The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0

[FrenchSkin]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

OK I can get on board with this clarification. I would call it very very very very slim. Like not at all likely. Like, don't get your hopes up in any meaningful way, that kind of likely.

But if you want to talk about it for shits and giggles then fine. I'm more interested in thinking through the realities, personally.

As for your comment on his competition, I agree. The availability of Bradford and Bridgewater, not to mention possibilities of Alex Smith, definitely muddies things for Cousins. But ultimately, Cousins is the cream of the crop so I think someone is likely to lock onto him with a high dollar offer. We're starting to see believable rumblings coming from the top beat reporter covering the Broncos that they're all in on him, even going so far as to describe how they'd clear the space (Talib) to make it happen.

I think the availability of Bradford, Bridgewater and others is plenty of reason for us to make a strong but reasonable offer and let the chips fall where they may. I don't think I'd personally support signing Cousins to a $27M per year deal when Teddy BDG might be had for $8M less.

From 13:50 to 24:30, Cooley breaks down film on Teddy BDG

http://cdn.stationcaster.com/station...1517327971.mp3

He doesn't like him a lot. Good legs, accurate on short and medium balls, but inaccurate on deep balls, bad pocket passer, bad eyes, tends to escape the pocket too quickly when his first read isn't available, doesn't read nor react to pressure efficiently.
Cooley sees him as a 2 to 3 years project at best, not a year 1 legitimate starter.

But, he only played one full season and as you said he'd be pretty cheap, so I still doesn't hate the idea.

Him or Alex Smith and a 4-5th round QB pick behind is fine by me.
Smith would be more expensive but I think he's a bit underrated.

[metalskins]

Originally Posted by FrenchSkin

From 13:50 to 24:30, Cooley breaks down film on Teddy BDG

http://cdn.stationcaster.com/station...1517327971.mp3

He doesn't like him a lot. Good legs, accurate on short and medium balls, but inaccurate on deep balls, bad pocket passer, bad eyes, tends to escape the pocket too quickly when his first read isn't available, doesn't read nor react to pressure efficiently.
Cooley sees him as a 2 to 3 years project at best, not a year 1 legitimate starter.

But, he only played one full season and as you said he'd be pretty cheap, so I still doesn't hate the idea.

Him or Alex Smith and a 4-5th round QB pick behind is fine by me.
Smith would be more expensive but I think he's a bit underrated.

I honestly believe no matter the free agent, the team that signs him also drafts a QB.

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by Chico23231

and that's my issue...I don't know all the time...what's allowed and what's not.

First and foremost: Now if we don't want Cousins as a QB and don't offer a deal, then let him walk...but this would be the most epically poor free handling of a QB of all time. You let an asset walk at all time high value with zero in return? lol, wow...historically bad business decision. What was the point to bring him back last year with that final deal offered? poor...this is why I state I have zero faith in the decision makers.

How to get Cousins franchise tag traded:

I think you get Cousins team together asap..or when its allowed. And make him a big boy offer....Because we do want him to be our QB, right? If we make him an offer that is legit (top 1 or 2 paid QB in the league) and he hesitates, rejects it or simply says I don't want to be here...then its not about the money then clearly its about him wanting to leave. I would explain time invested and the money we have paid to him the last couple years as part of that commitment. Let him know we will allow him to negotiate with team he wants and the franchise tag applies as compensation. Allow him to negotiate a deal and we can work out compensation according to tag rules. But be firm with him...once we offered a great deal and you say no, we have officially moved on at the QB spot.

I think 'war game' stuff...you can point to San Fran moving on Jimmy G where teams simply moved on from Cousins as an option. If we wants to play the "well, I want to stay now because of the tag" after stating he wanted to leave...Point to the Josh Norman situation where Carolina released him when everyone had spent all their big bucks elsewhere late in summer. Teams aren't going to wait for Cousins, look at the draft...I guarantee 5 QBs being draft first round. Teams will not wait, they are moving on.

I would look at this as a joint venture, tell Cousins we want the best for you and we want fair compensation. Work together to quickly get it done.

Franchise QB don't hit the market very often, I would imagine 5-7 teams would line up immediately and have serious contracts prepared.

So to be clear, you're saying make your best offer, and if he says no then slap the $34M franchise tag on him, and hold onto him as long as possible to make a trade?

What if he signs the $34M the second you put the tag on him, as he's done the past two years? It's a guaranteed contract at that point. You can't release him at that point. The second he signs it you lose complete control. He gets 100% control over whether he wants to negotiate a trade with other teams or whether he wants to collect $34M from you.

To say nothing of what carrying a $34M QB does to your cap when free agency opens on March 6. It's a non starter.

We really need to brush up on what the franchise tag means, in terms of cap space, in terms of what happens when it's signed, in terms of deadlines, all of that. There seems to be so much misunderstanding that you guys are coming up with cockamamie schemes to extract value for him, but you'd actually put the Redskins even further behind the 8 ball.

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by FrenchSkin

From 13:50 to 24:30, Cooley breaks down film on Teddy BDG

http://cdn.stationcaster.com/station...1517327971.mp3

He doesn't like him a lot. Good legs, accurate on short and medium balls, but inaccurate on deep balls, bad pocket passer, bad eyes, tends to escape the pocket too quickly when his first read isn't available, doesn't read nor react to pressure efficiently.
Cooley sees him as a 2 to 3 years project at best, not a year 1 legitimate starter.

But, he only played one full season and as you said he'd be pretty cheap, so I still doesn't hate the idea.

Him or Alex Smith and a 4-5th round QB pick behind is fine by me.
Smith would be more expensive but I think he's a bit underrated.

Yeah I'm not necessarily sold on Teddy, I just like saying Teddy BDG.

I'd be worried about how he bounces back from the knee.

[Chico23231]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

So to be clear, you're saying make your best offer, and if he says no then slap the $34M franchise tag on him, and hold onto him as long as possible to make a trade?

What if he signs the $34M the second you put the tag on him, as he's done the past two years? It's a guaranteed contract at that point. You can't release him at that point. The second he signs it you lose complete control. He gets 100% control over whether he wants to negotiate a trade with other teams or whether he wants to collect $34M from you.

To say nothing of what carrying a $34M QB does to your cap when free agency opens on March 6. It's a non starter.

We really need to brush up on what the franchise tag means, in terms of cap space, in terms of what happens when it's signed, in terms of deadlines, all of that. There seems to be so much misunderstanding that you guys are coming up with cockamamie schemes to extract value for him, but you'd actually put the Redskins even further behind the 8 ball.

Redskins put the Redskins further behind the 8 ball...hence my original thought to why unlikely. Its pattern unfortunately.

[FrenchSkin]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

Yeah I'm not necessarily sold on Teddy, I just like saying Teddy BDG.

I'd be worried about how he bounces back from the knee.

I'd sure be more excited with him at a cheap price and a lot of cap space to build around him (and the defense) than with Colt McCoy (at any price) or Cousins tagged at 34M...
And from what I understand there is no plug and play QB prospect in this year draft. At least not where we pick and I don't want us breaking the bank on a toss up again.

So BDG, Bradford, Smith and a late pick is fine. But the cheaper the QB, the more space to build the team...

It's strange, I want Cousins here, but if he leaves, I don't us to spend too much on an average FA. Just pick an ok starter and build the team.

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by Chico23231

Redskins put the Redskins further behind the 8 ball...hence my original thought to why unlikely. Its pattern unfortunately.

That's a fair observation, and I agree they've been morons, but that's ultimately unhelpful on formulating the best go-forward path from here.

Hopefully through this thought exercise it's now apparent to everyone that trading Cousins somehow is extraordinarily unlikely. Trying to put yourself in position to do so (applying the tag) puts you at enormous risk. At worst, he signs the $34M deal and the money's guaranteed, and you're back in this position next year. At best, he plays along and agrees to help you find a trade partner, but does so during the first few weeks of free agency, meantime occupying $34M of your cap space which you then can't use in free agency.

You have to have it resolved by March 6 or let him go. That's our reality.

[WillH]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

Because New England was smart about managing their leverage. They recognized that their last chance to trade Jimmy G was at the trade deadline. If he was still a Patriot at the end of the season, their only route for attempting to trade him would have been to apply a tag. But that would have been a huge risk, because what if he signed the deal?

Basically they foresaw the situation we're now in with Cousins, and they avoided it by getting what they could when they had their last chance.

But to be fair, they could afford to trade him midseason too, since Brady was their starter. We didn't have that luxury with Cousins, he's our starter.

Now though, with Cousins a pending free agent, teams know they don't have to trade a 2nd rounder for him. Why? War game it with me:

- If you transition tag him for $28M, you don't actually give yourself any leverage. All it takes is for Cousins to sign an offer sheet with a team, then your only threat to retain him is to match it. And if we haven't been serious about paying $27M per season yet, why would we match one that has that (or more)? Our position is as transparent as can be - teams will know that all they have to do is structure a contract high enough, and we won't match.

- If you franchise tag him for $34M then you maintain leverage. You can give him permission to work out a deal with other teams, sure. But we've been down this road, you know what he'll do. He'll sign it and play under the tag for $34M. Maybe, as you say, he'll be more interested in getting settled long term and thus want to work a deal to get away. But can you risk that? Because remember, until a trade is struck, he sits there occupying $34M in cap space, in March, at the beginning of free agency when you could really use the cap space to do other things. So you'd be entering free agency with a great deal of uncertainty at QB, unable to make any long term plans, unable to go out to sign defensive upgrades, and possibly missing out on the other QB options while you wait for the Cousins situation to resolve itself.

It's not going to happen. The Redskins know all the leverage sits with Cousins, and until the situation resolves itself they have no ability to form a long term plan. I'd submit you can't tag him, knowing there's a distinct possibility he'll sign and play for $34M. If you do, you're risking a great deal just to try to acquire a bit more than what you'd get if you just let him walk (a 3rd rounder).

Hmmm... I think the argument about cap space during free agency is a good one. They would still have 20mil+ in space and they can restructure and release a few players, but I do think you're right that they would be hampered. I'll have to think a bit that some.

BTW... letting him go would be bring a conditional 3rd next year right? That's much less value than a higher 3rd this year FWIW.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

[mredskins]

Its just funny how to me Chip Kelley destroyed the Eagles and some how they are in the SB a few years later. Yet we keep just spinning like a top in average and below average range. Frustrating.

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by mredskins

Its just funny how to me Chip Kelley destroyed the Eagles and some how they are in the SB a few years later. Yet we keep just spinning like a top in average and below average range. Frustrating.

* somehow aka hired a new coach and drafted a stud QB

The Eagles make the case for change, not for continuity.

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by WillH

Hmmm... I think the argument about cap space during free agency is a good one. They would still have 20mil+ in space and they can restructure and release a few players, but I do think you're right that they would be hampered. I'll have to think a bit that some.

BTW... letting him go would be bring a conditional 3rd next year right? That's much less value than a higher 3rd this year FWIW.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

Not conditional. A guaranteed 3rd rounder as a compensatory selection. It would come at the end of the 3rd round in 2019.

[skinsfaninok]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

* somehow aka hired a new coach and drafted a stud QB

The Eagles make the case for change, not for continuity.

They struck gold with that duo, it happens look at LAR Goff is now a stud. Jay/Kirk has been really good too, the difference is the Eagles actually have a defense that they can rely on to get that QB the ball back.

[skinsfaninok]

Originally Posted by mredskins

Its just funny how to me Chip Kelley destroyed the Eagles and some how they are in the SB a few years later. Yet we keep just spinning like a top in average and below average range. Frustrating.

"they are set back years" Yeah that's why there is no more FUTURE in the NFL, It's a win now league and teams you dont think can win can (browns dont count). That is why the NFL Playoffs are so different every yr.

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by skinsfaninok

They struck gold with that duo, it happens look at LAR Goff is now a stud. Jay/Kirk has been really good too, the difference is the Eagles actually have a defense that they can rely on to get that QB the ball back.

That's true about the defense, but saying Jay/Kirk is as good as Doug/Carson is a false equivalency. Wentz threw 33 TDs in 13 games because he extends and makes plays Kirk can't.

But I get it. That's the case for continuity - if only we could develop a defense to pair with our strong offense.

That's exactly why you can't put a tag on Cousins and have him take up $34M of space during that first week of free agency. We need to acquire a piece or two to help with that defensive build.

[skinsfaninok]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

That's true about the defense, but saying Jay/Kirk is as good as Doug/Carson is a false equivalency. Wentz threw 33 TDs in 13 games because he extends and makes plays Kirk can't.

But I get it. That's the case for continuity - if only we could develop a defense to pair with our strong offense.

That's exactly why you can't put a tag on Cousins and have him take up $34M of space during that first week of free agency. We need to acquire a piece or two to help with that defensive build.

Yep which is why we as fans get so tired of the BS, finally have a QB that can put up top 10 results and he's about to walk out the door. So now what? We start from scratch again and HOPE we get lucky with the QB/HC combo again, or... we will go back to JZ/JC and be 6-10 for the next 4 years