Broncos to trade Cutler

[Hog1]

Originally Posted by irish

I was being sarcastic and that doesnt come thru well in this format. The Skins have been giving away draft pick for years (remember TJ Duckett?), getting zip in return, and nobody was bothered. In fact many said the draft was too unpredictable and no guarantee of getting good players. When I pointed out that successful teams like the Steelers highly value their picks and build thru the draft while the Skins way wasnt working, I was called stupid, a know-nothing, not a real skins fan, etc. Now everyone seems to think giving away picks is a big deal and I think its funny. The Skins way of doing business does directly correlate to their lack of success on the field and I think Skins fans may be starting to realize that.

That said, I think this is actually a good use of draft picks since it will provide the Skins a big upgrade at the position that has been holding the O back.

Easy............Yoda, your self-righteousness, and delusions of grandeur are spinning out of control..........

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by irish

I was being sarcastic and that doesnt come thru well in this format. The Skins have been giving away draft pick for years (remember TJ Duckett?), getting zip in return, and nobody was bothered. In fact many said the draft was too unpredictable and no guarantee of getting good players. When I pointed out that successful teams like the Steelers highly value their picks and build thru the draft while the Skins way wasnt working, I was called stupid, a know-nothing, not a real skins fan, etc. Now everyone seems to think giving away picks is a big deal and I think its funny. The Skins way of doing business does directly correlate to their lack of success on the field and I think Skins fans may be starting to realize that.

That said, I think this is actually a good use of draft picks since it will provide the Skins a big upgrade at the position that has been holding the O back.

But now you're stupid, know nothing, etc, whatever you want to be called for a different reason. It's because while you value the draft picks themselves, you also have to value the young players they become. If you don't do that, then you're not following the Steelers model, you're following your own, "I'm always right no matter what" model. I don't like that, of course. But you're entirely allowed to believe what you want. But when you try to be pseudo knowledgable, people are going to say mean things to you. I know I probably will.

[jbcjr14]

I stepped outside this morning and its official...the sky is falling.

[SmootSmack]

I think

-A lot of the people here preaching patience are being quite hypocritical considering how so many of us want to cut Malcolm Kelly and Devin Thomas now because of their lack of production their rookie season

-I don't fault the Redskins for looking for ways they think could make the team better

-I think this is less about Cutler and more about a lack of absolute faith in Campbell. And, as much as I like Campbell, when you look around and see the success some of his peers have had it's hard not to get frustrated.

-I don't know that Cutler is a franchise QB per se (mainly because I haven't figured out how I'd define that), but at this point I think he's better than Campbell and that will probably continue, no matter how good Campbell gets

-The sky isn't falling, and people have to stop assuming we're trading every player on our roster. "Oh my God!!! I can't believe we're trading Cooley. This sucks, Everything sucks!!!!"

-My gut (I've lost considerable weight lately, so it may not be speaking as loudly anymore) tells me that Cutler isn't coming here. We can't and don't want to offer as much as some other teams are reportedly offering

-If there is any way at all to get Cutler and keep our #13 overall pick (Oher!!!), I'd do it

[BleedBurgundy]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

I think

-A lot of the people here preaching patience are being quite hypocritical considering how so many of us want to cut Malcolm Kelly and Devin Thomas now because of their lack of production their rookie season

-I don't fault the Redskins for looking for ways they think could make the team better

-I think this is less about Cutler and more about a lack of absolute faith in Campbell. And, as much as I like Campbell, when you look around and see the success some of his peers have had it's hard not to get frustrated.

-I don't know that Cutler is a franchise QB per se (mainly because I haven't figured out how I'd define that), but at this point I think he's better than Campbell and that will probably continue, no matter how good Campbell gets

-The sky isn't falling, and people have to stop assuming we're trading every player on our roster. "Oh my God!!! I can't believe we're trading Cooley. This sucks, Everything sucks!!!!"

-My gut (I've lost considerable weight lately, so it may not be speaking as loudly anymore) tells me that Cutler isn't coming here. We can't and don't want to offer as much as some other teams are reportedly offering

-If there is any way at all to get Cutler and keep our #13 overall pick (Oher!!!), I'd do it

I really like this post, but you have to admit that over the last 10 years, we've proven pretty definitively that the "redskins way" is not the way to build a championship team. I'm not pissed so much with the specifics of this as I am with the continuing tradition of chasing any name that becomes available.

[skinsfanthru&thru]

The basic value for Cutler in general would probably be at about 1 1st rounder and a 2nd-4th round from the following year. He has a great arm and good mobility, but has a losing record and averages an int in every game started. In their current situation though, I personally believe Cutler's value is drastically lower because the Broncos HAVE to trade him. No team should give up more than a 1st or 2nd for him especially not the Skins since they are the only team with a young qb who's a legitimate starter that's progressed over the last couple seasons.
This trade talk is one reason why I hate the offseason because our team always seems to be one of the main contenders in throwing away draft picks for another teams problem.

[SirClintonPortis]

Really now. Who expects merely two first rounders to be traded for Jay Cutler? Jerruh has already raised the price by trading two firsts for Roy Williams, and Cutler is, or at least is perceived to be, worth far more than Williams.

[Takeuon]

"Even if JC flops this year, we still have Colt Brennan who has shown flashes whenever he's gotten to play. And Todd Collins has proven a reliable backup. Cutler is too costly - emotionally and in terms of draft picks. Plus, JC is well liked by his teammates, so I hear. O-line is O for OLD and we will need a running back soon. Don't mortgage the franchise when you don't need to."

[EARTHQUAKE2689]

Originally Posted by Takeuon

"Even if JC flops this year, we still have Colt Brennan who has shown flashes whenever he's gotten to play. And Todd Collins has proven a reliable backup. Cutler is too costly - emotionally and in terms of draft picks. Plus, JC is well liked by his teammates, so I hear. O-line is O for OLD and we will need a running back soon. Don't mortgage the franchise when you don't need to."

Seriously man

[celts32]

IMO Cutler is easily worth a couple #1 picks and then some. Maybe since the Redskins have not had a quality QB in so long we forget how valuable they are. A QB as promising as Cutler at his age is NEVER available in trade so we can throw everything we think we know about player trade value out the window. Great QB play covers up other weaknesses...when the running game is stopped Cutler still gives you a chance...defense has a bad day Cutler still gives you a chance. I am normally a lets build through the draft guy...but in this instance I would pay whatever it takes!

The only commodity the redskins hold that I would be reluctant to include is Laron Landry.

[MTK]

Thankfully we have a QB in JC who isn't going to let this talk ruffle his feathers, at least not in public. Still, this rumor has me ticked off. I don't think this would be a good move for a variety of reasons.

1) I don't want to see us giving away more draft picks. I don't think the Broncos are going to get the two #1 picks they're asking for, but the price will be steep regardless. I'm guessing our #13 this year and another high rounder next year.

2) I think it would be a bad move for the locker room. JC is well liked and respected by his teammates. Cutler, at least character wise, is not on par with JC. I think this move would piss off a lot of guys in the locker room. Would they get over it and still play hard in the end? Sure. But it's these type of disruptive moves that keep the Redskins in perennial transition mode. Say hello to 8-8 again.

3) I can't for the life of me understand why they want to pull the plug on JC already. They're not even willing to see what he can do in year #2 under Zorn? That really boggles my mind. At least give him year #2 and if this year doesn't work out, don't re-sign him next year and then look at other options. I think this is jumping the gun and only shows that Snyder is reverting back to his pre-Gibbs days of looking for the splashy move and his overall lack of patience in putting together a long term winner.

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Thankfully we have a QB in JC who isn't going to let this talk ruffle his feathers, at least not in public. Still, this rumor has me ticked off. I don't think this would be a good move for a variety of reasons.

3) I can't for the life of me understand why they want to pull the plug on JC already. They're not even willing to see what he can do in year #2 under Zorn? That really boggles my mind. At least give him year #2 and if this year doesn't work out, don't re-sign him next year and then look at other options. I think this is jumping the gun and only shows that Snyder is reverting back to his pre-Gibbs days of looking for the splashy move and his overall lack of patience in putting together a long term winner.

For a long time I felt the same way Matty but here's the thing, to win in the NFL you've got to excel at 3 things and in this order:
-Have an excellent QB
-Rush the QB
-Protect the QB

You said it perfectly, 'if it doesn't work out don't re-sign him and look at other options'. We've been doing that at that position for over 20 years. This is an opportunity to lock that position down for the next 8-12 years. I'm still not sold that it's the right move, but I am convinced that it's not a wrong move. That is, hands down, the most important position on the football field and to be able to go into the next 8-12 offseasons without that being a question has to be pursued.

[Paintrain]

Let me restate that I am on now on the fence for this deal. I was against it initially but am warming to the possibility since we've not had a proven franchise QB since Theisman. Campbell may be that guy, but at this point short of a NFC Championship Game run this is his last season in DC.

Here's what some people don't seem to grasp when bemoaning giving up draft picks. This trade isn't about the 2009 Redskins, it's about the Redskins for the next 10 years. Of course the argument can be made that we'd be 'wasting valuable picks' for one player that may not represent a dramatic upgrade from what we already have. The logic however behind making this move has to be that our FO believes Cutler is a sure fire, once in a decade type of player and they aren't going to be able to get one like him elsewhere.

Let's face it, even teams that draft well there's still about a 35% chance your picks will be busts. At #13 we'd be looking at LDE, LB and OL in that order. What happened the last time we drafted a DE in the 1st round-Kennard Lang. Last time we drafted a LB-Lavar Arrington. Last time we drafted a OL-Chris Samuels. We hit on 33% of those picks. Cutler is already an established player, there's not a 67% chance he fails now.

Yes, good teams build thru the draft, but guess what-so do BAD teams! The Lions have had nearly all of their draft picks over the past 6 years and what has it done for them. By contrast, the Pats have had years with around 10 picks and also years with less than 6 picks. Having draft picks alone is like owning a fluctuating stock-if you don't make a perfect decision you end up with worthless crap.

Let's not act like draft picks, especially with this decision making team, are gold that we are about to trade for straw.

[jdlea]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

Let me restate that I am on now on the fence for this deal. I was against it initially but am warming to the possibility since we've not had a proven franchise QB since Theisman. Campbell may be that guy, but at this point short of a NFC Championship Game run this is his last season in DC.

Here's what some people don't seem to grasp when bemoaning giving up draft picks. This trade isn't about the 2009 Redskins, it's about the Redskins for the next 10 years. Of course the argument can be made that we'd be 'wasting valuable picks' for one player that may not represent a dramatic upgrade from what we already have. The logic however behind making this move has to be that our FO believes Cutler is a sure fire, once in a decade type of player and they aren't going to be able to get one like him elsewhere.

Let's face it, even teams that draft well there's still about a 35% chance your picks will be busts. At #13 we'd be looking at LDE, LB and OL in that order. What happened the last time we drafted a DE in the 1st round-Kennard Lang. Last time we drafted a LB-Lavar Arrington. Last time we drafted a OL-Chris Samuels. We hit on 33% of those picks. Cutler is already an established player, there's not a 67% chance he fails now.

There were probably a ton of Vikings fans thinking this same thing when they traded for Herschel Walker.

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by jdlea

There were probably a ton of Vikings fans thinking this same thing when they traded for Herschel Walker.

You may be right, but that's grapes and grapefruits. That was universally panned as a horrible deal. Walker was never a good NFL player, never was a franchise back and aside from at UGA never showed any signs he would be one.

The flip side is how excited were we when we got the Saints entire draft for Ricky Williams? How did that work out for us?