Are you buying into the Shanaplan?

[Ruhskins]

Originally Posted by Chico23231

Yeah, you always gotta spend to add quality, but you have to spend wisely and bring in good players, but good people as well.


Look to the Eagles on what not to do...Reid was crazy and spent oodles for over priced free agents and look where they are now. Glad we dont do that ish anymore.

I'm still shocked that the Iggles basically took our blueprint for losing under Vinny and followed it step by step. They got a whole bunch of pricey free agents (some past their primes) and let their o-line deteriorate.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by Chico23231

Build through the draft, what a concept right?

East Division Champs after the 3rd year? NO question the plan has worked. HTTR

Should be the first of many with RGIII

[MTK]

Kinda felt like Reid and the Eagles got desperate the last couple of years. I guess he saw his window to win it all coming to a close so he gambled on some big free agents and lost. His drafts lately were also lacking.

[donofriose]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

Kinda felt like Reid and the Eagles got desperate the last couple of years. I guess he saw his window to win it all coming to a close so he gambled on some big free agents and lost. His drafts lately were also lacking.

Started to build his team like Washington Redskins of old by just signing and trading for big free agents instead of building his team through the draft and a few key moves. It is what happens when teams get desperate.

[SmootSmack]

I think the Eagles are actually in pretty good shape as far as having draft picks and even cap room moving forward, particularly when they move Vick.

I don't think their turnaround time will be too long

I'm curious what Reid's legacy will be. Like if I were an Eagles fan, would I look back on these past 14 years and say "We really had one of the better franchises for nearly a decade and a half" or would I say "Reid stayed too long and for what? No rings. Had we made a change a few years back maybe we'd have at least one ring"

[MTK]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

I think the Eagles are actually in pretty good shape as far as having draft picks and even cap room moving forward, particularly when they move Vick.

I don't think their turnaround time will be too long

I'm curious what Reid's legacy will be. Like if I were an Eagles fan, would I look back on these past 14 years and say "We really had one of the better franchises for nearly a decade and a half" or would I say "Reid stayed too long and for what? No rings. Had we made a change a few years back maybe we'd have at least one ring"

Knowing Eagles fans they are saying good riddance.

Depending on who their next coach is, I think in time they may look back and have a different view on Reid. Or at least they should... he had a lot of success there. Granted they didn't win it all, but still. Let's see them go through 20 years of mediocrity like we have post Gibbs 1.0 and see how they feel.

[BigHairedAristocrat]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

Knowing Eagles fans they are saying good riddance.

Depending on who their next coach is, I think in time they may look back and have a different view on Reid. Or at least they should... he had a lot of success there. Granted they didn't win it all, but still. Let's see them go through 20 years of mediocrity like we have post Gibbs 1.0 and see how they feel.

As someone who has several friends who are eagles fans, you are correct. Theyre my friends, but from a football fan perspective, theyre like spoiled little children. Other than New England, i dont think any other organization has had as much success over the past 14 years as the Eagles. The Giants have been very good recently, but as soon as Coughlin retires, they'll be doo-doo.

Reid is THE reason the franchise has been as successful as it has the past few years. I dont care who they hire - the chances of him having even half the success as Reid is slim. I just dont get this move. Dont fire your GOOD head coach unless you have someone better lined up. The eagles dont have anyone better lined up. their rumored list of HC candiates is full of people who havent proven a thing and/or been less successful than Reid. Its like they made a change just to make a change. It just doesnt make sense to me.

[donofriose]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

As someone who has several friends who are eagles fans, you are correct. Theyre my friends, but from a football fan perspective, theyre like spoiled little children. Other than New England, i dont think any other organization has had as much success over the past 14 years as the Eagles. The Giants have been very good recently, but as soon as Coughlin retires, they'll be doo-doo.

Reid is THE reason the franchise has been as successful as it has the past few years. I dont care who they hire - the chances of him having even half the success as Reid is slim. I just dont get this move. Dont fire your GOOD head coach unless you have someone better lined up. The eagles dont have anyone better lined up. their rumored list of HC candiates is full of people who havent proven a thing and/or been less successful than Reid. Its like they made a change just to make a change. It just doesnt make sense to me.

2010 and before they were a good organization, ever since then... not so much. Everyone could tell that team was going downhill fast. Reid needed Johnson and once he lost him as a DC that team completely changed. Reid banked on Vick and he lost. He lost his touch and needs a fresh start. The eagles started to build their team like the Skins of old (signing a bunch of big name free agents) and now they realized, just like we did the hard way, you do not build a team like you do in Madden. Sometimes it is just time, similar to Shanahan at Denver

[Skinzman]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

As someone who has several friends who are eagles fans, you are correct. Theyre my friends, but from a football fan perspective, theyre like spoiled little children. Other than New England, i dont think any other organization has had as much success over the past 14 years as the Eagles. The Giants have been very good recently, but as soon as Coughlin retires, they'll be doo-doo.

Reid is THE reason the franchise has been as successful as it has the past few years. I dont care who they hire - the chances of him having even half the success as Reid is slim. I just dont get this move. Dont fire your GOOD head coach unless you have someone better lined up. The eagles dont have anyone better lined up. their rumored list of HC candiates is full of people who havent proven a thing and/or been less successful than Reid. Its like they made a change just to make a change. It just doesnt make sense to me.

There are quite a few years of SB winners that will disagree with that first bolded statement. They made the SB once but have still never won it as a franchise. I would take a SB victory with a few bad years mixed in than a visit but nothing else in their existence. They dont drop far on the list, but only one team with more success?

As to the second, the Eagles have been irrelevant since the loss of Jim Johnson. That defense allowed Reid to be successful with flawed QB's. Reid could never get away from the passing game enough to realize that he always had better RB's than he did QB's. Westbrook/McNabb... Im taking Westbrook. Im also Taking Shady over Vick/Kolb/Foles.

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

I think the Eagles are actually in pretty good shape as far as having draft picks and even cap room moving forward, particularly when they move Vick.

I don't think their turnaround time will be too long

I'm curious what Reid's legacy will be. Like if I were an Eagles fan, would I look back on these past 14 years and say "We really had one of the better franchises for nearly a decade and a half" or would I say "Reid stayed too long and for what? No rings. Had we made a change a few years back maybe we'd have at least one ring"

Safe to say this is a critical time for the Eagles? They do have some nice offensive talent, decent in terms of picks and cap room but they've got nothing of note to build around on defense, their OL is ok but aging at key places. The right coach can come in and turn around quickly or the wrong guy can crater them into a full rebuild.

I've got lots of family who are Eagles fans who have been calling for the end of Reid for at least 5 years. Those type of fans are in the second line of your thought but I think in a couple of years they will yearn for the consistency of winning 9-12 games per season of most of the Reid era.

[punch it in]

Originally Posted by Skinzman

There are quite a few years of SB winners that will disagree with that first bolded statement. They made the SB once but have still never won it as a franchise. I would take a SB victory with a few bad years mixed in than a visit but nothing else in their existence. They dont drop far on the list, but only one team with more success?

As to the second, the Eagles have been irrelevant since the loss of Jim Johnson. That defense allowed Reid to be successful with flawed QB's. Reid could never get away from the passing game enough to realize that he always had better RB's than he did QB's. Westbrook/McNabb... Im taking Westbrook. Im also Taking Shady over Vick/Kolb/Foles.

I totally agree with your first point. I would say the Colts are one team for sure that has been successful and they did win one. I would say the Giants and their two superbowl victories. The Saints have been good for several years and have a ring to show for it. Packers too. Favre to Rodgers and each has a SB victory over that span.
As for your second point - yes the death of Jim Johnson was a huge part of the Eagles decline. However I wouldnt call Mcnabb a flawed QB. I think he was a great qb for several years in Philly.

[Skinzman]

Originally Posted by punch it in

I totally agree with your first point. I would say the Colts are one team for sure that has been successful and they did win one. I would say the Giants and their two superbowl victories. The Saints have been good for several years and have a ring to show for it. Packers too. Favre to Rodgers and each has a SB victory over that span.
As for your second point - yes the death of Jim Johnson was a huge part of the Eagles decline. However I wouldnt call Mcnabb a flawed QB. I think he was a great qb for several years in Philly.

McNabb could throw three passes.

The screen...
The bomb...
And the into the ground 3 yards in front of a completely wide open WR 15 yards down field...

Im not saying McNabb was terrible at his height in Philly, but I do not consider him great by any means. He was saved by a better than most people ever recognize defense and an under rated RB in Westbrook who took screens to places where people shouldnt be taking screens.

Reid deserves a lot of credit for covering up McNabbs deficiencies, but he never figured out that the biggest thing covering those up was his RB. He never realized that the QB doesnt have to be the only thing to win big games.

[punch it in]

Originally Posted by Skinzman

McNabb could throw three passes.

The screen...
The bomb...
And the into the ground 3 yards in front of a completely wide open WR 15 yards down field...

Im not saying McNabb was terrible at his height in Philly, but I do not consider him great by any means. He was saved by a better than most people ever recognize defense and an under rated RB in Westbrook who took screens to places where people shouldnt be taking screens.

Reid deserves a lot of credit for covering up McNabbs deficiencies, but he never figured out that the biggest thing covering those up was his RB. He never realized that the QB doesnt have to be the only thing to win big games.

He also had lackluster talent at the wr position for years in Philly. Also Westbrook was a great pass catching rb, but there was no true run game and that makes it very hard to open up the passing game. Yet he did it in a big way. The one year he had TO they went to the superbowl. The guy has thrown for almost 40,000 yards. When he became less mobile he still won alot of games. His career ended ugly and he comes across as a borderline jerk, but at his peak in Philly he was one of the best.
Edit: i guess what im getting at is that I think Mcnabb covered up for alot of inefficiencies on that offense - run game, wr talent. As opposed to the other way around.

[Skinzman]

Originally Posted by punch it in

He also had lackluster talent at the wr position for years in Philly. Also Westbrook was a great pass catching rb, but there was no true run game and that makes it very hard to open up the passing game. Yet he did it in a big way. The one year he had TO they went to the superbowl. The guy has thrown for almost 40,000 yards. When he became less mobile he still won alot of games. His career ended ugly and he comes across as a borderline jerk, but at his peak in Philly he was one of the best.
Edit: i guess what im getting at is that I think Mcnabb covered up for alot of inefficiencies on that offense - run game, wr talent. As opposed to the other way around.

To be fair, I blame the run game on Reid. He seemed to refuse to commit to it. When he did, Westbrook had some really good rushing games.

As for the whole TO thing. McNabb completed plenty of deep passes without him. As well as they won every playoff game that year that TO did not play in and lost the only one that TO did play in. Having bad WR's wasnt one of McNabbs problems. McNabbs problem was that if you took away the deep game and had LB's that could stop the screen game, The Eagles offense stalled due to the fact that it could only do three things, and Andy Reid was allergic to running the ball, so the Eagles offense only did two things. Reid schemed both into his plays. If McNabb found one or the other, good things happened. Otherwise, not so much. Pick your poison and McNabb posted great stats, able to stop both and McNabb became average at best.

[Ruhskins]

Originally Posted by Skinzman

To be fair, I blame the run game on Reid. He seemed to refuse to commit to it. When he did, Westbrook had some really good rushing games.

As for the whole TO thing. McNabb completed plenty of deep passes without him. As well as they won every playoff game that year that TO did not play in and lost the only one that TO did play in. Having bad WR's wasnt one of McNabbs problems. McNabbs problem was that if you took away the deep game and had LB's that could stop the screen game, The Eagles offense stalled due to the fact that it could only do three things, and Andy Reid was allergic to running the ball, so the Eagles offense only did two things. Reid schemed both into his plays. If McNabb found one or the other, good things happened. Otherwise, not so much. Pick your poison and McNabb posted great stats, able to stop both and McNabb became average at best.

Reid was also the Jedi Master of clock mismanagement.