Debunking top 3 myths about the '09 Redskins

[53Fan]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

Okay, I really hate to piss in everybody's cornflakes this morning, but if our passing game ranks 23rd in the league (not to mention near the very bottom in scoring) despite the fact that our starters are catching more passes, how effective are our starters really?

I know it's been eight long months since the end of the '08 season, and perhaps I'm suffering from amnesia, but I seem to remember that our main problem was scoring, particularly through the air.

I'm sure someone will tell me how I'm wrong ...

You're not wrong. We need to increase our scoring in general and our scoring in the redzone in particular. With the top 6 returning pass catchers in the NFC East and the second year in this offense, it gives us hope we can do just that.

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

Okay, I really hate to piss in everybody's cornflakes this morning, but if our passing game ranks 23rd in the league (not to mention near the very bottom in scoring) despite the fact that our starters are catching more passes, how effective are our starters really?

I know it's been eight long months since the end of the '08 season, and perhaps I'm suffering from amnesia, but I seem to remember that our main problem was scoring, particularly through the air.

I'm sure someone will tell me how I'm wrong ...

Our main problem last year was definitely scoring, especially through the air and in the red zone. My point with the returning pass catchers was basically demonstrating continuity. The Cowboys lost their #1 WR. The Giants lost their #1 and #2A WR. The Eagles lost their starting TE (although Celek was as much of a contributor as Smith) and their #3 WR. We're bringing back everyone but our #5 WR in Thrash.

Looking at statistical rankings from last year and projecting that to this year is meaningless because each team (other than the Redskins) in the division has to replace approximately 70 receptions and 900 yards in their passing attack. Every team in the division has question marks at the receiver position and while the Cowboys have R. Williams, the Eagles and Giants are relying upon big contributions from rookie WR and we all know how perilous that can be!

If we get the anticipated improvement of JC along with the development of the 2nd year players then we should have the most dynamic passing game in the division.

[Beemnseven]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

Our main problem last year was definitely scoring, especially through the air and in the red zone. My point with the returning pass catchers was basically demonstrating continuity. The Cowboys lost their #1 WR. The Giants lost their #1 and #2A WR. The Eagles lost their starting TE (although Celek was as much of a contributor as Smith) and their #3 WR. We're bringing back everyone but our #5 WR in Thrash.

Looking at statistical rankings from last year and projecting that to this year is meaningless because each team (other than the Redskins) in the division has to replace approximately 70 receptions and 900 yards in their passing attack. Every team in the division has question marks at the receiver position and while the Cowboys have R. Williams, the Eagles and Giants are relying upon big contributions from rookie WR and we all know how perilous that can be!

If we get the anticipated improvement of JC along with the development of the 2nd year players then we should have the most dynamic passing game in the division.

Alright, fair enough. I'm especially skeptical about the Cowboys; Roy Williams still has much to prove. And while the Giants lost Burress and Toomer, they've done a good job at drafting replacements, plus they have a dynamic running game with a great O-line. We'll see what happens with them... As for Philly, they seem to do fine and they NEVER seem to have good receivers.

In a way, I hope we don't have continuity in that we don't want to see the same lack of production with our passing offense. Hopefully, Campbell is the missing cog in the wheel, and things will turn around.

We'll get a taste of where things are in just 20 days with the first preseason game.

[44Deezel]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

Our main problem last year was definitely scoring, especially through the air and in the red zone. My point with the returning pass catchers was basically demonstrating continuity. The Cowboys lost their #1 WR. The Giants lost their #1 and #2A WR. The Eagles lost their starting TE (although Celek was as much of a contributor as Smith) and their #3 WR. We're bringing back everyone but our #5 WR in Thrash.

Looking at statistical rankings from last year and projecting that to this year is meaningless because each team (other than the Redskins) in the division has to replace approximately 70 receptions and 900 yards in their passing attack. Every team in the division has question marks at the receiver position and while the Cowboys have R. Williams, the Eagles and Giants are relying upon big contributions from rookie WR and we all know how perilous that can be!

If we get the anticipated improvement of JC along with the development of the 2nd year players then we should have the most dynamic passing game in the division.

We make a big deal out of continuity, because we don't have it, but other teams add and lose players on offense each and every year and keep humming along. TO dropped more passes than anyone and was more of a disruption to the offense than anything else. Dallas will still have a potent passing attack, the Eagles move the ball up and down the field regardless of whose on the field (Westbrook misses a ton of time each year and they still manage to score points) and the Giants will still run the ball down everyone's throats and Eli will be just good enough to keep defenses honest. The Skins just need to be better, and I think they will. I just don't think the other teams will be dramatically worse.

[Monkeydad]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

Maybe I'm not following here, but are you talking about starting pass catchers only?

Here's the way the stats line up in the NFC East according to NFL.com:

philly = 6th in the league in passing, 362 completions
dallas = 9th, 328 completions
nyg = 18th, 298 completions
was = 23rd, 318 completions

I guess there are statistical myths, as you've pointed out, but then there's actual results, and our passing game has been downright impotent for years.

If a player comes off the bench and catches a TD, it still counts for 6 points.

[Hog1]

Nice kick in the ass Pain!

[rbanerjee23]

good thread except the receiving one seems a little off base, yes the returning ones are the most productive but keep in mind that desean jackson is now in his second year and dmac now has macklin. Just because plaxico isn't returning doesn't mean those yards will disappear from the giants passing game. Finally, as much as i hate to admit it, romo is a good/very good regular season passer and the loss of to will not lead to a large dropoff in total passing yardage as roy williams will be in his second year in the system.
Now, admittedly, it is time for thomas, kelly, and davis to step up and contribute solidly to the passing game for us as well so as a whole the division looks to be pretty solid. But using returning stats is not very smart because by that logic, the pats are returning 0 yards...does that mean they suck?? The other two are huge points though so props for bringing that up

[roth74va]

Originally Posted by rbanerjee23

good thread except the receiving one seems a little off base, yes the returning ones are the most productive but keep in mind that desean jackson is now in his second year and dmac now has macklin. Just because plaxico isn't returning doesn't mean those yards will disappear from the giants passing game. Finally, as much as i hate to admit it, romo is a good/very good regular season passer and the loss of to will not lead to a large dropoff in total passing yardage as roy williams will be in his second year in the system.

Gotta disagree....Desean Jackson will be better, but Macklin is a rookie and wont make a huge impact like some are thinking he will. The Giants losing Plax is HUGE, he is obviously an idiot for shooting himself, but teamed with Eli they really had something good going. There isnt a "proven" receiver on the Giants roster, just alot of promising youngsters. The loss of TO is gonna be an issue for Romo, and will lead to alot more attention for Witten. Roy Williams is a good receiver, but doesnt bring the same scare factor as TO. I think this leads to a drop off for Mr. Homo.

[rbanerjee23]

Originally Posted by roth74va

Gotta disagree....Desean Jackson will be better, but Macklin is a rookie and wont make a huge impact like some are thinking he will. The Giants losing Plax is HUGE, he is obviously an idiot for shooting himself, but teamed with Eli they really had something good going. There isnt a "proven" receiver on the Giants roster, just alot of promising youngsters. The loss of TO is gonna be an issue for Romo, and will lead to alot more attention for Witten. Roy Williams is a good receiver, but doesnt bring the same scare factor as TO. I think this leads to a drop off for Mr. Homo.

yeah, you're also forgetting that OL wise, the eagles, giants and cowboys are way, way better off and dmac is just more established. Jackson wasn't meant to have a huge impact as that wr corps was nothing to speak off and he had a decent year. With two targets, mcnabb will light it up. And, say what you want but the giants have a nice young wr corps in hixon, moss, boss etc. While they won't get the production of burruss, they won't need to with the running game they have led by the tremendous o-line up in ny. Finally, dallas may have lost t.o. and that will affect the passing yardage of course, but their o-line is also solid and they have a scary threesome of backs in barber, jones, and choice. Passing wise, philly will be better, ny and dallas will drop but not significantly, but the rest of the offense is more than good enough to make up for it.

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by rbanerjee23

yeah, you're also forgetting that OL wise, the eagles, giants and cowboys are way, way better off and dmac is just more established. Jackson wasn't meant to have a huge impact as that wr corps was nothing to speak off and he had a decent year. With two targets, mcnabb will light it up. And, say what you want but the giants have a nice young wr corps in hixon, moss, boss etc. While they won't get the production of burruss, they won't need to with the running game they have led by the tremendous o-line up in ny. Finally, dallas may have lost t.o. and that will affect the passing yardage of course, but their o-line is also solid and they have a scary threesome of backs in barber, jones, and choice. Passing wise, philly will be better, ny and dallas will drop but not significantly, but the rest of the offense is more than good enough to make up for it.

If I was a Giants fan, I'd be pretty concerned about the passing game. Not only did they lose Plaxico but they also lost Burress (48 rec, 580 yds, 4 TD) and Derrick Ward (41 rec, 384 yds), not to mention Ward's running yards (1,025). Moss has shown nothing but being injury prone for his 3 years and Manningham did zero last year.

I think for Dallas to be successful on offense this year, they need to run the ball 65% of the time or more. Romo is a good QB but Williams is no T.O. and the rest of their group is pretty weak.

[Lotus]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

If I was a Giants fan, I'd be pretty concerned about the passing game. Not only did they lose Plaxico but they also lost Burress (48 rec, 580 yds, 4 TD) and Derrick Ward (41 rec, 384 yds), not to mention Ward's running yards (1,025). Moss has shown nothing but being injury prone for his 3 years and Manningham did zero last year.

I think for Dallas to be successful on offense this year, they need to run the ball 65% of the time or more. Romo is a good QB but Williams is no T.O. and the rest of their group is pretty weak.

If I were a Giants fan I'd be concerned somewhat about the running game as well. Plax kept folks from putting 8 in the box to stop the run; right now, the Giants lack a comparable threat. I think the Giants will have more trouble running this year because they will face more 8-man fronts.

Added to this, it is not clear that Ware or another back will capably replace Ward in the running game.

I think the Giants will score fewer ppg this year.

[BleedBurgundy]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

If I was a Giants fan, I'd be pretty concerned about the passing game. Not only did they lose Plaxico but they also lost Burress (48 rec, 580 yds, 4 TD) and Derrick Ward (41 rec, 384 yds), not to mention Ward's running yards (1,025). Moss has shown nothing but being injury prone for his 3 years and Manningham did zero last year.

I think for Dallas to be successful on offense this year, they need to run the ball 65% of the time or more. Romo is a good QB but Williams is no T.O. and the rest of their group is pretty weak.

Whaaaa? Plaxico Burress is really two people? So maybe he really did shoot himself... ;-)

[Ruhskins]

Originally Posted by rbanerjee23

good thread except the receiving one seems a little off base, yes the returning ones are the most productive but keep in mind that desean jackson is now in his second year and dmac now has macklin. Just because plaxico isn't returning doesn't mean those yards will disappear from the giants passing game. Finally, as much as i hate to admit it, romo is a good/very good regular season passer and the loss of to will not lead to a large dropoff in total passing yardage as roy williams will be in his second year in the system.
Now, admittedly, it is time for thomas, kelly, and davis to step up and contribute solidly to the passing game for us as well so as a whole the division looks to be pretty solid. But using returning stats is not very smart because by that logic, the pats are returning 0 yards...does that mean they suck?? The other two are huge points though so props for bringing that up

Well this is surely not going to help Maclin help out that Eagle passing game.

Philadelphia Eagles' camp begins without top-pick Jeremy Maclin - ESPN

I hope we don't see this situation and sign Orakpo before camp starts.

[GTripp0012]

Great work, PT

[NYCskinfan82]

Good post PT, i'm very excited about this season and love to hear negative things about our Division rivals and positive things about the REDSKINS. I want our rivals to be at full strength when we play them i want know excusess when we beat the S%*T out of them.