their acts, they have proven to be relentless and ruthless hunters wanting nothing more from their lives than to take part in the ultimate violence against there enemies..........us, and those like us. It's wierd, but that seems to be all they understand. I do not condemn all muslims, or all of anybody. I do think ALL muslims and anyone else that fits that "profile" bear closer scrutiny in airport security than someone's 84 year old Irish mom. Is that a violation of someone elses civil rights? Racial Profiling? Who cares. When Irish old ladies start bombing the next tower wherever, I want them profiled, and searched accordingly. The rules changed Sepember 11, 2001. If we allow it, political correctness will kill us all

[saden1]

I don't see you mofos signing up to serve and here you are advocating we open up another front to a war already going very badly. It's easy to say, it's a lot harder to do.

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by saden1

I don't see you mofos signing up to server and here you are advocating we open up another front to a war already going very badly. It's easy to say, it's a lot harder to do.

Exactly.

[Monkeydad]

What we SHOULD do is send a strong message to Iran now...enough of this U.N. diplomacy thathas proven to not only fail, but actually helps strengthen the enemies by giving them more time to stock up and prepare. We should bomb Iran's nuclear facilities, which will:

1. Say "we're serious...if you help kill Americans, we'll kill you."
2. Take away their ability to retaliate or go after Israel with nukes, which is something they would defiinately do.
3. Prevent terrorists anywhere from getting nukes.
4. Reinforce the fact that we are the world's military superpower, not a "paper tiger" like bin Laden called us during the Clinton years.

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by Buster

What we SHOULD do is send a strong message to Iran now...enough of this U.N. diplomacy thathas proven to not only fail, but actually helps strengthen the enemies by giving them more time to stock up and prepare. We should bomb Iran's nuclear facilities, which will:

1. Say "we're serious...if you help kill Americans, we'll kill you."
2. Take away their ability to retaliate or go after Israel with nukes, which is something they would defiinately do.
3. Prevent terrorists anywhere from getting nukes.
4. Reinforce the fact that we are the world's military superpower, not a "paper tiger" like bin Laden called us during the Clinton years.

Buster, two years ago I would have agreed with you. But we've emboldened terrorists around the globe. Every day this war in Iraq lingers, more terrorists come out of the woodwork.

Our miscalculation in Iraq has caused us to lose a lot of credibilty within the international community, and it's damn near impossible to prevent terrorists from getting their hands on nukes these days.

Next on deck, North Korea?

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

Buster, two years ago I would have agreed with you. But we've emboldened terrorists around the globe. Every day this war in Iraq lingers, more terrorists come out of the woodwork.

Our miscalculation in Iraq has caused us to lose a lot of credibilty within the international community, and it's damn near impossible to prevent terrorists from getting their hands on nukes these days.

Next on deck, North Korea?

Do you think backing out of Iraq would really un-embolden them??

No matter whether we stay or go, they're going to try to kill us. It's a war. Kill them, or kill us. It takes two sides to end a war. Just because we leave Iraq doesn't mean they'll stop the war.

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

Do you think backing out of Iraq would really un-embolden them??

No matter whether we stay or go, they're going to try to kill us. It's a war. Kill them, or kill us. It takes two sides to end a war. Just because we leave Iraq doesn't mean they'll stop the war.

I don't think there is an easy answer to that question. Just like pointing missles at Iran isn't an easy solution either.

[dmek25]

Originally Posted by Buster

What we SHOULD do is send a strong message to Iran now...enough of this U.N. diplomacy thathas proven to not only fail, but actually helps strengthen the enemies by giving them more time to stock up and prepare. We should bomb Iran's nuclear facilities, which will:

1. Say "we're serious...if you help kill Americans, we'll kill you."
2. Take away their ability to retaliate or go after Israel with nukes, which is something they would definitely do.
3. Prevent terrorists anywhere from getting nukes.
4. Reinforce the fact that we are the world's military superpower, not a "paper tiger" like bin Laden called us during the Clinton years.

are you living with your head in the sand? lets start with #4. i agree with becoming the worlds only super power. president bush had a chance to do this by bombing Afghanistan immediately following 9-11. how do you propose to accomplish #3? there was so mush uranium unaccounted for by Russia after it originally disbanded that makes this impossible.with #2, i think all nuclear power should be kept under close scrutiny, not just the middle east. and i agree with number one, but there isn't any administration willing to uphold this hardline stance. Iraq was what was going to be president Bush's legacy. now, with the miscalculations, it turned into his nightmare. just like the old saying goes, you step on the bees nest, you stir up the whole hive.

[Daseal]

Is anyone looking at this from their point of view? In the 9/11 attacks we lose 2,819 people (New York Magazine. In Iraq, over the course of this war they've lost between 56,023 and 61,736 civilians. I'm sorry if this sounds brash, but we've been damn lucky that a) 9/11 only killed 2,819 people, and that attacks like that don't happen on a more regular basis. 9/11 happens in these countries every couple months, and often we're involved in some way. I don't think it takes rocket science to see why these people hate us. Most of them were living their lives, and yes Saddam wasn't a great ruler by any stretch, but most families weren't losing children, mothers, and fathers from a bomb that goes off course or the escalated violence in the area, this is why they hate us. Their towns are in ruins, many of their family members are dead, and we are directly responsible.

How would you guys support it if, lets say... France, decided that George W. Bush was a dictator and not fit to run the country. The first thing they do is bomb the shit out of our infrastructure. Goodbye power grid, goodbye bridges, cut the fiber-optic backbones going into the country (much like we did in Iraq), kill the telephone lines. Then bomb military outposts. You'd be enraged, a violation of our 'civil rights'. I guess at some point, we need to stop forcing our ways on others. We're the world's Jehovah's witnesses, going door to door, uninvited, and pushing our agenda on someone else.

Then people bitch about car bombs, etc. It's how you win when you're undermanned. They can't just gear up and fight us, they'd get crushed. If we want to go rolling into war, especially with groups instead of sovereign states, we need to expect guerrilla warfare. It's the only effective means for people to fight back, and we can't start a war and expect everyone to drop their weapons and convert to us.

This isn't meant to offend anyone, I'm just asking you to step back from being an American, and put yourself in someone else's shoes. 9/11 was a tragedy, but the loss of human life wasn't near what many countries see on a regular basis. We've been extremely lucky with thwarting such attacks, and in my opinion, pissing more people off isn't the best way to stop them. Many experts say that the Iraq war has done little but breed more terrorists.

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by Daseal

Is anyone looking at this from their point of view? In the 9/11 attacks we lose 2,819 people (New York Magazine. In Iraq, over the course of this war they've lost between 56,023 and 61,736 civilians. I'm sorry if this sounds brash, but we've been damn lucky that a) 9/11 only killed 2,819 people, and that attacks like that don't happen on a more regular basis. 9/11 happens in these countries every couple months, and often we're involved in some way. I don't think it takes rocket science to see why these people hate us. Most of them were living their lives, and yes Saddam wasn't a great ruler by any stretch, but most families weren't losing children, mothers, and fathers from a bomb that goes off course or the escalated violence in the area, this is why they hate us. Their towns are in ruins, many of their family members are dead, and we are directly responsible.

How would you guys support it if, lets say... France, decided that George W. Bush was a dictator and not fit to run the country. The first thing they do is bomb the shit out of our infrastructure. Goodbye power grid, goodbye bridges, cut the fiber-optic backbones going into the country (much like we did in Iraq), kill the telephone lines. Then bomb military outposts. You'd be enraged, a violation of our 'civil rights'. I guess at some point, we need to stop forcing our ways on others. We're the world's Jehovah's witnesses, going door to door, uninvited, and pushing our agenda on someone else.

Then people bitch about car bombs, etc. It's how you win when you're undermanned. They can't just gear up and fight us, they'd get crushed. If we want to go rolling into war, especially with groups instead of sovereign states, we need to expect guerrilla warfare. It's the only effective means for people to fight back, and we can't start a war and expect everyone to drop their weapons and convert to us.

This isn't meant to offend anyone, I'm just asking you to step back from being an American, and put yourself in someone else's shoes. 9/11 was a tragedy, but the loss of human life wasn't near what many countries see on a regular basis. We've been extremely lucky with thwarting such attacks, and in my opinion, pissing more people off isn't the best way to stop them. Many experts say that the Iraq war has done little but breed more terrorists.

You make a good point about Sadaam. Although his leadership was questionable and to some intolerable, can we really say that Iraq is better of now that he's removed?

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

You make a good point about Sadaam. Although his leadership was questionable and to some intolerable, can we really say that Iraq is better of now that he's removed?

Who cares. The question is are WE better off.

[Monkeydad]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

You make a good point about Sadaam. Although his leadership was questionable and to some intolerable, can we really say that Iraq is better of now that he's removed?

Saddam Hussein killer file

[Hog1]

Originally Posted by Daseal

Is anyone looking at this from their point of view? In the 9/11 attacks we lose 2,819 people (New York Magazine. In Iraq, over the course of this war they've lost between 56,023 and 61,736 civilians. I'm sorry if this sounds brash, but we've been damn lucky that a) 9/11 only killed 2,819 people, and that attacks like that don't happen on a more regular basis. 9/11 happens in these countries every couple months, and often we're involved in some way. I don't think it takes rocket science to see why these people hate us. Most of them were living their lives, and yes Saddam wasn't a great ruler by any stretch, but most families weren't losing children, mothers, and fathers from a bomb that goes off course or the escalated violence in the area, this is why they hate us. Their towns are in ruins, many of their family members are dead, and we are directly responsible.

How would you guys support it if, lets say... France, decided that George W. Bush was a dictator and not fit to run the country. The first thing they do is bomb the shit out of our infrastructure. Goodbye power grid, goodbye bridges, cut the fiber-optic backbones going into the country (much like we did in Iraq), kill the telephone lines. Then bomb military outposts. You'd be enraged, a violation of our 'civil rights'. I guess at some point, we need to stop forcing our ways on others. We're the world's Jehovah's witnesses, going door to door, uninvited, and pushing our agenda on someone else.

Then people bitch about car bombs, etc. It's how you win when you're undermanned. They can't just gear up and fight us, they'd get crushed. If we want to go rolling into war, especially with groups instead of sovereign states, we need to expect guerrilla warfare. It's the only effective means for people to fight back, and we can't start a war and expect everyone to drop their weapons and convert to us.

This isn't meant to offend anyone, I'm just asking you to step back from being an American, and put yourself in someone else's shoes. 9/11 was a tragedy, but the loss of human life wasn't near what many countries see on a regular basis. We've been extremely lucky with thwarting such attacks, and in my opinion, pissing more people off isn't the best way to stop them. Many experts say that the Iraq war has done little but breed more terrorists.

And, I'm not offended by your post or opinion. However, I think much of what America thinks is what is delivered by the media spin. Our media would have you believe that the mainstream Iraqi does not want us there. We are not helping. They don't need us. That our troops do not think this war is just, they are ill-prepared, etc.
As far as I know to say Sadaam was not the greatest leader may a bit understated, as to how many of his own people is credited with killing?? 100,000+? Are you suggesting that US troops have killed 60k innocent civilians?
When you get outside the mainstream media party line, the story changes a bit. I have read (like many of you) many accounts from US troops, and Iraqi civilians that tell a story that not only do they want us there, that the large percentage of Iraqi's say they need us. That Sadaam was a satanical madman, and murderer who thought nothing of killing his own.
So to suggest that we invaded a country full of regular Joe's, and deposed a leader that was ???????? misunderstood, may not be an accurate description.
Frankly, I don't care what the radical forces that opposed us in that region think. They are the reason we are there