Post Game Thoughts

skins009 · 12-13-2004, 01:55 AM

Our playbook sucks. Why don't we throw the ball downfield. This is football. THats why Ramsey threw the pick, he had to throw these little dinks and danks all game. Gibbs clearly is to old to manage the game and call plays. He needs to hire an offensive coordinator and have him do that. Best case senario, and you heard it here first. Is mike Tice gets fired, and we hire him.

jthor99 · 12-13-2004, 02:04 AM

this is a tough loss to swallow but i thought we played well overall. A few things i was dissapointed with was the clock management i thought it was very poor which it has been all season (how you get a delay of game penalty after a timeout just amazes me). Yes, the playcalling was skeptical but i will go out on a limb and defend gibbs call at the end going to the endzone i thought it wasnt a bad play call necisarily since we hadnt took a shot all game, but ramsey decison was just very poor BOTTOM LINE he forced something he shouldnt of. Another thing that no one else has mentioned that frusterated me was at the end when the eagles punted i belive we should of allowed the thrash to c what he could of done instead of rushing the punt i know that we are 1st in the league on blocking punts but we really need field poistion but the punt was a hell of a punt anyway i still feel that we should of let thrash of a shot thats just me thou. Defense what i can say they played a hell of a game again. One thing that did concern me is that i felt that are safeties did get burned a few times early fortunatley for us mcnabb couldnt hook up wiht the reciever. NOt like it would of mattered anyway but the O line should be ashamed of themselves the way they played during the last possesion its like they jut gave up and let Kearse through but otherwise they protected pretty well. But im not giving up this game gave me alot of hope for being a skins fan i think there will be changes made in the playbook next season but ramsey i really think is the real deal hes starting to form into something sometimes u have to make the big mistakes to learn from them. Lets win out and build for next year as hard as it is for me to say that.

Daseal · 12-13-2004, 02:14 AM

Honestly, I think we had another week of mediocre play calling, poor game management, decent officiating (only really one bad call, and for us, that's amazing!), and good execution. I feel the little dinky passes have their places, but you gotta take your shots.

The playcall to the endzone I don't disagree with. I was hoping for a more midrange throw to play it somewhat safe, but I also understand the call. It was a mistake by Ramsey, but he hit Cooley how many times that drive?

Guys - we played a tight game against a great team. Nothing to be ashamed of. I think with a little improvement in coaching and some rhythm and continuity with the players and next year we can make a strong run!

Gmanc711 · 12-13-2004, 02:14 AM

I agree with someone else (who I'm too lazy to go back and remember who it was lol). Its about how this team responds. We very easily could go 3-0 to end the year and get things rolling into next year. We are playing 3 extremley winnnable games. We could feild a team of 5th strinngers and I would still expect to win on Saturday.

itvnetop · 12-13-2004, 02:17 AM

heh... wasn't able to keep up on the game thread cuz i watched it on my friend's big screen- but i really kept wondering why we abandoned the run in the first half after several good runs. Our O-line was dominating theirs (especially in the first quarter); and with their D-linemen getting injured, Portis was getting large chunks. It was like they'd run the ball with some success, get a first down, and then pass for three straight plays before a punt.

really impressed with the C&C connection tonight (Cooley/Coles), but John Hall's FGA was horrible! Defense, once again, shining in the absence of superstars... the line had good penetration during the second half. Keeping Westbrook in check was more important, imo, than anyone else on their O and they did just that (aside from a few big runs). Taylor is slowly catching on... glad to hear Springs is okay.

My biggest worry is solving this penalty problem... after years of digression, how do you solve this?

bedlamVR · 12-13-2004, 02:39 AM

I for one am getting sick of everyone mondy morning play calling on Gibbs. One minute people are saying he should call runs and in a ney york minute they are saying we should play the vertical game. Did any of you see the Colts game last yesterday where Manning had consecutive delay of games penalties and consistantly ran the play clock down same with Pennington and the Jets. It is not just a redskin thing. Everyone said how good the playcalling was in the Giants game yet we didn't do much different ran the class of the NFC to within 3 points withtthe excetpion of the Steelers closser than anyone else this year yet Gibbs sucks we need to get rid of Gibbs etc etc. Has any of you had the sucess Gibbs has had in his career? anyone here think they could do better than Gibbs? Then send your applications Dan Snyder care of Redskins Park hey you might get lucky.

Sure the loss is dissapointing but the last minute interception is a QB decision making error the kinds of things Ramsey has to get over but I can think of probably 30 or so OC might have gone for a pop in the end zone on 1-10 with less than 2 minutes left had the pass been made or gone incomplete we would not even be discussing this right now. Had we run it a few times and Portis fumbled or gone for a field goal and missed or even put the game into OT then lost then people on here would be yelling why didn't we go for a pop in the EZ.

The same things being said about Gibbs now were being said about Martz in his first year back. We have shown improved performance game after game sure it hurts to loose but y'know when you change all of your coaches in the off season it is to be exected you go through some growing pains...

SmootSmack · 12-13-2004, 02:39 AM

TO did nothing of importance, other than fumbling in the red zone

Lemar was right, the Eagles couldn't run on the Redskins

SmootSmack · 12-13-2004, 02:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bedlamVR

I for one am getting sick of everyone mondy morning play calling on Gibbs. One minute people are saying he should call runs and in a ney york minute they are saying we should play the vertical game. Did any of you see the Colts game last yesterday where Manning had consecutive delay of games penalties and consistantly ran the play clock down same with Pennington and the Jets. It is not just a redskin thing. Everyone said how good the playcalling was in the Giants game yet we didn't do much different ran the class of the NFC to within 3 points withtthe excetpion of the Steelers closser than anyone else this year yet Gibbs sucks we need to get rid of Gibbs etc etc. Has any of you had the sucess Gibbs has had in his career? anyone here think they could do better than Gibbs? Then send your applications Dan Snyder care of Redskins Park hey you might get lucky.

Sure the loss is dissapointing but the last minute interception is a QB decision making error the kinds of things Ramsey has to get over but I can think of probably 30 or so OC might have gone for a pop in the end zone on 1-10 with less than 2 minutes left had the pass been made or gone incomplete we would not even be discussing this right now. Had we run it a few times and Portis fumbled or gone for a field goal and missed or even put the game into OT then lost then people on here would be yelling why didn't we go for a pop in the EZ.

The same things being said about Gibbs now were being said about Martz in his first year back. We have shown improved performance game after game sure it hurts to loose but y'know when you change all of your coaches in the off season it is to be exected you go through some growing pains...

I think you mean Vermeil, not Martz. But I hear what you're saying. This game plan was very similar to last week and last week showed that it can work

LRT · 12-13-2004, 02:53 AM

Unfortunately, being in Eastern Europe I only woke up early enough to catch the last 7 minutes. But having read about the game and seen those last critical minutes, I have a few thoughts to share.

First, I have this Redskins tie that I wear to work when the team wins. Well, today I'm wearing it anyway because I'm darn proud of our guys.

Second, as someone said earlier, this Skins team is the same team that earlier in the year couldn't beat the Browns and that kicked in the second half by the Eagles. And this is the same Eagles that mopped the floor with the Packers. I'd say 17-14 is very respectable performance and a performance that shows real improvement.

Third, we've got some real Redskins on this team. I wasn't certain earlier in the year, but now I am. And that gives me a lot of confidence for next year.

Fourth, Ramsey. The kid is a rookie in my mind. And like all rookies with big arms, he wants to gun it down field rather than read D's. Unfortunately, his first coach in the NFL encouraged that and engrained that trend. I give Patrick a lot of credit for making as much progress as he has in adapting to Gibbs' system. But, we're still going to see him make rookie mistakes, at least through the rest of this year. And, that INT was just that - a rookie mistake.

Finally, I continue to hope that with this game, despite it being a loss, people - especially people in the Skins front office - will see enough progress to accept that we have the basic core we need and that the last thing we need is another off-season of wholesale changes.

Cheers from Riga.

JWsleep · 12-13-2004, 02:57 AM

Bedlam and LRT, I agree with both of you guys. We're close, but we lost a tough one. The Eagles are good. We're getting better, but we're not there yet. No need to burn down the house and fire the lot and undermine Gibbs and all that. That's the sort of quick-fix panic that got us into trouble in the first place.

Let's win next week, and especially the week after that. That's the only way to fix things, IMHO.

LRT · 12-13-2004, 03:02 AM

JW, I agree. We're going in the right direction and a couple of wins (maybe even three?) would be a nice way to end the season and would give us some momentum for next year.

LRT · 12-13-2004, 03:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smootsmack

TO did nothing of importance, other than fumbling in the red zone

Lemar was right, the Eagles couldn't run on the Redskins

That makes me happy. I really, really despise TO. To my mind he's everything I dislike about the "modern" NFL - as opposed to the NFL of the 80s - wrapped up in one annoying person.

itvnetop · 12-13-2004, 06:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bedlamVR

I for one am getting sick of everyone mondy morning play calling on Gibbs. One minute people are saying he should call runs and in a ney york minute they are saying we should play the vertical game.

So it's monday morning qb to wonder why the run was abandoned after success in the first half? Not sure if I'm one of the people you're targeting (just that it was written directly after mine), but I wasn't even talking about that last drive where rams threw the pick... Me and my friend (who's not even a skins fan, but had a vested interest in the spread) both saw the weakness in Philly's run D in the first quarter. Throughout the game, we were throwing things at the tube when they'd keep calling three straight passes after good runs.

But since you did mention the ramsey pick, I specifically told my friend after the timeout that no matter what, they should just give portis the ball three straight times and hope he breaks one b/c i still don't trust ramsey 100 percent. Does that make me a bad fan? No, it just means I'd rather take my chances with Portis fumbling over Ramsey throwing a game-killing pick. But I also see Ramsey progressing nicely throughout the game. But like you said, it's a learning curve. Nobody is saying they could coach better than Gibbs, but if sportswriters are allowed the ability to criticize, you bet fans are going to question things once in a while.

BrudLee · 12-13-2004, 07:36 AM

Aside from the result, I only have two complaints. THe playcalling was too passive at the wrong times. We punted from the Eagles 35 at one point - we didn't even try to force them offsides. We also punted in Eagles territory down ten on 4th and a foot. Those are bothquestionable calls in my book, regardless of how much faith you have in the defense.

As for the Ramsey pick, I thought it was a great playcall that was poorly executed. From my seats, I was watching that play develop. Cooley was open for a fifteen yard window that ended before the end zone. I love the aggressive playcalling in that situation, but if your opponents are ready for it, break off the route and throw elsewhere. Cooley seemed to realize he was heading into coverage and head toward the middle of the endzone before coming back for the ball, so either Patrick had tunnel vision and wanted that route, or he was trying to throw it away, and came up short. Either way, poor execution in the two minute drill.

By the way, brilliant timeout to force a booth review. Excellent move by Gibbs - it's a shame it didn't pan out.

LongTimeSkinsFan · 12-13-2004, 07:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bedlamVR

I for one am getting sick of everyone mondy morning play calling on Gibbs. One minute people are saying he should call runs and in a ney york minute they are saying we should play the vertical game. Did any of you see the Colts game last yesterday where Manning had consecutive delay of games penalties and consistantly ran the play clock down same with Pennington and the Jets. It is not just a redskin thing. Everyone said how good the playcalling was in the Giants game yet we didn't do much different ran the class of the NFC to within 3 points withtthe excetpion of the Steelers closser than anyone else this year yet Gibbs sucks we need to get rid of Gibbs etc etc. Has any of you had the sucess Gibbs has had in his career? anyone here think they could do better than Gibbs? Then send your applications Dan Snyder care of Redskins Park hey you might get lucky.

Sure the loss is dissapointing but the last minute interception is a QB decision making error the kinds of things Ramsey has to get over but I can think of probably 30 or so OC might have gone for a pop in the end zone on 1-10 with less than 2 minutes left had the pass been made or gone incomplete we would not even be discussing this right now. Had we run it a few times and Portis fumbled or gone for a field goal and missed or even put the game into OT then lost then people on here would be yelling why didn't we go for a pop in the EZ.

The same things being said about Gibbs now were being said about Martz in his first year back. We have shown improved performance game after game sure it hurts to loose but y'know when you change all of your coaches in the off season it is to be exected you go through some growing pains...

Amen! I'm in way total agreement here. And as far as an OC for next year I say DS hires our own Daseal.

12-13-2004, 02:14 AM	#19
Gmanc711 Thank You, Sean. Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Gaithersburg, MD Age: 39 Posts: 7,506	I agree with someone else (who I'm too lazy to go back and remember who it was lol). Its about how this team responds. We very easily could go 3-0 to end the year and get things rolling into next year. We are playing 3 extremley winnnable games. We could feild a team of 5th strinngers and I would still expect to win on Saturday. __________________ #21

12-13-2004, 02:39 AM	#22
SmootSmack Uncle Phil Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 45,256	A couple of positives TO did nothing of importance, other than fumbling in the red zone Lemar was right, the Eagles couldn't run on the Redskins __________________ You're So Vain...You Probably Think This Sig Is About You

12-13-2004, 02:57 AM	#25
JWsleep Propane and propane accessories Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Houston, TX Age: 55 Posts: 4,717	Bedlam and LRT, I agree with both of you guys. We're close, but we lost a tough one. The Eagles are good. We're getting better, but we're not there yet. No need to burn down the house and fire the lot and undermine Gibbs and all that. That's the sort of quick-fix panic that got us into trouble in the first place. Let's win next week, and especially the week after that. That's the only way to fix things, IMHO. __________________ Hail from Houston!

12-13-2004, 07:36 AM	#29
BrudLee Playmaker Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Rehoboth Beach, DE Posts: 3,494	Aside from the result, I only have two complaints. THe playcalling was too passive at the wrong times. We punted from the Eagles 35 at one point - we didn't even try to force them offsides. We also punted in Eagles territory down ten on 4th and a foot. Those are bothquestionable calls in my book, regardless of how much faith you have in the defense. As for the Ramsey pick, I thought it was a great playcall that was poorly executed. From my seats, I was watching that play develop. Cooley was open for a fifteen yard window that ended before the end zone. I love the aggressive playcalling in that situation, but if your opponents are ready for it, break off the route and throw elsewhere. Cooley seemed to realize he was heading into coverage and head toward the middle of the endzone before coming back for the ball, so either Patrick had tunnel vision and wanted that route, or he was trying to throw it away, and came up short. Either way, poor execution in the two minute drill. By the way, brilliant timeout to force a booth review. Excellent move by Gibbs - it's a shame it didn't pan out. __________________ There's nowhere to go but up. Or down. I guess we could stay where we are, too.

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12-13-2004, 01:55 AM	#16
skins009 Impact Rookie Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 528	Our playbook sucks. Why don't we throw the ball downfield. This is football. THats why Ramsey threw the pick, he had to throw these little dinks and danks all game. Gibbs clearly is to old to manage the game and call plays. He needs to hire an offensive coordinator and have him do that. Best case senario, and you heard it here first. Is mike Tice gets fired, and we hire him.

12-13-2004, 02:04 AM	#17
jthor99 Camp Scrub Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 17	this is a tough loss to swallow but i thought we played well overall. A few things i was dissapointed with was the clock management i thought it was very poor which it has been all season (how you get a delay of game penalty after a timeout just amazes me). Yes, the playcalling was skeptical but i will go out on a limb and defend gibbs call at the end going to the endzone i thought it wasnt a bad play call necisarily since we hadnt took a shot all game, but ramsey decison was just very poor BOTTOM LINE he forced something he shouldnt of. Another thing that no one else has mentioned that frusterated me was at the end when the eagles punted i belive we should of allowed the thrash to c what he could of done instead of rushing the punt i know that we are 1st in the league on blocking punts but we really need field poistion but the punt was a hell of a punt anyway i still feel that we should of let thrash of a shot thats just me thou. Defense what i can say they played a hell of a game again. One thing that did concern me is that i felt that are safeties did get burned a few times early fortunatley for us mcnabb couldnt hook up wiht the reciever. NOt like it would of mattered anyway but the O line should be ashamed of themselves the way they played during the last possesion its like they jut gave up and let Kearse through but otherwise they protected pretty well. But im not giving up this game gave me alot of hope for being a skins fan i think there will be changes made in the playbook next season but ramsey i really think is the real deal hes starting to form into something sometimes u have to make the big mistakes to learn from them. Lets win out and build for next year as hard as it is for me to say that.

12-13-2004, 02:14 AM	#18
Daseal Puppy Kicker Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Arlington, Virginia Age: 41 Posts: 8,341	Honestly, I think we had another week of mediocre play calling, poor game management, decent officiating (only really one bad call, and for us, that's amazing!), and good execution. I feel the little dinky passes have their places, but you gotta take your shots. The playcall to the endzone I don't disagree with. I was hoping for a more midrange throw to play it somewhat safe, but I also understand the call. It was a mistake by Ramsey, but he hit Cooley how many times that drive? Guys - we played a tight game against a great team. Nothing to be ashamed of. I think with a little improvement in coaching and some rhythm and continuity with the players and next year we can make a strong run!

12-13-2004, 02:17 AM	#20
itvnetop Playmaker Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Los Angeles, CA Age: 47 Posts: 3,007	heh... wasn't able to keep up on the game thread cuz i watched it on my friend's big screen- but i really kept wondering why we abandoned the run in the first half after several good runs. Our O-line was dominating theirs (especially in the first quarter); and with their D-linemen getting injured, Portis was getting large chunks. It was like they'd run the ball with some success, get a first down, and then pass for three straight plays before a punt. really impressed with the C&C connection tonight (Cooley/Coles), but John Hall's FGA was horrible! Defense, once again, shining in the absence of superstars... the line had good penetration during the second half. Keeping Westbrook in check was more important, imo, than anyone else on their O and they did just that (aside from a few big runs). Taylor is slowly catching on... glad to hear Springs is okay. My biggest worry is solving this penalty problem... after years of digression, how do you solve this?

12-13-2004, 02:39 AM	#21
bedlamVR Special Teams Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 389	I for one am getting sick of everyone mondy morning play calling on Gibbs. One minute people are saying he should call runs and in a ney york minute they are saying we should play the vertical game. Did any of you see the Colts game last yesterday where Manning had consecutive delay of games penalties and consistantly ran the play clock down same with Pennington and the Jets. It is not just a redskin thing. Everyone said how good the playcalling was in the Giants game yet we didn't do much different ran the class of the NFC to within 3 points withtthe excetpion of the Steelers closser than anyone else this year yet Gibbs sucks we need to get rid of Gibbs etc etc. Has any of you had the sucess Gibbs has had in his career? anyone here think they could do better than Gibbs? Then send your applications Dan Snyder care of Redskins Park hey you might get lucky. Sure the loss is dissapointing but the last minute interception is a QB decision making error the kinds of things Ramsey has to get over but I can think of probably 30 or so OC might have gone for a pop in the end zone on 1-10 with less than 2 minutes left had the pass been made or gone incomplete we would not even be discussing this right now. Had we run it a few times and Portis fumbled or gone for a field goal and missed or even put the game into OT then lost then people on here would be yelling why didn't we go for a pop in the EZ. The same things being said about Gibbs now were being said about Martz in his first year back. We have shown improved performance game after game sure it hurts to loose but y'know when you change all of your coaches in the off season it is to be exected you go through some growing pains...

12-13-2004, 02:53 AM	#24
LRT Special Teams Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Springfield, VA Age: 58 Posts: 174	Unfortunately, being in Eastern Europe I only woke up early enough to catch the last 7 minutes. But having read about the game and seen those last critical minutes, I have a few thoughts to share. First, I have this Redskins tie that I wear to work when the team wins. Well, today I'm wearing it anyway because I'm darn proud of our guys. Second, as someone said earlier, this Skins team is the same team that earlier in the year couldn't beat the Browns and that kicked in the second half by the Eagles. And this is the same Eagles that mopped the floor with the Packers. I'd say 17-14 is very respectable performance and a performance that shows real improvement. Third, we've got some real Redskins on this team. I wasn't certain earlier in the year, but now I am. And that gives me a lot of confidence for next year. Fourth, Ramsey. The kid is a rookie in my mind. And like all rookies with big arms, he wants to gun it down field rather than read D's. Unfortunately, his first coach in the NFL encouraged that and engrained that trend. I give Patrick a lot of credit for making as much progress as he has in adapting to Gibbs' system. But, we're still going to see him make rookie mistakes, at least through the rest of this year. And, that INT was just that - a rookie mistake. Finally, I continue to hope that with this game, despite it being a loss, people - especially people in the Skins front office - will see enough progress to accept that we have the basic core we need and that the last thing we need is another off-season of wholesale changes. Cheers from Riga.

12-13-2004, 03:02 AM	#26
LRT Special Teams Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Springfield, VA Age: 58 Posts: 174	JW, I agree. We're going in the right direction and a couple of wins (maybe even three?) would be a nice way to end the season and would give us some momentum for next year.

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