For the Zorn / Campbell Excuse makers...

[Hail to the Redskins]

Originally Posted by 30gut

Hey bro, compare the offensive coordinators and QB coaches they have a bigger impact on the offense then the HC.
The only thing this information shows is that you don't know what you're talking about. And like comparing apples and oranges and potatoes.

Talk about not knowing what you are talking about... way to respond intelligently witha facts and reasoning..

Do you even know who our QB COACH IS???? it's one Jim Zorn!!!!

Our O-Coordinator?? I'll tell you... he is Zorn's best offensive buddy, Sherman Smith, who he HAND-PICKED BECAUSE THEY HAVE THE SAME OFFENSIVE PHILOSPHY!

Who calls the plays... wait.. you have to know this one right?? um, yup, that would be Zorn...

So you are basically implying that those teams have far superior OCs? Right? Well then you are just validating my point that Zorn needs no more excuses.. he just doesn't match up!!

But hey, good post... you obviously know what YOU are talking about

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Hail to the Redskins

Wow... have you not been paying attention this year at all?? I think on a weekly basis it is made fact that our running scheme was COMPLETELY unchanged from last year!! Ignorance?? Really??

You are right about one thing ... THAT running game, which Zorn had nothing to do with (other than deciding NOT to change it), has been the reason we have won at all this year

Except that 70% of our runs are zone scheme, compared to 0% last year.

But what kind of a change is that?

[Hail to the Redskins]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Except that 70% of our runs are zone scheme, compared to 0% last year.

But what kind of a change is that?

It's a change not coming from Zorn-Smith. It has been established that the running scheme hasn't been touched by the newbies. How the line blocks comes directly from Bugel...

[30gut]

Originally Posted by Hail to the Redskins

Talk about not knowing what you are talking about... way to respond intelligently witha facts and reasoning..

Do you even know who our QB COACH IS???? it's one Jim Zorn!!!!

Our O-Coordinator?? I'll tell you... he is Zorn's best offensive buddy, Sherman Smith, who he HAND-PICKED BECAUSE THEY HAVE THE SAME OFFENSIVE PHILOSPHY!

Who calls the plays... wait.. you have to know this one right?? um, yup, that would be Zorn...

So you are basically implying that those teams have far superior OCs? Right? Well then you are just validating my point that Zorn needs no more excuses.. he just doesn't match up!!

But hey, good post... you obviously know what YOU are talking about

You made my point for me.

Zorn is doing too much. He's basically the HC/QB coach/OC. All those other coaches had time to put together a staff of their choosing a luxury Zorn wasn't afforded. Where was Zorn supposed to find a veteran WCO OC and QB coach last minute?

Zorn is wearing three hats and all things considered is doing a decent job on a Redskins team most people wrote off at the start of the season.


At the start of the season the offense was good right?

JC has improved right?

Maybe the offense would still be effective if Zorn had at least 1 other coach to help with the in-game adjustments and weekly gameplanning/play design?

How about you realize how much Zorn has accomplished and give him another year?

[Hail to the Redskins]

Best excuse for Zorn this far... too much going on (installing passing offense, QB development, play calling, etc. on TOP of HC duties...) ... but ... what does he do as HC? Blache completely runs the D, he has Sherman Smith and Meidt there with him to install offense and has a BUNCH of experienced players on offense who will tell you that that a new offense to them is not THAT huge a deal (aka Atlanta, Baltimore, & Miami outscoring us by far)

Maybe you are right, though, seriously... good post... that what I started this post for... logical, factual responses... not people going on the attack with no real logical, factual argument why

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Hail to the Redskins

It's a change not coming from Zorn-Smith. It has been established that the running scheme hasn't been touched by the newbies. How the line blocks comes directly from Bugel...

Well, then Bugel changed it. Because it's different.

I don't see why Bugel would all of a sudden change up a blocking scheme, and maybe he was being forced to use man blocking schemes under Gibbs, but Zorn comes in and we start using blocking schemes more commonly used in the WCO anyway.

I don't know why this is surprising. Coach comes in, puts in some new running plays we didn't have before, media doesn't notice. Seems fairly standard to me.

[53Fan]

To be honest, I think these kind of threads are dumb as shit and serve no purpose other than to be even MORE negative. By this reasoning Andy Reid, Jimmy Johnson, Bill Walsh, Joe Gibbs#1 and many, MANY other coaches should have been fired their first year because they did'nt have winning records either. This kind of blanket thinking is ignorance at its best.

[GTripp0012]

Perhaps the 30% of man blocking plays are simply pulled straight from the Gibbs' playbook? Maybe that portion of the running game is literally unchanged.

Those blocking schemes have been pretty ineffective this year.

[sportscurmudgeon]

I want to take exception to one part of the logic here. This argumentation here lays the blame on the offense and says nothing about the defense

Before anyone jumps up and down and screams about the Skins being a "Top 10 defense" this year, understand that stats like that provide comfort only to losing teams. Any team that is 10-4 now and comfortably in the playoffs, is not looking at - nor does it care - where it ranks on total defense.

In THREE games this year (Cowboys, Ravens, Bengals) the Skins were in position to win/tie the game in the 4th quarter and the opposition took possession of the ball in the opposition's end of the field. What was needed was a "three-and-out"; the Skins could even have lived with giving up a first down and then forcing a punt. But NO...

In all three games, the opposition offense took the ball and ran off between 12 and 15 plays and ate up most of the clock - - and in the Bengals and Ravens game they scored at the end of that big drive. [Can't recall what happened at the end of the 4th quarter Cowboys' drive when Barber carried the ball about a zillion times in a row.]

The defense - players and coaches but mostly the players - had the ball run down their throats or they gave up a pass over the middle and didn't make a tackle on third and long to allow those drives to continue - - and continue - - and continue.

"Top 10 defenses" make things happen when it really matters; and what they make happen is not allowing a drive to consume 7 minutes of the fourth quarter and end in a score for the other guys.

Oh, by the way, the same Skins defense has been so good in first quarters recently that in the last three games the Skins have been outscored in the first quarter 38-0. That means the defense has given up six scores in the first quarter of the last three games. That STINKS!

In the second and third quarters, they don't allow a lot of yards; that's what keeps them in the "Top 10". Whoop - de - damned - dooo!

When it matters - - at the beginning of the game when it is 0-0 on the scorebard and in the fourth quarter when they need a STOP - - the defense has not done the job. You can fawn all over the players and vote for them to go to the Pro Bowl and sniff their jocks, but they haven't gotten the job done when it mattered this season. Deal with it!

Jason Campbell, Clinton Portis - - name your favorite Redskins' offensive player from the past - - can't do a whole lot when they spend half of the fourth quarter sitting on their asses on the sidelines waiting to get the ball. When it matters, this defensive unit has not delivered the goods.

Coaches to blame? Somewhat. Players to blame? More than coaching. The roster of the team itself to blame? Somewhat.

There needs to be a major overhaul to this roster. Of course, that was needed last year too and the overhaul that happened was that the Skins kept all of their draft picks on the roster even though only one of them can play right now. That's not a positive step. And that should give fans the biggest pause...

The roster needs an overhaul - - but do the people in charge of assembling the roster actually know what it needed here and where to look to find pieces to the puzzle to make it better? Recent evidence does not suggest that they do...

[30gut]

Originally Posted by Hail to the Redskins

4) Washington Redskins - Rookie HC, returning QB in new PASSING system (same running) - 9-7 last year, 7-7 this year
* 1-5 over last 6 games... improving??
* 2-2 vs Rams, Lions, Seahawks, Bengals with a point diff. of +2!!!!
* PF - 231 PA - 266

5) Aaron Rogers, Matt Cassel, Jay Cutler - All QB's same age/experience as Campbell (or less) outplaying (by far) Campbell.

Basically, this information tells you that you'd be crazy to say that the blame for this season is not Zorn or Campbell (or both). We have a better defense than Falcons & Dolphins (with more experience), much better offensive weapons than the Ravens, and are the only team with the same running system as last year with a stud RB. The excuses about Campbell being "young" and needing to "learn" is a huge load of BS... and Zorn's sole responsibility this year has been Campbell and the passing offense which happens to be the absolute worst facet of the team... anyone??

There is so much wrong with this portion of your post its not even worth it....

Aaron Rodger has a losing record so should he and McCarthy take the 'blame' for GB's season?

Rodgers/Cassel/Cutler are in the same system w/ experienced HC/OC/QB coaches.

Its argueable if we have better 'weapons' then the Ravens, but do we have a better offensive line?

Zorn's sole responsibility has been Campbell and the passing offense? 1) Hasn't Campbell improved? Campbell was being considered for league MVP a few weeks ago.
2) A HC doesn't have a 'sole' responsibility he's worried about the whole team.
Also Zorn is installing a new offense from the very first play. All the other teams you mentioned have veteran OC that brought their proven offenses scheme with them; Zorn is installing a new system with a new OC.

Clearly you're comparing apples and grapes here

[Eknox]

This has everything to do with a team that does not believe in investing in the trenches o line and d line..no Coach can win without protection for the QB and pressure from the other side oof the ball....I think we play soft and scared and we need to model ourselves after teams like Pitt and Baltimore that come to knock you out every game..and they have o lines and d lines ....

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by sportscurmudgeon

I want to take exception to one part of the logic here. This argumentation here lays the blame on the offense and says nothing about the defense

Before anyone jumps up and down and screams about the Skins being a "Top 10 defense" this year, understand that stats like that provide comfort only to losing teams. Any team that is 10-4 now and comfortably in the playoffs, is not looking at - nor does it care - where it ranks on total defense.

In THREE games this year (Cowboys, Ravens, Bengals) the Skins were in position to win/tie the game in the 4th quarter and the opposition took possession of the ball in the opposition's end of the field. What was needed was a "three-and-out"; the Skins could even have lived with giving up a first down and then forcing a punt. But NO...

In all three games, the opposition offense took the ball and ran off between 12 and 15 plays and ate up most of the clock - - and in the Bengals and Ravens game they scored at the end of that big drive. [Can't recall what happened at the end of the 4th quarter Cowboys' drive when Barber carried the ball about a zillion times in a row.]

The defense - players and coaches but mostly the players - had the ball run down their throats or they gave up a pass over the middle and didn't make a tackle on third and long to allow those drives to continue - - and continue - - and continue.

"Top 10 defenses" make things happen when it really matters; and what they make happen is not allowing a drive to consume 7 minutes of the fourth quarter and end in a score for the other guys.

Oh, by the way, the same Skins defense has been so good in first quarters recently that in the last three games the Skins have been outscored in the first quarter 38-0. That means the defense has given up six scores in the first quarter of the last three games. That STINKS!

In the second and third quarters, they don't allow a lot of yards; that's what keeps them in the "Top 10". Whoop - de - damned - dooo!

When it matters - - at the beginning of the game when it is 0-0 on the scorebard and in the fourth quarter when they need a STOP - - the defense has not done the job. You can fawn all over the players and vote for them to go to the Pro Bowl and sniff their jocks, but they haven't gotten the job done when it mattered this season. Deal with it!

Jason Campbell, Clinton Portis - - name your favorite Redskins' offensive player from the past - - can't do a whole lot when they spend half of the fourth quarter sitting on their asses on the sidelines waiting to get the ball. When it matters, this defensive unit has not delivered the goods.

Coaches to blame? Somewhat. Players to blame? More than coaching. The roster of the team itself to blame? Somewhat.

There needs to be a major overhaul to this roster. Of course, that was needed last year too and the overhaul that happened was that the Skins kept all of their draft picks on the roster even though only one of them can play right now. That's not a positive step. And that should give fans the biggest pause...

The roster needs an overhaul - - but do the people in charge of assembling the roster actually know what it needed here and where to look to find pieces to the puzzle to make it better? Recent evidence does not suggest that they do...

Yeah. There's a bunch of defenses that are CLEARLY cut and dry better than us.

Dallas
Philadelphia
New York Giants
Tennessee
Pittsburgh
Baltimore
Tampa Bay
Minnesota

And after that, you can entertain an argument for the Skins defense, and a bunch of other defenses. But we're closer to the bottom ten-twelve then we are to any of those defenses right now. Because those defenses are single-handedly winning football games, and ours is really hurting in the clutch.

[30gut]

Originally Posted by Hail to the Redskins

Best excuse for Zorn this far... too much going on (installing passing offense, QB development, play calling, etc. on TOP of HC duties...) ... but ... what does he do as HC? Blache completely runs the D, he has Sherman Smith and Meidt there with him to install offense and has a BUNCH of experienced players on offense who will tell you that that a new offense to them is not THAT huge a deal (aka Atlanta, Baltimore, & Miami outscoring us by far)

Maybe you are right, though, seriously... good post... that what I started this post for... logical, factual responses... not people going on the attack with no real logical, factual argument why

Dude, Sherman Smith came from the Titans where he ran the running game, he is new to the WCO and is a 1st time OC and likely took the job as OC to help out Zorn who was more or less in a lurch without a WCO OC.

Chris Meidt is a 1st year NFL assistant form Div III St.Olaf

you are comparing them to Cam Cameron and Mike Mularkey?
-C'mon bro

I didn't intend my posts as attack, i'm merely just reponding to your post.

Remember you are the one that said:

Basically, this information tells you that you'd be crazy to say that the blame for this season is not Zorn or Campbell (or both).

^^That my friend is an attack, saying that anyone that disagrees with your spurious logic is crazy.

[EternalEnigma21]

Zorn has failed. No question. Will he continue to? Who knows. Campbell played well yesterday. He's one of about 4 redskins who haven't quit. I have a lot of respect for him and he did a good job.

Zorn has lost the team.

[irish]

Good post. All those coaches have QBs that can get it done. Zorn doesnt which means he has to adjust his plan to fit what JC can, and more importantly, cant do. Campbell doesnt have it and when Zorn gets a capable QB in there (and a better o line) I think things will improve.