Rock out with your Lockout

[skinsguy]

Originally Posted by FRPLG

Halle-freaking-lujah

I tire of this argument too. The commerce of our country and (increasingly in the rest of the world) is governed by freedom. In a free market, products and services of value are paid at the level at which they are available (scarcity). Professional athletes are amongst the most scarce commodities anywhere. You don't have to like it but it is the system by which you yourself gain a great amount of benefit.

The common misconception is that people get paid to do their job based on how "important" society deems it. That couldn't really be any further from the truth. It's a function of value and scarcity. And where there is little scarcity (teachers) there is little pay no matter how much society values the work they do.

I appreciate what teachers do (as an example) and I have many friends/acquaintances who do it. A few complain about pay some. I always ask why so many people teach if the pay isn't good enough. They never have a real answer.

Interesting concept. I'm not sure I completely buy it though. I believe one reason cops and teachers are paid the way they are is because they are state employees. While state employees tend to have pretty good benefits, their salaries aren't always high, but I don't know if that is an argument of scarcity or just the fact that the government is only going to supply X amount of money to pay these state employees, since the government has X amount in their budget to pay for each and every program.

A truer comparison would be if all education and law enforcement was privately funded. Not saying cops and teachers would be making millions a year, but I could potentially see them making more.

[mooby]

I'm with CRedskinsRule. I don't side with one side or the other, I just want to see football in the fall. Both sides are greedy, and they both need to get over it.

[SmootSmack]

Selfishly, as a fan I want both sides to just forget about themselves and think of the fans and avoid a lockout.

But, when I step back...I support the players

[BuckSkin]

Millionaires versus Billionaires, it's tough for me to feel empathy for anyone in this argument. Meanwhile the guy down the street has a moving van backed to his front door, with a couple of deputies watching, in Anytown America.

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by RobH4413

The owners are the ones who have opted out of the current CBA agreement. They voted to opt out 2 years early.

I'm siding with the players because I feel that the owners have dug themselves into their own hole. The owners want to keep the same percentage of sharing, but decrease what qualifies as sharable revenue with the players. The players take the biggest health risk by playing the game, and should be compensated fairly... It's up to everyone to figure out what, "fairly" is.

Give me a break please. Are there issues to work out yes, but all players and owners are more than "fairly" compensated for a game they all love. In 1987 players had a reasonable claim in that owners controlled the whole playing field. Now not so much. Players also are doing better at marketing themselves outside of the sport (ie manning). This is about two super rich groups risking alienating the very fanbase which has bought into the hype and enjoyment of a sports entertainment package. If the billionare owners and millionaire players can't understand that a large percentage of the fanbase may work 10 to 20 years to earn what they earn in a few seasons (for the lowest paid player) than they are all being selfish with a sport that I and my family enjoy the heck out of.

No my support is not a question of fairness to the players, or the pity on owners who just want a reasonable return. My support is for the thousands of fans across the nation on boards like this one day in and day out rooting and cheering and aching when their team wins and loses.

Hopefully the greedy owners and selfish players hear that message through their various sycophants and media outlets!

As someone else mentioned police put their lives on the line daily, I don't see millionaire police officers (well not ones who aren't corrupt). Teachers in truly downtrodden school systems risk life and limb in trying to elevate their students out of despair - tell them about a guy with a 40 million dollar contract who isn't being fairly treated. Tell the miners who go down into the depths of the earth that the poor football players are not given more than 5 years of guaranteed health benefits, I doubt you will though cuz they would look at you like you are crazy.

The owners are no better. Tell other ceo's that their return rate in this economy is "only" 8% (or whatever). Or take their woe is me story to baseball which would love to have the same type player salaries and non-guaranteed contracts.

Both sides are at fault for not acknowledging that this system that upshaw and the old commissioner worked out really is a boon for the sport and all involved ought to do everything in their power to ensure it stays upright.

[RobH4413]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

Give me a break please. Are there issues to work out yes, but all players and owners are more than "fairly" compensated for a game they all love. In 1987 players had a reasonable claim in that owners controlled the whole playing field. Now not so much. Players also are doing better at marketing themselves outside of the sport (ie manning). This is about two super rich groups risking alienating the very fanbase which has bought into the hype and enjoyment of a sports entertainment package. If the billionare owners and millionaire players can't understand that a large percentage of the fanbase may work 10 to 20 years to earn what they earn in a few seasons (for the lowest paid player) than they are all being selfish with a sport that I and my family enjoy the heck out of.

No my support is not a question of fairness to the players, or the pity on owners who just want a reasonable return. My support is for the thousands of fans across the nation on boards like this one day in and day out rooting and cheering and aching when their team wins and loses.

Hopefully the greedy owners and selfish players hear that message through their various sycophants and media outlets!

As someone else mentioned police put their lives on the line daily, I don't see millionaire police officers (well not ones who aren't corrupt). Teachers in truly downtrodden school systems risk life and limb in trying to elevate their students out of despair - tell them about a guy with a 40 million dollar contract who isn't being fairly treated. Tell the miners who go down into the depths of the earth that the poor football players are not given more than 5 years of guaranteed health benefits, I doubt you will though cuz they would look at you like you are crazy.

The owners are no better. Tell other ceo's that their return rate in this economy is "only" 8% (or whatever). Or take their woe is me story to baseball which would love to have the same type player salaries and non-guaranteed contracts.

Both sides are at fault for not acknowledging that this system that upshaw and the old commissioner worked out really is a boon for the sport and all involved ought to do everything in their power to ensure it stays upright.

Well when it comes to being fairly compensated... one of the hot issues at hand is the availability of information. The owners have repeatedly claimed that the times are tough, and new economical problems have risen, so more revenue is needed to offset these extra costs.

The NFLPA has acknowledged this complaint, but wants some proof of the impact on the owners themselves. In short, the NFLPA wants the owners to show them the books and go from there. The owners will not even discuss this as a possibility. The offer is completely off the table.

Secondly, being fairly compensated also involves increased health benefits for the players. With the inevitability of an 18 games season, some real sticking points involve the players increased wages and health benefits for these two extra games. More games = more wear and tear on the body = more money to pay for the ailments. Rookie salaries are also up for debate as well.

Before you cry about how you don't want to hear their complaints because they're millionaires, consider the amount of work that an NFL player must go through in order to reach that status. It's an incredibly demanding job, and many players earn every penny through hard work, dedication, and a lot of luck.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

Give me a break please. Are there issues to work out yes, but all players and owners are more than "fairly" compensated for a game they all love. In 1987 players had a reasonable claim in that owners controlled the whole playing field. Now not so much. Players also are doing better at marketing themselves outside of the sport (ie manning). This is about two super rich groups risking alienating the very fanbase which has bought into the hype and enjoyment of a sports entertainment package. If the billionare owners and millionaire players can't understand that a large percentage of the fanbase may work 10 to 20 years to earn what they earn in a few seasons (for the lowest paid player) than they are all being selfish with a sport that I and my family enjoy the heck out of.

No my support is not a question of fairness to the players, or the pity on owners who just want a reasonable return. My support is for the thousands of fans across the nation on boards like this one day in and day out rooting and cheering and aching when their team wins and loses.

Hopefully the greedy owners and selfish players hear that message through their various sycophants and media outlets!

As someone else mentioned police put their lives on the line daily, I don't see millionaire police officers (well not ones who aren't corrupt). Teachers in truly downtrodden school systems risk life and limb in trying to elevate their students out of despair - tell them about a guy with a 40 million dollar contract who isn't being fairly treated. Tell the miners who go down into the depths of the earth that the poor football players are not given more than 5 years of guaranteed health benefits, I doubt you will though cuz they would look at you like you are crazy.

The owners are no better. Tell other ceo's that their return rate in this economy is "only" 8% (or whatever). Or take their woe is me story to baseball which would love to have the same type player salaries and non-guaranteed contracts.

Both sides are at fault for not acknowledging that this system that upshaw and the old commissioner worked out really is a boon for the sport and all involved ought to do everything in their power to ensure it stays upright.

this argument really doesn't hold up. just like an actor, surgeon, golfer or football player, it takes a special skill to do what these guys do. and becuase of that skill people are highly compensated for it. it doesn't take a special skill to be a police officer or teacher. i commend teachers cause my mom was one but gotta keep it real.

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

this argument really doesn't hold up. just like an actor, surgeon, golfer or football player, it takes a special skill to do what these guys do. and becuase of that skill people are highly compensated for it. it doesn't take a special skill to be a police officer or teacher. i commend teachers cause my mom was one but gotta keep it real.

It depends on what argument is being made. I am not arguing against players making the dollars they make. Nor am I arguing that the players aren't the best of the best. I understand that they have trained and honed their bodies and skills to levels that are equivalent to a highly skilled surgeon. My argument when invoking police officers, teachers, coal miners, etc is that their chosen profession involves risks. The players risk their health every time they step on the field, they are modern day gladiators, and they are given high salaries, and more long-term health care than others in our society who put themselves in equally hazardous conditions.

If the next CBA includes extended healthcare privileges, and I hope it does, than excellent. But the head of the NFLPA has repeatedly made it sound like the players are not being fairly treated in health coverage and that's not right (in my opinion) based on the normal contractual agreements in other high risk professions.

Once again, both sides have a huge pie to slice up, and if the players want longer health insurance than ok, but let's look at what other slices need to shrink to make that happen, maybe rookie wage cap, maybe less of the overall pie goes to player salaries. Maybe it comes from a combined source. I don't know the answers, but I know that there is enough of a pot that working together the NFLPA and owners ought to be able to come up with a reasonable solution.

[SirClintonPortis]

The only players I feel a little pity for are the the grunts who work for the minimum or just a bit more than that. At least they have a case for being compensated for in case of serious injury or being cut.

[hooskins]

CRedskins, I understand your point completely. But look at this statement you made:

The owners are no better. Tell other ceo's that their return rate in this economy is "only" 8% (or whatever). Or take their woe is me story to baseball which would love to have the same type player salaries and non-guaranteed contracts.

As much as the owners gripe about the players, the truth is the pie has grown larger and the game has gotten much more violent. For every Manning there are hundreds of Ethan Albrights. Those players who will continue to make relative chump change if we go in the direction the owners would like.

Yes there are billionaires and millionaires in the NFL. But the rising tide has not lifted all boats equally.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by hooskins

CRedskins, I understand your point completely. But look at this statement you made:

The owners are no better. Tell other ceo's that their return rate in this economy is "only" 8% (or whatever). Or take their woe is me story to baseball which would love to have the same type player salaries and non-guaranteed contracts.

As much as the owners gripe about the players, the truth is the pie has grown larger and the game has gotten much more violent. For every Manning there are hundreds of Ethan Albrights. Those players who will continue to make relative chump change if we go in the direction the owners would like.

Yes there are billionaires and millionaires in the NFL. But the rising tide has not lifted all boats equally.

Thats becaus they are not equal. Thats how life works.

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by RobH4413

. ... Before you cry about how you don't want to hear their complaints because they're millionaires, consider the amount of work that an NFL player must go through in order to reach that status. It's an incredibly demanding job, and many players earn every penny through hard work, dedication, and a lot of luck.

I want to be clear, I don't begrudge the players the money they make. Nor do the owners profit bother me. But sit down(both sides) and work out a reasonable solution recognizing that as a whole they are extremely fortunate people- all of whom have worked hard and are the best of the best in their profession. Don't ask me to cry or side with one over the other, simply sit down and do the hard work at the bargaining table, both sides give a little, and don't hold an outstanding fan base to your side's (either as an owner or player) most strict line.

I have a 13 year old son, NFL football is his passion, but he will "suffer" because grown men can't find common ground. That's a shame.

[hooskins]

Sure it's a shame, but watching football is luxury to most of us. Most of us don't need the game to make a dollar. For players and owners football is a means of sustenance. For many players it's their only vehicle of employment and betterment.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by hooskins

Sure it's a shame, but watching football is luxury to most of us. Most of us don't need the game to make a dollar. For players and owners football is a means of sustenance. For many players it's their only vehicle of employment and betterment.

There are many people involved in football games outside of the players who depend on the games to pay their bills

[SFREDSKIN]

I say screw both sides and start a league were they play for the passion of the game like the old days.