Meet The Candidates: 2012 GOP Thread

[saden1]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

Up to employers. However keep in mind that these taxes are already embedded in the cost of all the goods/services we use today, costs of goods/services before the FairTax Tax is added will go down significantly.

SS & Medicare stay as is. Social Security and Medicare programs are spending programs. FairTax is focused on revenues (tax collection) only. FairTax would be implemented to be revenue neutral, spending programs and fixing SS & Medicare are separate issues.

Also, for each Head of Household or each individual with SS card, a prebate check will be sent monthly to cover the cost of the embedded Federal tax on basic necessities using current HHS poverty level calculations.

The FairTax is designed to be revenue neutral. I would argue that with no corporate, capital gains, death, etc. taxes the climate for business expansion will be excellent and we will see increased revenues to the Fed. Worst case, the percentage of the FairTax would have to be increased to cover debt reduction. A balanced budget ammendment and fiscal discipline will allow us to put our financial house in order without increases to the FairTax % IMO.

Another revenue stream that FairTax catches is the underground economy. Folks getting paid "under the table", money from illegal activities, people paid in cash/tips that aren't claimed as income. Since the FairTax is embedded in products sold, when anyone buys a prodcut/service pays the tax, no matter where/how they made their money.

see #2

Wasn't "cowardly", just had to contribute to GDP this morning and help cover the costs of Obama's spending programs and Solyndra loans.

I did make an error in a previous post in the thread. The FairTax wouldn't be added on the price of a product at the cash register as an additional cost (exclusive), like a state sales tax. The FairTax would already be an embedded cost in the price of a good/service (inclusive).

Are we talking about the 999 plan or the FairTax? Regardless of which plan we are talking about I am under the impression that they would both eliminate the payroll tax which means there will be no deposits Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security bank accounts. Ore maybe we're talking about the SS33 hybrid plan?

If one thing is fairly certain it is that if given the option of not matching employee payroll contribution most employees would probably choose to count the money and put it in their back pockets much like the airline companies did with the airline surcharge. I am not interested in doing going to do Arthur Anderson accounting here so unless you are fairly certain individuals are going to get that money in their pockets for sure you shouldn't count that money as income.

The idea of the cost of goods going down is also far fetched. It is more likely that companies would invest their savings in expanding their business or rewarding its investors. That's what I would do and if I were to lower the prices of my goods it wouldn't be by much and for long. Now if if business is booming and my demand grows I can see my price being elastic but where is this new consumption going to come from? Maybe China and India.

Another revenue stream that FairTax catches is the underground economy. Folks getting paid "under the table", money from illegal activities, people paid in cash/tips that aren't claimed as income. Since the FairTax is embedded in products sold, when anyone buys a prodcut/service pays the tax, no matter where/how they made their money.

To think the FairTax can capture revenue from under the table payments is ludicrous. This is by far the stupidest selling point I have ever heard regarding the FairTax. How are you going to count this money if it's unclaimed?

The FairTax is designed to be revenue neutral. I would argue that with no corporate, capital gains, death, etc. taxes the climate for business expansion will be excellent and we will see increased revenues to the Fed. Worst case, the percentage of the FairTax would have to be increased to cover debt reduction. A balanced budget ammendment and fiscal discipline will allow us to put our financial house in order without increases to the FairTax % IMO.

Designed to be revenue neutral? At what percentage and what date is this revenue nutrality to be had? What do we do in times of war? Increase that tax rate? The details is all in the math. I am not comfortable signing on unless we have credible figures in place.

[mlmpetert]

Originally Posted by saden1

Few questions since you guys are to cowardly to ask and answer the obvious tough questions.


1. Are you planning on mandating the payroll tax be given to employees as bonuses as part of the tax code overhaul or will you leave that up to the employers?

2. What about grandma and grandpa who don't have income? Where are their bonuses going to come from or should I say their medicare and social security?

3. Let's not forgot about the future of our children too...where the hell is the money to pay down the debt going to come from? I am guessing not from the plummeting tax revenue.

4. What if you're disabled? Are you on your own or will there be any safety net for you?

Ill answear a little differently:

1) Absolutely it has be a mandate when initially rolled out.

2) Currently 50% or 85% (depending on AGI) of SS, and i think medicare, income is counted towards your current taxable income and then taxed. These numbers would have to be adjusted to reflect a "bonus" to seniors, simply because AARP and the senior voting block is powerful enough to dictate it.

3) Revenues may not go down like some say. Some reports say its going up, some say going down while Cain says it will be revenue neutral. The thing missing from Cain's plan are details, which he can finalize based off of the current public reaction. I will also add that capital gains and estates are currently not taxed under 999, so he has a couple easy revenue boosters to employee if needed. Plus if need be you could always tax income of the wealthy higher, nobody likes those guys anyways. So maybe 9/9/9 up until you make like 250k then its 20/9/9.

4) Im not really sure what you mean? Entitlement programs not part of the tax code will continue for disabled people just like food stamps will continue for poor people. Maybe youre talking about SS and Medicare. Though 999 doesn’t detail how these are funded theyre not going away, it would be politically impossible. As long as it’s a revenue neutral event and still pulls in 2.2 trillion then neither will go away and everyone’s happy. Cain also touts the Chilean Model for SS for fixing SS. Medicare is the much bigger issue but that will have to be dealt with anyways.

[12thMan]

So Obama showing his birth cert made....Obama look foolish? Um...big fat fail, sir. And some "expert" maintains it's still a fake? C'mon man.

[SBXVII]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

So Obama showing his birth cert made....Obama look foolish? Um...big fat fail, sir. And some "expert" maintains it's still a fake? C'mon man.

It was an embarrassment because Obama thought by simply showing his or a fake certificate the public would shut up and move on. Instead it brought about more questions which he has failed to answer. He would have been better off simply saying he couldn't locate a copy and move on as he had done for the first part of his tenure.

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by SBXVII

It was an embarrassment because Obama thought by simply showing his or a fake certificate the public would shut up and move on. Instead it brought about more questions which he has failed to answer. He would have been better off simply saying he couldn't locate a copy and move on as he had done for the first part of his tenure.

What on God's green earth are you talking about? And for the love of Christ, please stop trafficking World Net Daily, Jerome Corsi, and the rest of those nuts over there.

The State Dept says his citizenship is good, the state of Hawaii, which has a Republican Gov., have provided both long and short forms. But of course all of these different players, the White House included...and don't forget the FBI and Supreme Court, that have thrown out case after case, are all a part of a mass cover-up to keep Obama in office. Yeah, okay.

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by SBXVII

It was an embarrassment because Obama thought by simply showing his or a fake certificate the public would shut up and move on. Instead it brought about more questions which he has failed to answer. He would have been better off simply saying he couldn't locate a copy and move on as he had done for the first part of his tenure.

There's absolutely no doubt in my mind that a credible news organization such as CNN isn't enough to persuade you, because in your mind CNN is in collusion with gov't officials at every level to cover-up this embarrassment. In fact, I'm sure there was a secret internal memo circulating to literally thousands of federal and state government employees forbidding them to come forward and blow the lid off this whole thing.

CNN investigation: Obama 'birther' claims have no merit - CNN

[Chico23231]

Originally Posted by SBXVII

It was an embarrassment because Obama thought by simply showing his or a fake certificate the public would shut up and move on. Instead it brought about more questions which he has failed to answer. He would have been better off simply saying he couldn't locate a copy and move on as he had done for the first part of his tenure.

oh wow. SBX you really sounding like a Trump supporter on this one.

[saden1]

Originally Posted by SBXVII

It was an embarrassment because Obama thought by simply showing his or a fake certificate the public would shut up and move on. Instead it brought about more questions which he has failed to answer. He would have been better off simply saying he couldn't locate a copy and move on as he had done for the first part of his tenure.

Amen brother....preach on. I was thinking the other day how it's possible for a man not born here to be president and it dawned on me that the mother fcker has to be the most connected person in the history of the world! I mean, you got to figure a shit ton of people are helping him cover it all up. Sometimes I wonder if the GOP is in on it too. Or maybe they're just powerless to stop whoever is behind Obama's presidency? Who do you think is that powerful? The mob? The Illuminati? The Freemasons? The Saudis? Skill and Bones?


All of this makes you think the world ain't right. Hopefully it isn't too late to take our country back.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by saden1

Amen brother....preach on. I was thinking the other day how it's possible for a man not born here to be president and it dawned on me that the mother fcker has to be the most connected person in the history of the world! I mean, you got to figure a shit ton of people are helping him cover it all up. Sometimes I wonder if the GOP is in on it too. Or maybe they're just powerless to stop whoever is behind Obama's presidency? Who do you think is that powerful? The mob? The Illuminati? The Freemasons? The Saudis? Skill and Bones?


All of this makes you think the world ain't right. Hopefully it isn't too late to take our country back.

You're a fool. A damn fool....we all know it's the Stonecutters running sh**

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

You're a fool. A damn fool....we all know it's the Stonecutters running sh**

LOL

The Simpsons: Stonecutters Song "We Do" -...

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

You're a fool. A damn fool....we all know it's the Stonecutters running sh**

for real tho.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by saden1

Amen brother....preach on. I was thinking the other day how it's possible for a man not born here to be president and it dawned on me that the mother fcker has to be the most connected person in the history of the world! I mean, you got to figure a shit ton of people are helping him cover it all up. Sometimes I wonder if the GOP is in on it too. Or maybe they're just powerless to stop whoever is behind Obama's presidency? Who do you think is that powerful? The mob? The Illuminati? The Freemasons? The Saudis? Skill and Bones?


All of this makes you think the world ain't right. Hopefully it isn't too late to take our country back.

Its probably the same people who blew up the WTB and made it look like a terrorist attack.

[MTK]

We're really back on this birther crap?

[12thMan]

Have either of you guys seen Politifact's breakdown of Cain's 999 plan. It's a pretty straight forward comparison to the current tax code, but there are still many details that haven't been revealed yet.

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

Have either of you guys seen Politifact's breakdown of Cain's 999 plan. It's a pretty straight forward comparison to the current tax code, but there are still many details that haven't been revealed yet.

I have not, but I'll take a look.

EDIT: Just got done on Politifact and I'm coming away from that and briefly reading some critics analysis on the 999 plan, thinking it needs some serious tweaks. If the ultimate goal is FairTax, run on that and go straight to it. It think this 999 interim step is a mistake and an unnecessary complication.