What would it take?

[Giantone]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

and G1 for you to remain intellectually honest with your expressed statement, I guess that means that, in your eyes, all positive economic news from Jan 20th goes squarely on Trump's positive balance sheet?

I wish the Giants defense could deflect pass's like you guys are doing with Trump.This whole thread is about Trump but Trump supporters are having a hard time defending him so we turn it back on Obama who is gone.
Cred as you and I both know some is and some isn't ,might not be what you want to hear but it's the truth .Trump has fucked up all this Russian shit and it's coming back to haunt him.Could Obama had done more to stop Putin,no,he did as much diplomatically as possible.The last thing anyone wanted was another war .The last thing he was going to do in an election year is tangle with Russia when Americans are sick of Iraq and Afghanistan and still on the border(of war) with Iran.people are bitching about "big goverment " and military spending but if we had gone military with Russia we would be send National Guards Men and Women to Russia to fight becuase we have outsourced the Military (thanks Mr Chaney).Obama hands were tied.

[NC_Skins]

Originally Posted by Chico23231

So so funny that Russia is now some sort of issue when for most of the Obama presidency, Putin outmaneuvered US interest and Obama personally all over the globe.

Where was the outrage over Crimea, Ukraine, hacking and leaking across the globe, giving Snowden sanctuary, major arms deals with Iran, military action in Syria against US back troops which turned the tide where Assad is winning that war, etc.

???? You were ok with that???

Just curious how you think Putin outmaneuvered Obama and the US? Also, what exactly were you looking for in response to counter these Russian moves?

I keep hearing this repeated so I want a genuine answer.

[Chico23231]

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

Just curious how you think Putin outmaneuvered Obama and the US? Also, what exactly were you looking for in response to counter these Russian moves?

I keep hearing this repeated so I want a genuine answer.

You lead. That's how you handle it.

In most case he sat on his hands. Its just funny now why Russia is an issue when before the media and country never questioned anything. Funny how that hypocrisy works.


I listed the above outmaneuvering...Syria and Eastern Europe mostly. But political influence in the Middle east is just shocking. Did you hear, that Turkey is cuddling up with Russia now? Do you know how important Turkey is in that region?

He beat poor Obama down just bout everywhere. There was an world wide ass-kicking tour.

[NC_Skins]

Originally Posted by Chico23231

You lead. That's how you handle it.

In most case he sat on his hands. Its just funny now why Russia is an issue when before the media and country never questioned anything. Funny how that hypocrisy works.


I listed the above outmaneuvering...Syria and Eastern Europe mostly. But political influence in the Middle east is just shocking. Did you hear, that Turkey is cuddling up with Russia now? Do you know how important Turkey is in that region?

He beat poor Obama down just bout everywhere. There was an world wide ass-kicking tour.

You straight avoided the answer. I'll ask it again.


In what ways do you think Putin outmaneuvered Obama and the US? Also, what exactly were you looking for in response to counter these Russian moves?

[Chico23231]

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

You straight avoided the answer. I'll ask it again.


In what ways do you think Putin outmaneuvered Obama and the US? Also, what exactly were you looking for in response to counter these Russian moves?

I thought my response and my previous post were clear. If not, here some folks from your side who actually sum it up nicely:

How Putin Outmaneuvered Obama in Syria and Ukraine | The Huffington Post

This just speaks to Ukraine and Syria.




Like I stated before, this Turkey and Iranian stuff is serious. You remember this?: https://www.wsj.com/articles/turkey-...der-1448356509

Now that takes balls....could you imagine shooting down a Russian fighter? And they didn't apologize.....

And now Turkey is at the table with Russia forming bonds and making deals...interesting. Shooting down a plane, making a statement...a serious one and now they are bargaining, forming agendas, policy....

Interesting, huh?

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

You straight avoided the answer. I'll ask it again.


In what ways do you think Putin outmaneuvered Obama and the US? Also, what exactly were you looking for in response to counter these Russian moves?

Using Crimea as an example. Russia physically took over/annexed land of another country that we had a treaty with Ukraine, Russia and us as guarantors. And they hold that land today. I would consider that an example of outmanuevering us.

As for the response, that goes to my thread on economic sanctions. Did we want to create an equivalent to the cuban missile crisis in Russia's backyard? Obviously Pres Obama did not - and I do believe public sentiment backed him in not. But would a different President, say Reagan, have found a pressure point that might have worked.

Here is one that we know Russia doesn't like, and who knows how the events would have played out, but you asked for a counter response other then what we did:

February 27th, 2014 is when Crimea's parliament was seized. March 1st the US announces in response to instability in the region, and the threat of "unknown actors" seizing Ukrainian warships with suspected cruise missile capabilities, we are moving THAAD anti-ballistic missile technology to Poland, and immediately beginning work on the long delayed abm shield.

The Russians still don't want ABM tech in Poland, and you would have put a risk to Russian goals, without dropping bombs.

Another, much more risky option, would have been blockading Kaliningrad, using the risk to Poland and Lithuania's borders as the rationale. Sure everyone knows it's really about Crimea, but again, diplomacy doesn't only mean that you roll over and let the other countries walk over your interest.

Would either of those worked, would they have sparked WW3. I don't know. Depends on how crazy Putin is, but I would bet you Crimea would be part of Ukraine again.

[mooby]

Originally Posted by Chico23231

You lead. That's how you handle it.

In most case he sat on his hands. Its just funny now why Russia is an issue when before the media and country never questioned anything. Funny how that hypocrisy works.


I listed the above outmaneuvering...Syria and Eastern Europe mostly. But political influence in the Middle east is just shocking. Did you hear, that Turkey is cuddling up with Russia now? Do you know how important Turkey is in that region?

He beat poor Obama down just bout everywhere. There was an world wide ass-kicking tour.

Chico I agree that the last administration wasn't successful in reigning in Putin's unchecked abuses of power, but that's the problem. How do you successfully convince a dictator to check himself without starting a major war against arguably your biggest rival? Clearly sanctions aren't enough, and now that Trump has eliminated those what do we do now? It seems Trump's answer is to buddy up to Russia and ignore whatever line they want to cross next.

[TheMalcolmConnection]

I'm trying to look at this without considering past presidencies...

It is a total, 100% shit show. There is no one to blame but Trump.

In the grand scheme of everything, it's still extremely early in his presidency, but good lord, everything is falling apart and I don't think you can blame the media or blame either party. Sure (and I'm well aware of this fact) EVERYTHING he does is under the hottest microscope of all time, so it's reported on quite a bit. He's putting people who were "loyal" in positions of power; qualifications be damned.

I almost laugh when I hear some of the people he is hiring... It's like he intentionally picks the worst possible people for their jobs. There are a couple I agree with, but 80%-90% are just total head-scratchers.

I guess getting back to the question at hand, what would it take? Right now it would take a hell of a lot. I consider myself a reasonable person and I might be past changing at this point unless he does a total 180. We all know that isn't going to happen.

[CRedskinsRule]

I don't think - this close to the transition - that you can ignore the state of affairs the last President left the current administration. Just like in the beginning of Pres. Obama's administration the economy and surrounding travesties were direct consequences of the Bush administration.

I also think the major foot dragging in the senate hasn't enabled Trump to have his full team in place nearly a month into his administration, and that leaves more empty positions to be filled.

That said, I don't think Trump's campaign transition was good. I think his focus on pushing out executive orders every other day prevented some groundwork to be laid down, and for as radical as he wanted to change many departments he didn't account for the natural inertia of bureaucracies.

And even though he knows the media is, in general, against a non-liberal agenda, he failed to account for the sway it has over the day to day mood of the country. And he gave too much value to those who thought alternative media methods could counterbalance a heavyweight like CNN when it marshall's it's resources against your agenda.

[TheMalcolmConnection]

I need to find the article where this neutral economist predicted that we would definitely see a bit of an economic boom if Trump got elected. He also predicted that if he does proceed with his promises we'll see a sharp drop-off after a year or two. I need to find it. Was a really good article, but some of the stuff was way over my head.

[Chico23231]

Originally Posted by TheMalcolmConnection

I need to find the article where this neutral economist predicted that we would definitely see a bit of an economic boom if Trump got elected. He also predicted that if he does proceed with his promises we'll see a sharp drop-off after a year or two. I need to find it. Was a really good article, but some of the stuff was way over my head.

I think its likely we will see a recession soon, because, well, they happen regularly:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o..._United_States

Im thinking if it happens this coming time its gonna be because of China's influence of their own changing economy and how we are depending on cheap consumer goods.

While Im not fully behind Dodd-Frank, it does do some good things...we are more prepared than ever.

[TheMalcolmConnection]

Obama definitely had his failings, and maybe I'm totally off-base here, but I think the big concern with Russia is it seems like many parts of the Trump administration have some deep ties with a country that traditionally hasn't been an ally.

[Chico23231]

Russia and Turkey close ranks. A victory for Putin? - CSMonitor.com

The extent to which the US is being vilified across the board [in Turkey], on a whole range of issues, obviously sets the stage for cooperation with the Russians,” says Bulent Aliriza, director of the Turkey Project at the Center for Strategic and International Studies (CSIS) in Washington.

“From the macro-geopolitical point of view, this is obviously a victory for Russia,” says Mr. Aliriza, noting the “very clear” significance of a US and NATO ally cooperating so closely with Russia. “Within the region, it is also a victory for Russia because Turkey changed its policy almost 180 degrees in Syria.”


Outmaneuvering in Turkey...which affects parts of Europe and the Middle East

[MTK]

Bye Felicia

Andrew Puzder withdraws as a labor secretary nominee - CNNPolitics.com

[Chico23231]

Originally Posted by MTK

Bye Felicia

Andrew Puzder withdraws as a labor secretary nominee - CNNPolitics.com

This guy is back to flipping burgers....Sad!