Mark Sanchez at 13th?

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

BHA, do you think Sanchez will be "Franchise" great, or great because he is the best in this draft?
Another way to phrase it, If Sanchez had taken Carrol's supposed advice and stayed in till next year, would you be advocating wait for him next year, or get the next best one after Stafford?
I think you want a Superstar qb so bad, and you know in your heart JC isn't it, that you are willing to take just about any qb out there and proclaim him the next "Franchise".

My answers to my questions:
Sanchez is not a sure hit franchise player.
If he came out next year he might be the 4th best behind Tebow and others.

Further, he knows that, and knows that this year he can get top 10 money and like a smart business man, he is catching the cash now.

Let's not get carried away. He may or may not be behind Bradford and McCoy but no way is he behind Tebow.

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

Let's not get carried away. He may or may not be behind Bradford and McCoy but no way is he behind Tebow.

really? Bradford and Tebow both have Heisman's, Tebow had 2 successive very good/outstanding years. Sanchez did what? Led a team that is perennially a powerhouse. I swear my mind is stuck on one argument. USC built the team, then plugged Sanchez in. Exactly what I want the Redskins to do.

[wilsowilso]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

really? Bradford and Tebow both have Heisman's, Tebow had 2 successive very good/outstanding years. Sanchez did what? Led a team that is perennially a powerhouse. I swear my mind is stuck on one argument. USC built the team, then plugged Sanchez in. Exactly what I want the Redskins to do.

Winning the Heisman trophy has little to no value as an indicator for NFL success as a quarterback.

There have been Heisman trophy winning quarterbacks that went undrafted.

I doubt there is a single GM in the NFL that takes Tebow over Sanchez if Tebow had declared for this draft.

I don't want Sanchez by the way, but he has what the NFL is looking for with regards to him deserving to be a top ten pick.

[Son Of Man]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

really? Bradford and Tebow both have Heisman's, Tebow had 2 successive very good/outstanding years. Sanchez did what? Led a team that is perennially a powerhouse. I swear my mind is stuck on one argument. USC built the team, then plugged Sanchez in. Exactly what I want the Redskins to do.

Is that why Tebow was projected as a 4th round pick...at H-Back?

Eric Crouch won a Heisman.

[GMScud]

Originally Posted by Son Of Man

Is that why Tebow was projected as a 4th round pick...at H-Back?

Eric Crouch won a Heisman.

As a huge Gator fan, I've been biting my tounge on the Tebow comments. But don't even think of comparing him to Eric Crouch. Tebow has better numbers, a better arm, and all of his intangibles are off the charts. He's 6-3, 240, and very mobile. Not to mention he can make every throw, and if you watched him in the SEC Championship game or the title game, dude can thread the needle when he needs to. After this coming season, he will leave UF as one of, if not the most accomplished college QUARTERBACK of all time. He'll be a pro QB, and I have a feeling he'll be a good one.

I guarantee you he is a first round pick in 2010. As a QB. As GTripp said, there's no way every team passes on him.

Jon Gruden knows a thing or two about QBs. Here's his take on Super T during an interview:

Q: Most people are dismissing Tebow as a quarterback in the NFL.

Gruden: "Tim Tebow is so interesting to me. He’s like Brandon Jacobs playing quarterback. He’s 250 pounds. He’s the strongest human being who’s ever played the position. Ever. He will kick the living [expletive] out of a defensive lineman. He’ll fight anybody. He is rare. Tebow is the kind of guy who could revolutionize the game. He’s the ‘wildcat’ who can throw. Most of the teams that have the wildcat back there, it’s Ronnie Brown, it’s Jerious Norwood, it’s whoever you want to say it is. This guy here is 250 pounds of concrete cyanide, man. And he can throw. He throws well enough at any level to play quarterback.”

“He can and will play quarterback in the NFL. When he was a high school senior, they played Armwood in the state championship game. I have tape. He has an 80-yard touchdown run that put them in the lead. When it flipped around, and Armwood had the ball, what position do you think Tebow was playing? He was playing nose guard — and he disrupted about 10 plays. This guy is totally different. He’s got Rich Gannon, Drew Brees, that kind of makeup as a team guy. What he said after the Ole Miss game, I said, ‘That’s my favorite football player I’ve ever seen in my whole life.’ I said, ‘I want Florida to win every game that kid plays from now on.’”

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by Son Of Man

Is that why Tebow was projected as a 4th round pick...at H-Back?

Eric Crouch won a Heisman.

I thought I had read the pecking order for this year's draft at the end of the college season, and Sanchez was behind all three. but I could not find it via google. So if i was wrong i is very truly sorry.

I still would say Sanchez would be number 3 at the best and that's not worth any more than this year's number 13. Especially if, as the JC bashing crowd says, we don't improve and end up with the same or worse record. Then we might as well wait till next year and let the newest head coach select the newest franchise quarterback with all the bank books DS can throw at him.

But with this year's draft lets build for this years team.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

really? Bradford and Tebow both have Heisman's, Tebow had 2 successive very good/outstanding years. Sanchez did what? Led a team that is perennially a powerhouse. I swear my mind is stuck on one argument. USC built the team, then plugged Sanchez in. Exactly what I want the Redskins to do.

Didn't Eric Crotch win the Heisman?? That means nothing. Tebow simply doesn't have the passing/pocket skills to make it as QB in the NFL.

[BigHairedAristocrat]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Obviously, that's indicitive of an inconsistent value system. Empircially, whether you like him or not, Jason Campbell is by far the best option for the short term health and possibly long term health of the franchise. Any move that pushes him to the side of the road hurts the team in the short term for sure, and likely the long term as well. The fact that you've been a proponent of not just one, but pretty much all ideas that do this makes it plain as day to me that you are less concerned about the success of this team the next two years than you are that we go at it with someone else than Campbell.

Basically once you perceive the VERY WORST POSSIBLE OUTCOME FOR ALL THINGS CAMPBELL'S FUTURE, your position becomes defensable. And by the same token, you've pretty much wished the worst on the team you choose to root for. I can't understand how you and your buddies can sit around pontificating about how much better things will be when we get rid of JC, and that's not a philosophical difference.

Its not that i feel any of my arguments have been proven wrong and i'm grasping at straws - its just that none of my previous arguments have done anything to sway you and there's no sense repeating the same arguments over and over again. I don't hate Campbell - I just dont think he's a good fit here and i am 100% certain he will be gone after this season at the latest - so why not move him now and get some value for him if we can? I'd rather get something for him now, than nothing for him later.

As to my friends - not a single one of them is a redskins fan. Most of them are lifelong Steelers, Colts, Patriots, and Giants fans and we usually watch games at sports bars together or someones house. Alot of them are much older than me and i trust their input - not a one of them that ive talked tothinks Campbell will succeed in this offense, which agrees with what the paid professionals have been saying since we brought Zorn here.

As far as me wishing the worst for the team i root for, its quite the opposite. This franchise has been mediocre since Snyder took over and that will never ever change with Campbell at the helm - he is a guy that doesnt make many mistakes, thats it. He's too timid to ever become great. Campbell ensures this team stays mediocre. Going 9-7 or 10-6 and playing in the wild card game once every few years doesnt satisfy me. If it does you, then you should hang out with fans of consistently good teams and you'll realize what youre missing out on - continued success.

I'd rather risk taking a step back in 2009, have a franchise QB, and then build around him for 10-15 years than continue to hover around 8-8 for that same timespan. You can't get ahead in this game without taking a few chances.

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

Its not that i feel any of my arguments have been proven wrong and i'm grasping at straws - its just that none of my previous arguments have done anything to sway you and there's no sense repeating the same arguments over and over again. I don't hate Campbell - I just dont think he's a good fit here and i am 100% certain he will be gone after this season at the latest - so why not move him now and get some value for him if we can? I'd rather get something for him now, than nothing for him later.

As to my friends - not a single one of them is a redskins fan. Most of them are lifelong Steelers, Colts, Patriots, and Giants fans and we usually watch games at sports bars together or someones house. Alot of them are much older than me and i trust their input - not a one of them that ive talked tothinks Campbell will succeed in this offense, which agrees with what the paid professionals have been saying since we brought Zorn here.

As far as me wishing the worst for the team i root for, its quite the opposite. This franchise has been mediocre since Snyder took over and that will never ever change with Campbell at the helm - he is a guy that doesnt make many mistakes, thats it. He's too timid to ever become great. Campbell ensures this team stays mediocre. Going 9-7 or 10-6 and playing in the wild card game once every few years doesnt satisfy me. If it does you, then you should hang out with fans of consistently good teams and you'll realize what youre missing out on - continued success.

I'd rather risk taking a step back in 2009, have a franchise QB, and then build around him for 10-15 years than continue to hover around 8-8 for that same timespan. You can't get ahead in this game without taking a few chances.

I asked before, and I still wonder, can you give examples of where a team went and got the franchise qb, then built the rest of the team? I still think you build the team now, and IF JC doesn't work out, then everything is in place and you get your guy. But if you "get your guy" now, and then dump Zorn and JC as you imagine is going to happen, then you now have 2 qbs that the new coach didn't choose, and a new system. We have been down that road a couple times...

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

Its not that i feel any of my arguments have been proven wrong and i'm grasping at straws - its just that none of my previous arguments have done anything to sway you and there's no sense repeating the same arguments over and over again. I don't hate Campbell - I just dont think he's a good fit here and i am 100% certain he will be gone after this season at the latest - so why not move him now and get some value for him if we can? I'd rather get something for him now, than nothing for him later.

As to my friends - not a single one of them is a redskins fan. Most of them are lifelong Steelers, Colts, Patriots, and Giants fans and we usually watch games at sports bars together or someones house. Alot of them are much older than me and i trust their input - not a one of them that ive talked tothinks Campbell will succeed in this offense, which agrees with what the paid professionals have been saying since we brought Zorn here.

As far as me wishing the worst for the team i root for, its quite the opposite. This franchise has been mediocre since Snyder took over and that will never ever change with Campbell at the helm - he is a guy that doesnt make many mistakes, thats it. He's too timid to ever become great. Campbell ensures this team stays mediocre. Going 9-7 or 10-6 and playing in the wild card game once every few years doesnt satisfy me. If it does you, then you should hang out with fans of consistently good teams and you'll realize what youre missing out on - continued success.

I'd rather risk taking a step back in 2009, have a franchise QB, and then build around him for 10-15 years than continue to hover around 8-8 for that same timespan. You can't get ahead in this game without taking a few chances.

Okay, new question: should the Giants trade multiple first round picks to get up and land Sanchez? Their franchise QB isn't really even as good as Campbell is here right now. Plus, they seem to be a team that has most parts in place, at least talking OL (although they have depth issues).

Where is the threshold for a team to stop trying to improve their QB situation?

I only defer this question to you since you clearly consider yourself the authority on what it takes for a QB to be "great".

[Son Of Man]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Okay, new question: should the Giants trade multiple first round picks to get up and land Sanchez? Their franchise QB isn't really even as good as Campbell is here right now. Plus, they seem to be a team that has most parts in place, at least talking OL (although they have depth issues).

Where is the threshold for a team to stop trying to improve their QB situation?

I only defer this question to you since you clearly consider yourself the authority on what it takes for a QB to be "great".

Eli is better than JC.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Son Of Man

Eli is better than JC.

I think you could make that argument, although he won a SB doing exactly what BHA is critiquing Campbell for, but you'd have to admit they are on exactly the same tier.

But the point was, the Giants have yet to extend his contract. Should they be looking to trade up and get Sanchez? I'm wondering, because based on the value system that BHA and others have shown, the answer would seem like a resounding yes. But I don't hear any Giants fans or team reporters even suggesting this as a remote possibility.

[wilsowilso]

Originally Posted by Son Of Man

Eli is better than JC.

Have fun arguing with Tripp about quarterbacks.

He has the power of statistical vortex.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by wilsowilso

Have fun arguing with Tripp about quarterbacks.

He has the power of statistical vortex.

That's why they call me the Quarterback guru.

Actually, I called myself that, and then they rightfully made fun of me.

[Ruhskins]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

Its not that i feel any of my arguments have been proven wrong and i'm grasping at straws - its just that none of my previous arguments have done anything to sway you and there's no sense repeating the same arguments over and over again.

Your arguments have been proven wrong by a few people here (you just don't admit this). And you keep making the same arguments over and over again.

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

I don't hate Campbell

You want to get rid of Jason Campbell, so you hate him as the Redskins QB. Why are you so afraid of admitting this?

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

I just dont think he's a good fit here and i am 100% certain he will be gone after this season at the latest

Didn't you say you there's no sense in repeating the same argument over and over again? Well you just did here.

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

so why not move him now and get some value for him if we can? I'd rather get something for him now, than nothing for him later.

I think the team tried to do this (this is what makes me think your secretly Snyder).

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

As to my friends - not a single one of them is a redskins fan. Most of them are lifelong Steelers, Colts, Patriots, and Giants fans and we usually watch games at sports bars together or someones house. Alot of them are much older than me and i trust their input - not a one of them that ive talked tothinks Campbell will succeed in this offense, which agrees with what the paid professionals have been saying since we brought Zorn here.

See this is why I made the comment that you mention sources without mentioning them. Can you come up with 3 to 5 articles of paid professionals that have said Campbell won't succeed in Zorns offense? I think it would help your arguments if you did come up with them (I figure given how much you put into your posts, you wouldn't mind doing this).

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

This franchise has been mediocre since Snyder took over and that will never ever change with Campbell at the helm

Yeah, I think you hate Campbell.

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

This franchise has been mediocre since Snyder took over and that will never ever change with Campbell at the helm - he is a guy that doesnt make many mistakes, thats it. He's too timid to ever become great. Campbell ensures this team stays mediocre. Going 9-7 or 10-6 and playing in the wild card game once every few years doesnt satisfy me.

Didn't you get all riled up when I said that you think Jason Campbell is the only problem? Well I think this statement confirms that you think Jason Campbell is the only problem.

Well this was fun.