Turnaround Time

[skinsguy]

Originally Posted by The Goat

Good points all around.

I keep going back to the stat somewhere that an NFL players average career is about three years, it's kind of make it or break it in that three year window. And you see a ton of teams get turned around in about that time even if they started with crap e.g. the Lions who just beat us. Absolutely terrible team when Schwartz took over. So I think there's pretty good reasons to say three years is a good benchmark for a regime/HC/GM to show the world their definitely on the right track and improving year over year, though maybe not a contender. On the far end of the spectrum you have Pete Carroll and Seattle looking like contenders after just a couple years, but they started with some real solid talent like Gmanc said about the bears.

Detroit, really, has been rebuilding for years. Every year they would add more #1 draft picks. Almost like the situation with the 49ers. Seems like they had been adding different pieces to the puzzle for several seasons, it just took the right puzzle master (head coach) to know how the puzzle pieces fit together.

[Chico23231]

I think the turnaround can happen but I think we need some fresh faces on the field to help: More Helu, Darryl Young, Fred Davis on offense. Tanard Jax, Chase, Jarvis and Jackson coming back from suspension. Maybe more Barnett.

We cant expect a turnaround with the same players on the field.

[Monkeydad]

It may have been nearly 5 years ago, but we are STILL feeling some effects from the decade of destruction which was Vinny Cerrato. The damage he did to every level of this organization has not been an easy thing to un-do, but we're getting close.

Without the bogus cap penalty, we'd be in much better shape but we do have a lot more positives than negatives going for us right now. Our season will turn around. Next year, we're going to load up this team when we can return to spending a full salary cap amount.

[SmootSmack]

Every team is different. But perhaps more importantly, turnaround is easy. Sustaining it is what's hard

[Monkeydad]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

turnaround is easy.

I bet teams like Oakland, Cleveland and Detroit would disagree.

We had a lot of issues from top to bottom from the previous "leadership" that were not easy to fix overnight. We had horrible contracts on the books with overpaid vets, missing draft picks left for a few years going forward and a roster that was assembled without a clear plan.

Coach Shanahan was probably right about it taking at least 5 years to turn this team around. He and Allen have made incredible progress without having much to work with talent-wise, pick-wise and then the salary cap hit. His second draft where he took us from having 2 picks in the first 4 rounds to a dozen picks overall was amazing to watch.

[mredskins]

If we are 0-4 come Monday morning I think the panic buttons are hit. Sunday is a must win at OAK.

[The Goat]

Nobody can deny the cap penalty hurt us. But that doesn't explain: undisciplined players; unprepared players (RG aside cuz that's different); horrible play-calling through most of Mike's tenure; horrible clock management; unmotivated and uninspired performances, with the exception of an 8 game streak last season.

I also take issue with the notion this team had no talent when Mike took over. The team gave up Zorn's last year and stats looked worse than they would otherwise be, but the defense we had in place prior to Mike's era was vastly superior to what he's conjured up. I don't think anybody can make an honest argument the other way. Yes, that defense was aged and needed additional players, but isn't that what Mike's done anyway? We've added a lot of players to the defense, and it sucks. Again, that's a staple of Mike's coaching/teams over the last decade.

But, I tend to agree with those who say give him the rest of the season IF AND ONLY IF this team starts to show better preparedness, discipline, motivation. IMO those things say everything about where a team is headed.

[Bucket]

Originally Posted by The Goat

Nobody can deny the cap penalty hurt us. But that doesn't explain: undisciplined players; unprepared players (RG aside cuz that's different); horrible play-calling through most of Mike's tenure; horrible clock management; unmotivated and uninspired performances, with the exception of an 8 game streak last season.

I also take issue with the notion this team had no talent when Mike took over. The team gave up Zorn's last year and stats looked worse than they would otherwise be, but the defense we had in place prior to Mike's era was vastly superior to what he's conjured up. I don't think anybody can make an honest argument the other way. Yes, that defense was aged and needed additional players, but isn't that what Mike's done anyway? We've added a lot of players to the defense, and it sucks. Again, that's a staple of Mike's coaching/teams over the last decade.

But, I tend to agree with those who say give him the rest of the season IF AND ONLY IF this team starts to show better preparedness, discipline, motivation. IMO those things say everything about where a team is headed.

Actually it kinda does.. You are who you are, and not many players turn a new leaf. Sometime you have to take chances for a lower buck and it shows.

[Monkeydad]

Originally Posted by Bucket

Actually it kinda does.. You are who you are, and not many players turn a new leaf. Sometime you have to take chances for a lower buck and it shows.

Yep, Meriweather wasn't in demand by any other teams. Morgan's career wasn't going anywhere. Players like Nick Barnett would probably still be unemployed, but our dire financial situation from the cap penalty gave them a spot with us out of desperation to fill the 53-man roster with more than 7th-round draft picks.

To Morgan's credit, he's been a positive contributor with his blocking and some key catches when we've needed him, but if we had a full cap, we'd likely have Vincent Jackson as WR1 and Garcon or player of comparable ability at WR2.

Of course, it's also possible we'd have Peyton Manning. I prefer a future with Griffin over 2 years of fun with Peyton, but the talks about us going after Peyton only died when the cap hit made him unaffordable...same with V-Jax, Talib, Brandon Carr...and the list goes on.

[BaltimoreSkins]

Originally Posted by The Goat

Nobody can deny the cap penalty hurt us. But that doesn't explain: undisciplined players; unprepared players (RG aside cuz that's different); horrible play-calling through most of Mike's tenure; horrible clock management; unmotivated and uninspired performances, with the exception of an 8 game streak last season.

I also take issue with the notion this team had no talent when Mike took over. The team gave up Zorn's last year and stats looked worse than they would otherwise be, but the defense we had in place prior to Mike's era was vastly superior to what he's conjured up. I don't think anybody can make an honest argument the other way. Yes, that defense was aged and needed additional players, but isn't that what Mike's done anyway? We've added a lot of players to the defense, and it sucks. Again, that's a staple of Mike's coaching/teams over the last decade.

But, I tend to agree with those who say give him the rest of the season IF AND ONLY IF this team starts to show better preparedness, discipline, motivation. IMO those things say everything about where a team is headed.

But these added players are gambles if they were shore bets then they would go for a lot more than we could afford with the cap penalties and getting the Cerratto hits taken care of. I understand the frustration, but the front office has given Mike and his staff five years, I say give him the five years to do it his way and see if we see the improvements we expect.

[skinsfaninok]

I've said this a bunch on here, I'm a MS guy but this is embarrassing. Again if we don't finish at least 8-8 he should be gone

[The Goat]

Originally Posted by skinsfaninok

I've said this a bunch on here, I'm a MS guy but this is embarrassing. Again if we don't finish at least 8-8 he should be gone

What if...we finish below .500 but Kyle and Haslett leave after the season. Would you feel more optimistic with Mike grooming RG (alone) and an upgrade at DC ?

[skinsfaninok]

honestly No, because I don't think MS is doing a great job of getting these guys prepared every week. I mean these penalties and miscues are ridiculous. Just MO though.

[Chico23231]

Can anyone make an argument that haslett should stay through the bye?

[SFREDSKIN]

Originally Posted by Chico23231

Can anyone make an argument that haslett should stay through the bye?

No, he should be gone now. How many chances do you give this guy? On paper our defense should be better, we played without Orakpo, Meriweather. Neild last year, we had Gomes and M. Williams. This year we picked Tapp. Jenkins. Amerson. Rambo, Barnett. Orakpo and Meriweather are back and the team is worse off. No more excuse.

By the way this too:

@TarikCSN: The #Redskins add G Troy Kropog to prax squad, according to NFL records. He replaces X. Nixon, who was signed by Colts. #RedskinsTalk