FISA with Telecom Immunity Passed

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

Very reasonable response. I think people think this bill allows wire tapping whenever the governement has a hunch and it's just not so. This version, whether one likes it or not, does have some checks and balances, much more oversight from the courts and congress, which won't allow the White House to run free willie with the Constitution.

If I'm currect they can tap a suspect but then they have to get a court order or something like that to continue tapping that person. I just feel that this is a war that the terrorist are fighting from within so we have to give the goverment some powers to track them. Its not like they are taking up arms and saying hey lets have a war and fight this out. They will atack from within when ever they get the chance so we have to do what ever we can to stop them. I also think this should have been done behind closed doors with both parties working it out. The way it was done now makes it known to the terrorist that the goverment has the power to tap their comunications. We allready have made public to many of the ways we are fighting terrorist.

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by firstdown

If I'm currect they can tap a suspect but then they have to get a court order or something like that to continue tapping that person. I just feel that this is a war that the terrorist are fighting from within so we have to give the goverment some powers to track them. Its not like they are taking up arms and saying hey lets have a war and fight this out. They will atack from within when ever they get the chance so we have to do what ever we can to stop them. I also think this should have been done behind closed doors with both parties working it out. The way it was done now makes it known to the terrorist that the goverment has the power to tap their comunications. We allready have made public to many of the ways we are fighting terrorist.

Basically, that is how it works. Basically. I fully expect this bill to come up again and be presented to Congress again if Obama get's in the White House. This isn't the last we've heard about this.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

Basically, that is how it works. Basically. I fully expect this bill to come up again and be presented to Congress again if Obama get's in the White House. This isn't the last we've heard about this.

Well Obama voted for the bill and if he thinks he is going to win the White House maybe he realized that he too will need this to fight terrorist.

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

Basically, that is how it works. Basically. I fully expect this bill to come up again and be presented to Congress again if Obama get's in the White House. This isn't the last we've heard about this.

The point about the Telecom immunity probably won't be able to be re-visited though, correct?

[Miller101]

Originally Posted by firstdown

I just don't see how this will involve many people and I know it won't affect anything in my life. All it does is give them the power to tap people of interest that have or they suspect to have terrorist ties. We have to remember that these people want to kill us and if it helps capture a few of theses guys then the bill has surved its purpose. Its not like they are going to tap each and every American to see what and who they are talking to.

No offense but thats bullcrud! We had a system in place! It was called GET A COURT ORDER! They didn't get a court order. THEY BROKE THE LAW!! And now they have immunity for it. Its just bullcrud! The whole thing is bullcrud!

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by Miller101

No offense but thats bullcrud! We had a system in place! It was called GET A COURT ORDER! They didn't get a court order. THEY BROKE THE LAW!! And now they have immunity for it. Its just bullcrud! The whole thing is bullcrud!

First off the President was using a law which gives him power to do things in a time of war. They used that as their way to tap people and some say he over reached and some said he was within his his powers. This judge said it was not illegal.

FISA Judge: Bush Wiretapping Broke No Law

[Miller101]

Originally Posted by firstdown

First off the President was using a law which gives him power to do things in a time of war. They used that as their way to tap people and some say he over reached and some said he was within his his powers. This judge said it was not illegal.

FISA Judge: Bush Wiretapping Broke No Law

WHAT!?!??! You actually believe that crap? The "Bush wiretapping broke no law" one.

If Bush's wiretapping broke no law then why is immunity included in this law THAT WAS JUST PASSED? It makes no sense dude! No offense, but this bill SUCKS!

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by Miller101

WHAT!?!??! You actually believe that crap? The "Bush wiretapping broke no law" one.

If Bush's wiretapping broke no law then why is immunity included in this law THAT WAS JUST PASSED? It makes no sense dude! No offense, but this bill SUCKS!

I haven't read the bill, but the immunity was for the telecom companies that cooperated with the governments requests/demands for information. I don't see how any rational person would think they should be liable.

[firstdown]

One thing I have noticed is that the people who had a problem with the gun rulling last week and supported gun bands now oppose this citing their constitutional right. The ones who liked the ruling about guns which they stated the 2nd now support this. So I guess we prove that people use the constitution as it fits their believes.

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by firstdown

One thing I have noticed is that the people who had a problem with the gun rulling last week and supported gun bands now oppose this citing their constitutional right. The ones who liked the ruling about guns which they stated the 2nd now support this. So I guess we prove that people use the constitution as it fits their believes.

Basically. We bend the Constitution to suit our needs. We're no better than the politians at the end of the day.

[dmek25]

saden, are you really bin laden?

[saden1]

Originally Posted by dmek25

saden, are you really bin laden?

No, I'm just paranoid mofo...I do use Skype so my liberties are pretty safe. I'm just pissed because this whole FISA thing is a f'ing sham. Might as well hope for security becasue terrorists on Skype can "win."

[cpayne5]

Originally Posted by saden1

It's about the algorithm used and the key size. Even at 1024-bit key size RSA encryption is trash when it comes to encrypting data. No one in their right mind would use it nowadays because it's susceptible to chosen-plaintext attacks and there are better encryption schemes out there. What you really want is AES (Rijndael) which the NSA approved for encrypting classified documents or Twofish which is even better.

Originally Posted by saden1

No, I'm just paranoid mofo...I do use Skype so my liberties are pretty safe. I'm just pissed because this whole FISA thing is a f'ing sham. Might as well hope for security becasue terrorists on Skype can "win."

Pretty safe is correct, I guess. Skype uses RSA for AES key negotiation. If you can in fact use a chosen plaintext attack on RSA, then by using AES for the actual data stream is kind of pointless (other than the performance gained), I would think. Once you get the agreed upon key, you can then trivially decrypt all communications between the two parties.

But that all rides on a successfully executed chosen text attack. I've never seen RSA broken in that fashion, and if it has been successfully done, I'd love to see some performance stats.

All of this is neither here nor there, though. You can have the strongest encryption in the world, but in the end humans are the ones using it. Generally speaking, humans are terrible at securing their security. That is why you do not need brute force, chosen text, distributed brute force, mathematical cracks, etc to break encryption. Bluntly, people are stupid and lazy.

[That Guy]

btw, the whole "get a court order" thing is a sham, cause the courts just rubber stamped everything, so it really didn't provide any oversight or checks on power.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by That Guy

btw, the whole "get a court order" thing is a sham, cause the courts just rubber stamped everything, so it really didn't provide any oversight or checks on power.

Your right on in that and all it really does is delay the process. That delay could cost lives.