New Orleans Saints/Washington Redskins: Bounty Hunters

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by Monkeydad

I heard it on Limbaugh's show over lunch. You have to hear the audio, it's disgusting. You absolutely won't believe you're hearing what you are.

There's telling your guys to play hard and hit their star players hard, then there's what Gregg did. He named specific players and gave very specific instructions on how to take them out. He mentioned Crabtree and after calling him some profane names, instructed his players to aim for and tear his outside ACL. He mentioned that Kyle Williams (the fumbling punt returner) and said he's coming off a concussion and to hit him in the head to test it his doctors. Alex Smith...hit him in the head. Frank Gore, "Kill his head". Vernon Davis, it was either his ankles or knees.

It was sick to listen to. He researched the opposition's injuries and have specific instructions on how to hit them to severely injury them. Not even instructions, but orders.


What really disturbs me...I was among the vocal WP members and Skins fans who wanted him to be our HC after Gibbs. Don't lie, the majority of us wanted him to take over the team. Just knowing this guy was even on our staff once...ugh.

He's just trying to get his guys fired up. Did he go over the top? Yeah. I've heard a few former players come out and comment today, and they basically said..."no big deal, this kind of talk goes on all the time"...No big deal imo.

[Longtimefan]

Originally Posted by Monkeydad

I heard it on Limbaugh's show over lunch. You have to hear the audio, it's disgusting. You absolutely won't believe you're hearing what you are.

There's telling your guys to play hard and hit their star players hard, then there's what Gregg did. He named specific players and gave very specific instructions on how to take them out. He mentioned Crabtree and after calling him some profane names, instructed his players to aim for and tear his outside ACL. He mentioned that Kyle Williams (the fumbling punt returner) and said he's coming off a concussion and to hit him in the head to test it his doctors. Alex Smith...hit him in the head. Frank Gore, "Kill his head". Vernon Davis, it was either his ankles or knees.

It was sick to listen to. He researched the opposition's injuries and have specific instructions on how to hit them to severely injury them. Not even instructions, but orders.


What really disturbs me...I was among the vocal WP members and Skins fans who wanted him to be our HC after Gibbs. Don't lie, the majority of us wanted him to take over the team. Just knowing this guy was even on our staff once...ugh.

The United States of Football

[jamf]

I think it's another issue blown out of proportion by Goodell.
I believe this goes on with every team.
Maybe it isn't direct as what GW is doing for the Saints but it is happening on all team.
After the NFC Championship game, Devin Thomas publicly said that he knew Kyle Williams ( the guy who fumbled the game away) had concussions in the past and was trying to knock him out of the game.

[Giantone]

Originally Posted by jamf

After the NFC Championship game, Devin Thomas publicly said that he knew Kyle Williams ( the guy who fumbled the game away) had concussions in the past and was trying to knock him out of the game.

I didn't know who said it ,I do know the film maker who filmed the Saints said something about it.Let's not forget either that the Saints were told to stop ....more than once and ignored it,big difference.

[Dirtbag59]

I don't get why the NFL doesn't adopt the NHL's injury policy in that teams are not forced to disclose injuries. Rather they just say upper or lower body to get the media something to work with.

I doubt Gregg Williams is the only active coach to explicitly target players with ailments.

There seems to be a misconception though that fans are bothered by the profanity. I've seen it on Twitter with a few former NFL players. I think it's safe to say that people are use to it especially if they've seen hard knocks. It's clear that the mention of specific injuries and the plan to target them is whats causing the utter sense of shock.

[sportscurmudgeon]

Originally Posted by Dirtbag59

I don't get why the NFL doesn't adopt the NHL's injury policy in that teams are not forced to disclose injuries. Rather they just say upper or lower body to get the media something to work with.

I doubt Gregg Williams is the only active coach to explicitly target players with ailments.

There seems to be a misconception though that fans are bothered by the profanity. I've seen it on Twitter with a few former NFL players. I think it's safe to say that people are use to it especially if they've seen hard knocks. It's clear that the mention of specific injuries and the plan to target them is whats causing the utter sense of shock.

The fact - - or the belief - - that other teams do something similar to what we now KNOW the Saints were doing does not make what the Saints did right. Nor would it make what other teams similarly do right.

Lots of folks are arrested and convicted every year for DUI. That does not make it OK for you to drive under the influence.

[Chico23231]

Originally Posted by sportscurmudgeon

The fact - - or the belief - - that other teams do something similar to what we now KNOW the Saints were doing does not make what the Saints did right. Nor would it make what other teams similarly do right.

Lots of folks are arrested and convicted every year for DUI. That does not make it OK for you to drive under the influence.

i agree, but it says its an unfortunate social norm. Hitting people to inflict pain is a norm in football, the intent to injury?...could be argued.

The Ravens put a bounty on Hines Ward and Rashard Mendenhall - Shutdown Corner - NFL Blog - Yahoo! Sports

People remember this? Yes it happens on other teams. Direct from the article: Suggs acknowledged recently on the syndicated sports radio talk show "2 Live Stews" that the Ravens had a bounty on Mendenhall and on Ward.

Remember when Ray Lewis taking out Reshard Mendenhall?: "The linebacker, however, wasn't the only Raven boasting about the season-ending hit on Mendenhall. The guy who delivered the knockout blow, Ray Lewis, told Sports Illustrated that after the play he wasn't calling for medical help for Mendenhall, he was bragging that the first-round pick was "done". "

To say this hasnt happened before or is not praticed on other teams is head-in-the-ground foolish

Not that i agree with any of this, but like ive stated before...similar type of things happens on every level

[MTK]

No problem with the foul language, but talking about hitting Gore in the head, hitting him in the head while in the pile, etc., and taking out a guy's ACL? Way over the line. I honestly don't think the guy should ever coach in the league again.

Michael Irvin “almost threw up” when he heard Gregg Williams speech | ProFootballTalk

49ers’ Whitner thinks Williams’ actions were “really disgusting” | ProFootballTalk

Yeah going after guys when you know they are hurting is nothing new. But when you tie in the fact that bounties were involved, it makes it a whole new game.

This BS about everyone is doing it is just that, BS.

[jamf]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

No problem with the foul language, but talking about hitting Gore in the head, hitting him in the head while in the pile, etc., and taking out a guy's ACL? Way over the line. I honestly don't think the guy should ever coach in the league again.

Yeah going after guys when you know they are hurting is nothing new. But when you tie in the fact that bounties were involved, it makes it a whole new game.

This BS about everyone is doing it is just that, BS.

I agree that deliberately taking out a guys knee or deliberately trying to concuss(helmet to helmet hit) a player is way out of line.

Testing a guy who is coming back from an ACL injury or trying to knock the crap out of a guy with concussion problems is fair game to me.

People are calling for GW to be banned for life but has anyone studied actual game film to see if the Saints tried to take out Crabtrees ACL or have film of a helmet to helmet hit on Kyle Williams?
Anyone interview those guys and ask them what they thought of the Saints play? What about the other Saints Opponents last year?

I think the tape shows GW going over the line trying to get his guys hyped and motivated for the game. All 26 defensive players know how to play the game and wouldn't intentionally risk a guys career on a cheep shot.

Guys like Darren Sharper and London Fletcher have said that GW is one of the best coaches they have ever played for. If GW was really after ending guys seasons/careers, I doubt a standup guy like Fletcher would feel that way about him.

Trying to knock a guy out is a part of the game whether you like it or not.



What was everyones initial reaction to Lavar Arrington Taking out Aikman?
Were you saddened that Troy was knocked out of the game and ultimately career?
Do you think Lavar was running over to hopefully get a nice textbook wrapup tackle?



To be honest, I am waiting for Shanahan to be banned for teaching cut blocking. The only thing that tore up more knees than Cut blocking is the old astro turf at Veterans Stadium.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by jamf

I agree that deliberately taking out a guys knee or deliberately trying to concuss(helmet to helmet hit) a player is way out of line.

Testing a guy who is coming back from an ACL injury or trying to knock the crap out of a guy with concussion problems is fair game to me.

People are calling for GW to be banned for life but has anyone studied actual game film to see if the Saints tried to take out Crabtrees ACL or have film of a helmet to helmet hit on Kyle Williams?
Anyone interview those guys and ask them what they thought of the Saints play? What about the other Saints Opponents last year?

I think the tape shows GW going over the line trying to get his guys hyped and motivated for the game. All 26 defensive players know how to play the game and wouldn't intentionally risk a guys career on a cheep shot.

Guys like Darren Sharper and London Fletcher have said that GW is one of the best coaches they have ever played for. If GW was really after ending guys seasons/careers, I doubt a standup guy like Fletcher would feel that way about him.

Trying to knock a guy out is a part of the game whether you like it or not.



What was everyones initial reaction to Lavar Arrington Taking out Aikman?
Were you saddened that Troy was knocked out of the game and ultimately career?
Do you think Lavar was running over to hopefully get a nice textbook wrapup tackle?



To be honest, I am waiting for Shanahan to be banned for teaching cut blocking. The only thing that tore up more knees than Cut blocking is the old astro turf at Veterans Stadium.

I though GW went a little overboard with the ACL comments. But it is legal to hit someone on the knee. The stuff about Gore was just talk. I highly doubt any of the Saints players went head hunting cause the fines are way too severe. If a player is hurt and decides to go out on the field then it IS FAIR GAME. Romo had rib issues and D. Hall said he was going to hit him in the ribs. Sorry but that's football.

Goodell is just the owners bitch. He doesn't give a damn about the players. His loyalty is with the owners and that's why he's so obsessed about all the head injuries....cause of all the lawsuits. Which in turn is why we see so many BS calls every week. It's not the refs, it's the league going overboard trying to make it flag football. GW is going to be the scapegoat but I hope he does get a chance to coach in the NFL again. Everyone deserves a 2nd chance.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

I though GW went a little overboard with the ACL comments. But it is legal to hit someone on the knee. The stuff about Gore was just talk. I highly doubt any of the Saints players went head hunting cause the fines are way too severe. If a player is hurt and decides to go out on the field then it IS FAIR GAME. Romo had rib issues and D. Hall said he was going to hit him in the ribs. Sorry but that's football.

Goodell is just the owners bitch. He doesn't give a damn about the players. His loyalty is with the owners and that's why he's so obsessed about all the head injuries....cause of all the lawsuits. Which in turn is why we see so many BS calls every week. It's not the refs, it's the league going overboard trying to make it flag football. GW is going to be the scapegoat but I hope he does get a chance to coach in the NFL again. Everyone deserves a 2nd chance.

Well you know it was the NFLPA, not the owners, who were making player safety and concussion awareness such a key part of negotiations for a new CBA last year.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Well you know it was the NFLPA, not the owners, who were making player safety and concussion awareness such a key part of negotiations for a new CBA last year.

Yes but Goodell and the front office are the enforcers. They're the ones handing down the ridiculous fines, suspensions and so on.

[mooby]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

I though GW went a little overboard with the ACL comments. But it is legal to hit someone on the knee. The stuff about Gore was just talk. I highly doubt any of the Saints players went head hunting cause the fines are way too severe. If a player is hurt and decides to go out on the field then it IS FAIR GAME. Romo had rib issues and D. Hall said he was going to hit him in the ribs. Sorry but that's football.

Goodell is just the owners bitch. He doesn't give a damn about the players. His loyalty is with the owners and that's why he's so obsessed about all the head injuries....cause of all the lawsuits. Which in turn is why we see so many BS calls every week. It's not the refs, it's the league going overboard trying to make it flag football. GW is going to be the scapegoat but I hope he does get a chance to coach in the NFL again. Everyone deserves a 2nd chance.

By my count it would be his 4th chance. The Rog gave him multiple opportunities to shut it down and he didn't.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by mooby

By my count it would be his 4th chance. The Rog gave him multiple opportunities to shut it down and he didn't.

Exactly.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by mooby

By my count it would be his 4th chance. The Rog gave him multiple opportunities to shut it down and he didn't.

I think he should be allowed to coach again once he serves his time away. Vick lied to Goodell and what he did was far worse IMO.