D.C. Examiner: Zorn's job in jeopardy? (not so fast he's coming back)

[SBXVII]

I apologize if stated prior. I voted yes, although I think he should be given another year. I said yes cause I think after our loss he showed he could beat the big dogs in their house even though it was by minimal points. The problem I have is the fact he has not shown he can adapt during the game or during the season. Simply put halfway through the game he makes no big adjustments to change a game. He has not made any big adjustments the his offensive scheme during the last 6 games in order to ensure a win. He simply believes it's all the players and their execution and not the fact that other teams now have game film to plan around what he's doing.
I think these last two games will say alot as to if he can make the adjustments or not and if not then apparently he can not put his plan from paper to field. There is no sign the team has improved in any area of the team. Which should be something we are seeing at this point. In atleast one area. Nothing. All going down hill.
If, and I say If we were to change coach's again I would have to say it's all about timing. We can bring in whoever ....Cowher and if he does not have the assistants he likes or needs then he is settling with second rate coach's and no improvement. Thought should be put into who a new coach could or would bring in prior to just blowing the team up again as well as who a new defensive coach would be good. The whole keep half the staff would have to be out the window.

[GusFrerotte]

Originally Posted by ElkridgeSkins

If Zorn gets canned, it wouldn't surprise me. It would dissapoint me, I think the real problem is Cerrato (with Snyder talking in his ear). He just doesn't seem to be able to address a need the last few years. I love some of the picks, like Landry and Horton, but the lines haven't been addressed in the top of the draft in recent years. He hasn't drafted wisely in my opinion. The O & D lines just can't man up with the better lines in the league.

The way ESPN was talking last night the Zorn to Cowher era is going to be a reality. Although Zorn would be getting a raw deal, if he has indeed lost the team, it might as well go down that way. If he lost the team already, I doubt the offseason is really going to heal that situation. Also, I don't see how he could come back in '09 without totally revamping his offensive scheme anyway. It seemed even before the bye, teams were figuring out how to stymie it(scoring wise), so Zorn would have to almost bring in a whole new system anyway.

[GusFrerotte]

Originally Posted by SBXVII

I apologize if stated prior. I voted yes, although I think he should be given another year. I said yes cause I think after our loss he showed he could beat the big dogs in their house even though it was by minimal points. The problem I have is the fact he has not shown he can adapt during the game or during the season. Simply put halfway through the game he makes no big adjustments to change a game. He has not made any big adjustments the his offensive scheme during the last 6 games in order to ensure a win. He simply believes it's all the players and their execution and not the fact that other teams now have game film to plan around what he's doing.
I think these last two games will say alot as to if he can make the adjustments or not and if not then apparently he can not put his plan from paper to field. There is no sign the team has improved in any area of the team. Which should be something we are seeing at this point. In atleast one area. Nothing. All going down hill.
If, and I say If we were to change coach's again I would have to say it's all about timing. We can bring in whoever ....Cowher and if he does not have the assistants he likes or needs then he is settling with second rate coach's and no improvement. Thought should be put into who a new coach could or would bring in prior to just blowing the team up again as well as who a new defensive coach would be good. The whole keep half the staff would have to be out the window.

I think the only way Zorn saves his job is going 2-0 and the team somehow looks much improved. That being said, I think I have a better chance scoring with a Playboy Playmate than that happening, especially how Philly is playing like a team possessed.

[SBXVII]

Originally Posted by GusFrerotte

I think the only way Zorn saves his job is going 2-0 and the team somehow looks much improved. That being said, I think I have a better chance scoring with a Playboy Playmate than that happening, especially how Philly is playing like a team possessed.

LOL. hey, could you fill me in on the fine details? LOL. Just kidding but your right.

[DynamiteRave]

Originally Posted by GusFrerotte

The way ESPN was talking last night the Zorn to Cowher era is going to be a reality. Although Zorn would be getting a raw deal, if he has indeed lost the team, it might as well go down that way. If he lost the team already, I doubt the offseason is really going to heal that situation. Also, I don't see how he could come back in '09 without totally revamping his offensive scheme anyway. It seemed even before the bye, teams were figuring out how to stymie it(scoring wise), so Zorn would have to almost bring in a whole new system anyway.

Because I am way too lazy to read through 21 pages, and because I saw that SmootSmack said in another thread that he feels the possibility of Zorn being released at around 80%, SS, our ESPN insider (if you happen to read this)... Why do you feel that theres a good chance of Zorn being released? (if you haven't already addressed that earlier)

Everyone acts like Zorn and Danny Boy have such a good relationship. I would think that Snyder would wanna see him around for at least one more season..

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by DynamiteRave

Because I am way too lazy to read through 21 pages, and because I saw that SmootSmack said in another thread that he feels the possibility of Zorn being released at around 80%, SS, our ESPN insider (if you happen to read this)... Why do you feel that theres a good chance of Zorn being released? (if you haven't already addressed that earlier)

Everyone acts like Zorn and Danny Boy have such a good relationship. I would think that Snyder would wanna see him around for at least one more season..

I think Snyder would like to keep him around. I know people think he gets a kick out of the Redskins being front page news in the off-season but in reality he'd rather just that the team win. But anyway, it's not too big a secret that there have been lots of problems in the locker room over the past month and I hear that it's getting worse. I think that everyone needs to realize that frustrations are mounting because of the losses, and the fact that the Redskins look completely non-competitive. And I would really like to see Zorn given a chance to play the guys he wants and be surrounded by the coaches he wants and fight through this. However, what Snyder doesn't want is a rehash of Spurrier where things got worse in year two and then Spurrier bolted. I don't think it's quite the same though, because I haven't heard anyone say Zorn doesn't really care (the way Spurrier didn't really seem to care).

Of course, I'm not really around the team these days but I was there for the last couple of years of Turner, the Schottenheimer days, and the Spurrier era. Turner-nice enough guy but extremely stubborn and insistent that his ways would work if only the players weren't so incompetent; Schottenheimer-earned the team's respect by respecting them and having a track record; Spurrier-would have rather been anywhere else, didn't put any effort at all into the job. I hear Zorn has Norv-like tendencies.

I think it would be a mistake to switch coaches after this season, even if Zorn resigned I would reject the resignation. The hiring itself was a head scratcher but they made their beds and should lie in them, in my opinion. I understand the fear of a complete mutiny and total failure next season. But, in my opinion, the team is not going to get significantly better until it lets go of this fear of abject failure. If it fails, it fails but I think that's better than constant change.

Anyhow, long story short. Zorn-lacking authority in the locker room, not improving, needs to show some mettle over the next couple of weeks.

[The Goat]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

I think Snyder would like to keep him around. I know people think he gets a kick out of the Redskins being front page news in the off-season but in reality he'd rather just that the team win. But anyway, it's not too big a secret that there have been lots of problems in the locker room over the past month and I hear that it's getting worse. I think that everyone needs to realize that frustrations are mounting because of the losses, and the fact that the Redskins look completely non-competitive. And I would really like to see Zorn given a chance to play the guys he wants and be surrounded by the coaches he wants and fight through this. However, what Snyder doesn't want is a rehash of Spurrier where things got worse in year two and then Spurrier bolted. I don't think it's quite the same though, because I haven't heard anyone say Zorn doesn't really care (the way Spurrier didn't really seem to care).

Of course, I'm not really around the team these days but I was there for the last couple of years of Turner, the Schottenheimer days, and the Spurrier era. Turner-nice enough guy but extremely stubborn and insistent that his ways would work if only the players weren't so incompetent; Schottenheimer-earned the team's respect by respecting them and having a track record; Spurrier-would have rather been anywhere else, didn't put any effort at all into the job. I hear Zorn has Norv-like tendencies.

I think it would be a mistake to switch coaches after this season, even if Zorn resigned I would reject the resignation. The hiring itself was a head scratcher but they made their beds and should lie in them, in my opinion. I understand the fear of a complete mutiny and total failure next season. But, in my opinion, the team is not going to get significantly better until it lets go of this fear of abject failure. If it fails, it fails but I think that's better than constant change.

Anyhow, long story short. Zorn-lacking authority in the locker room, not improving, needs to show some mettle over the next couple of weeks.

Any inside information or hints whether Zorn is really committed to staying? Have there been feelers in regard to positions back in Seattle, etc?

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by The Goat

Any inside information or hints whether Zorn is really committed to staying? Have there been feelers in regard to positions back in Seattle, etc?

I don't know anything about him going back to Seattle. I think he'd like to stay here as head coach. I think he just has to work through some obstacles.

[SBXVII]

I like Zorn. I like the way he comes across. I like the idea of a young coach who will hopefully make his mark and be here for a long time. My issues now are he is not adapting to the game. He is a salesman telling us the vacuum cleaner works. It's got to be the rug, or the way your moving the vacuum back and forth but the vacuum works. Thats all good but maybe its that the vacuum needs to be set at a higher level for thicker carpet. I know a terrible example but he has shown no ability to fix what needs to be fixed. He keeps saying it execution. Ok, maybe it is. but if the guys we have can't execute the plays you want played then you either get someone who can or scrap the play and move on. You don't keep forcing the players to try and execute something that is not working.

I don't like the fact he can't seem to make adjustments at half time. Team comes out flat and not motivated. Doing the same crap they did in the first half but expecting different results.

He reminds me of someone who is book smart. Can explain the system clearly. Smiles a lot. Always chipper. Then when its time to physically put theory to work acts confused as to why it's not working. The books don't tell you everything. Sometimes it's nice to have a little hands on to be able to know how to fix the problem. I think I'm refering to experience....which Zorn will not get if not given a chance or more time but I go back to the whole not being able to make adjustments at half time or from game to game. There is talent on this team. why in the last 8 games we look like we don't is beyond me. If its all about blocking for JC then they screwed up something, they changed something and again it's Zorn's inability to adjust and fix what changed from Gibbs to Zorn to halfway through the season.

I think he's not what Snyder expected and due to this Zorn is out this year and someone else...is in. Maybe it's a WCO guy. maybe its someone who is more a defensive coach. Maybe Snyder says the dreaded words he has tried to avoid......"Lets rebuild." cause what we have been doing year in and year out has not worked. Time to change the whole system.

[47FAN]

has the option of mike holmgren could possibly be on the redskins staff next year maybe a gm or hc been talked about?

[47FAN]

found it shouldve looked first

[GusFrerotte]

Originally Posted by 47FAN

has the option of mike holmgren could possibly be on the redskins staff next year maybe a gm or hc been talked about?

ESPN seems certain Cowher is coming next year, as I guess he has some ties with the organization. If that does indeed come true, I doubt Holmgren would be a welcome addition. Besides I think Holmgren wants to actually retire from football period.

[GusFrerotte]

Originally Posted by SBXVII

I like Zorn. I like the way he comes across. I like the idea of a young coach who will hopefully make his mark and be here for a long time. My issues now are he is not adapting to the game. He is a salesman telling us the vacuum cleaner works. It's got to be the rug, or the way your moving the vacuum back and forth but the vacuum works. Thats all good but maybe its that the vacuum needs to be set at a higher level for thicker carpet. I know a terrible example but he has shown no ability to fix what needs to be fixed. He keeps saying it execution. Ok, maybe it is. but if the guys we have can't execute the plays you want played then you either get someone who can or scrap the play and move on. You don't keep forcing the players to try and execute something that is not working.

I don't like the fact he can't seem to make adjustments at half time. Team comes out flat and not motivated. Doing the same crap they did in the first half but expecting different results.

He reminds me of someone who is book smart. Can explain the system clearly. Smiles a lot. Always chipper. Then when its time to physically put theory to work acts confused as to why it's not working. The books don't tell you everything. Sometimes it's nice to have a little hands on to be able to know how to fix the problem. I think I'm refering to experience....which Zorn will not get if not given a chance or more time but I go back to the whole not being able to make adjustments at half time or from game to game. There is talent on this team. why in the last 8 games we look like we don't is beyond me. If its all about blocking for JC then they screwed up something, they changed something and again it's Zorn's inability to adjust and fix what changed from Gibbs to Zorn to halfway through the season.

I think he's not what Snyder expected and due to this Zorn is out this year and someone else...is in. Maybe it's a WCO guy. maybe its someone who is more a defensive coach. Maybe Snyder says the dreaded words he has tried to avoid......"Lets rebuild." cause what we have been doing year in and year out has not worked. Time to change the whole system.

I think Snyder wanted Cowher last year, but Cowher wanted at least one more year off to relax before getting into the mix, so he settled with Zorn, who has not panned out the way he thought he would. The WCO is rather dated and has been figured out since it was the standard NFL offense for the better part of 20 years.

[GusFrerotte]

Originally Posted by DynamiteRave

Because I am way too lazy to read through 21 pages, and because I saw that SmootSmack said in another thread that he feels the possibility of Zorn being released at around 80%, SS, our ESPN insider (if you happen to read this)... Why do you feel that theres a good chance of Zorn being released? (if you haven't already addressed that earlier)

Everyone acts like Zorn and Danny Boy have such a good relationship. I would think that Snyder would wanna see him around for at least one more season..

Thing is Dynamite, who says they have a great relationsip? The Skins PR guys? Those guys are paid liars. Plus, what does it matter if they did get along? Zorn has fallen flat on his face, he has lost the team for the most part, and his system is a dud. Dan might have no other choice than to can him. Also we have to face another dreaded detail. We do indeed have to rebuild. Our line is shot, we have underperforming individuals, and an average QB. Not to mention the as always non existent pass rush.

[Dirtbag59]

Personally I think we should have hired Mooch. In looking back he was my favorite out of the endless pool of candidates during our incompetent coaching search. Mooch also had the experience, motivation, and personality to succeed here in Washington. Never would he have flat out blamed players publicly for not executing and never would he have had a "You ok?" moment.

I know I'm going through a lot of names these days but I would welcome Mooch to this team with open arms. Either way I'm going to support the Falcons and Ravens for the remainder of the season, and as much as I would love to say "I don't support the Redskins anymore" well quite frankly I don't think I have the heart to pull off such a feat.