Two big problems on offense: 3rd downs & red zone

[over the mountain]

with the redzone i know kyle (or mike or both) have said that running the ball in the redzone is a major priority for their offense to balance the attack and d schemes in that part of the field.

i, like other posters on here have also stated, that it was frustrating to see us try and run the ball twice in a row in the redzone last week for 1-2 yards an attempt.

with that said, play actions and naked bootlegs have been very effective in the redzone so maybe, even though running the ball in the redzone by itself isnt all that effective, by committing to the run in the redzone, defenses must honor the run and it is setting us up for successful play actions, etc.

i remember the first couple of series against the boys we were converting on 3rd and longs every time.

[SmootSmack]

Crazy to think we're tied for last in the league in 3rd down conversions with the 3-0 Pittsburgh Steelers.

Sometimes to really understand why a team is struggling in 3rd down conversions is to look at their 2nd down attempts. I haven't done this, but I would be interested to know how many 3rd and longs they've had to face. (which I believe Matty also alluded to)

Our Red Zone offense is consistently abysmal

[FRPLG]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Our Red Zone offense is consistently abysmal

Personnel.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Crazy to think we're tied for last in the league in 3rd down conversions with the 3-0 Pittsburgh Steelers.

Sometimes to really understand why a team is struggling in 3rd down conversions is to look at their 2nd down attempts. I haven't done this, but I would be interested to know how many 3rd and longs they've had to face. (which I believe Matty also alluded to)

Our Red Zone offense is consistently abysmal

It doesn't matter cause they have a great defense. Plus they're playing their 4th string QB? 3-0 w/ out Ben is pretty impressive. Troy P. is the MVP of that team. Not Ben.

[MTK]

Skins are 6/33 on 3rd downs. 6 conversions in 3 games?? That's insanely bad.

What's interesting is they kick ass on 1st downs and average something close to 8 yards an per play. So something appears to be going horribly wrong on 2nd downs.

[FRPLG]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

Skins are 6/33 on 3rd downs. 6 conversions in 3 games?? That's insanely bad.

What's interesting is they kick ass on 1st downs and average something close to 8 yards an per play. So something appears to be going horribly wrong on 2nd downs.

I can remember off hand at least 3 times we've penaltied our way out of 3rd and shorts. So it is probably more like 5 or 6 times we've done. Remember too in the Dallas game we made some 3rd and longs early on. In fact we only seemed to be able to make 3rd and longs.

With a mobile QB we should be much more efficient on 3rd. It's like we rely on McNabb on 1st and 2nd then on 3rd we panic and make terribly awful play calls.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

Skins are 6/33 on 3rd downs. 6 conversions in 3 games?? That's insanely bad.

What's interesting is they kick ass on 1st downs and average something close to 8 yards an per play. So something appears to be going horribly wrong on 2nd downs.

I'm just looking back at my notes from the first three games, and it certainly appears that the tendency after an unsuccessful first down play (and we've had our share of successful ones for sure) is to reverse trend. If it's an incomplete pass, we like to run or screen in second down. If we ran for little gain, we like to take a shot, either at the sticks or down the field.

It's a strong trend.

The result appears to be a severe reliance on getting a big play when we try it. If not, a third down is nearly inevitable. And obviously, that third down figure is going to regress towards the mean a little bit, but it's going to be low as long as we are in third and longs.

And Portis is right that when we do get in third and short, we have the fun ability to get a procedure penalty and back it up to third and long.

[GMScud]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

Skins are 6/33 on 3rd downs. 6 conversions in 3 games?? That's insanely bad.

What's interesting is they kick ass on 1st downs and average something close to 8 yards an per play. So something appears to be going horribly wrong on 2nd downs.

You alluded to it earlier- running game epic fail.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by GMScud

You alluded to it earlier- running game epic fail.

Hey Scud did you get my PM?

[SouperMeister]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

Skins are 6/33 on 3rd downs. 6 conversions in 3 games?? That's insanely bad.

What's interesting is they kick ass on 1st downs and average something close to 8 yards an per play. So something appears to be going horribly wrong on 2nd downs.

Throw away the two 60+ yard passes on first downs against the Texans, and I would argue that something is seriously wrong on 1st down too. Because of meager 1st and 2nd down production running the ball, we're putting too much pressure on the passing game to convert 3rd and long. I bet that our yards to go on third down is among the highest in the league.

[FRPLG]

And this is putting our D on the field too much.

[MTK]

Yeah those 3rd down penalties have killed us a few times.

[skinsfaninok]

VINCENT JACKSON would have fixed that

[skins89moss]

Originally Posted by skinsfaninok

VINCENT JACKSON would have fixed that

No he would have fixed us again giving away draft picks for other teams problem child.

[takethecake]

I think that the root of the problem is the offensive line. The right side of the line has struggled to open up holes in the running game, and therefore, our running game has suffered. Clinton portis and torain should be sufficient RBs behind a good offensive line, but trent williams and lichtensteiger have been our only really good run blockers so far this year. Our lack of running game makes us predictable, especially in the red zone, and thus we become easy to defend against.

I like seeing sellers involved; he's a freak athlete and is very versatile, although I cringe when he gets the ball because I'm afraid he'll fumble it lol. His run blocking has been very hit or miss this season - does anyone know what the implications of a zone blocking scheme are for a fullback? And I hope portis can teach torain and keiland or whatever rookie RB we end up with how to pass protect..