Brees and Rivers and the Market for Ramsey

[Hog1]

Originally Posted by irish

PR will not stay with the skins. Like I said back in August, Gibbs, for whatever reason, has no confidence in PR. And for his part, I think PR knows this and wants to move on and see if he can catch-on and become a starter. Gibbs drafted Campbell and MB is Gibbs' boy, PR is the odd man out. PR may end up being a good QB in the NFL but it wont be with the skins.

It's not a matter of Gibbs "not having confidence with PR". Gibbs would do what is necessary for the benefit of the team. He felt Brunell was a better fit this year. Obviously, he was correct. That does not mean PR has not improved, and could replace Brunell. Dude is 36! He may have to put Campbell away in the process. Like I said in an earlier post, it took SEVERAL seasons for Theismans to earn the job. I think your correct, PR will be an unhappy man, and will try to force a deal to leave.

[irish]

Originally Posted by Hog1

It's not a matter of Gibbs "not having confidence with PR". Gibbs would do what is necessary for the benefit of the team. He felt Brunell was a better fit this year. Obviously, he was correct. That does not mean PR has not improved, and could replace Brunell. Dude is 36! He may have to put Campbell away in the process. Like I said in an earlier post, it took SEVERAL seasons for Theismans to earn the job. I think your correct, PR will be an unhappy man, and will try to force a deal to leave.

Gibbs pulled PR in the 1st half of the 1st game of the season. PR had not had a chance to do anything good or bad. MB had done nothing last year and people wrote him off for dead but Gibbs believed (correctly) that MB could get the job done better than PR could. Had Gibbs believed PR could get the job done he would not have pulled PR in the 1st game.

If pulling someone (who Gibbs said all preseason was the starter) in the 1st half of the 1st game of the year and replacing him with someone who was a complete stiff the year before is not a lack of confidence, I dont know what is.

[Hog1]

[QUOTE=irish]Gibbs pulled PR in the 1st half of the 1st game of the season. PR had not had a chance to do anything good or bad. MB had done nothing last year and people wrote him off for dead but Gibbs believed (correctly) that MB could get the job done better than PR could. Had Gibbs believed PR could get the job done he would not have pulled PR in the 1st game.

If pulling someone (who Gibbs said all preseason was the starter) in the 1st half of the 1st game of the year and replacing him with someone who was a complete stiff the year before is not a lack of confidence, I dont know what is.[/QUOTE]

Your right, I was trying to be kind! Gibbs had no confidence at that time that PR could pull it off. Can anyone argue with the decision, and the results being enjoyed by the Skins?

[railcon56]

Originally Posted by Hog1

[If
Your right, I was trying to be kind! Gibbs had no confidence at that time that PR could pull it off. Can anyone argue with the decision, and the results being enjoyed by the Skins?

Damn do you really want that answered..it will be closed like every other anti brunell thread! It's best not to ask questions like that....... I said I would stay positive this week why cant everyone else..why do we need Brunell is better... ramsey cant do this.... why not have peace and just talk playoffs....

[Schneed10]

First, I doubt the Jets would trade Abraham for Ramsey. I think to get Abraham in a Ramsey deal, we'd have to throw in a pick of some sort. And I don't think that would be wise.

Secondly, the fact that Rivers and Brees are probably both off the market doesn't change much for Ramsey, in my eyes. I don't see a single team out there who thinks Ramsey is a clear-cut #1 QB. He's the kind of guy you bring in for insurance or as someone to compete for teh starting job. If he went to Miami he'd compete with Frerotte, who had a great finish to his season. If he went to NYJ he'd be insurance for Pennington. In Detroit he'd be competition for Harrington. In Houston, competition for Carr. New Orleans might be his best option, depending on what the Saints do with Todd Bouman. Seemed like Bouman was getting an audition to be the starter until the rookie #1 pick was ready to start. But Bouman was terrible, so maybe Ramsey ends up in that role.

But when you think about it, there is no team Ramsey can go to where he'll be THE GUY. I'm not sure a 2nd round pick is likely for a guy like that. Not when other journeyman QBs will be available in free agency. I personally think a 3rd rounder is the best we'll do. And that's fine with me actually, because I don't think Ramsey is going to be anything special at any point in his career.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

First, I doubt the Jets would trade Abraham for Ramsey. I think to get Abraham in a Ramsey deal, we'd have to throw in a pick of some sort. And I don't think that would be wise.

Secondly, the fact that Rivers and Brees are probably both off the market doesn't change much for Ramsey, in my eyes. I don't see a single team out there who thinks Ramsey is a clear-cut #1 QB. He's the kind of guy you bring in for insurance or as someone to compete for teh starting job. If he went to Miami he'd compete with Frerotte, who had a great finish to his season. If he went to NYJ he'd be insurance for Pennington. In Detroit he'd be competition for Harrington. In Houston, competition for Carr. New Orleans might be his best option, depending on what the Saints do with Todd Bouman. Seemed like Bouman was getting an audition to be the starter until the rookie #1 pick was ready to start. But Bouman was terrible, so maybe Ramsey ends up in that role.

But when you think about it, there is no team Ramsey can go to where he'll be THE GUY. I'm not sure a 2nd round pick is likely for a guy like that. Not when other journeyman QBs will be available in free agency. I personally think a 3rd rounder is the best we'll do. And that's fine with me actually, because I don't think Ramsey is going to be anything special at any point in his career.

What rookie #1 pick for the Saints are you talking about?

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by TAFKAS

What rookie #1 pick for the Saints are you talking about?

Leinart or Young, assuming they take one of them. Brooks is out the door.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

Leinart or Young, assuming they take one of them. Brooks is out the door.

Oh ok I thought you were talking about someone they already had on the roster.

And like you and Matty say I really can't see us getting a #1 pick for Ramsey straight up. If we do, then let us never, ever, ever again have a "We Need a General Manager" thread

[MTK]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

First, I doubt the Jets would trade Abraham for Ramsey. I think to get Abraham in a Ramsey deal, we'd have to throw in a pick of some sort. And I don't think that would be wise.

Secondly, the fact that Rivers and Brees are probably both off the market doesn't change much for Ramsey, in my eyes. I don't see a single team out there who thinks Ramsey is a clear-cut #1 QB. He's the kind of guy you bring in for insurance or as someone to compete for teh starting job. If he went to Miami he'd compete with Frerotte, who had a great finish to his season. If he went to NYJ he'd be insurance for Pennington. In Detroit he'd be competition for Harrington. In Houston, competition for Carr. New Orleans might be his best option, depending on what the Saints do with Todd Bouman. Seemed like Bouman was getting an audition to be the starter until the rookie #1 pick was ready to start. But Bouman was terrible, so maybe Ramsey ends up in that role.

But when you think about it, there is no team Ramsey can go to where he'll be THE GUY. I'm not sure a 2nd round pick is likely for a guy like that. Not when other journeyman QBs will be available in free agency. I personally think a 3rd rounder is the best we'll do. And that's fine with me actually, because I don't think Ramsey is going to be anything special at any point in his career.

Great post, I totally agree.

I definitely agree that teams aren't likely to see Ramsey as a guy you can bring in and just hand the job to. He's definitely a guy that will be brought in to compete for a job. And that kind of guy doesn't command a #1 pick. And I think we'd be extremely luck to get a #2.

[FRPLG]

I'd predict that Ramsey sticks around for one more year as the heir to Brunell. Then Ramsey will get a couple years to run the show while Campbell is the heir. It is not common in the league to do such because of the cap but this is how Gibbs always liked it before and if they can figure a reasonable way to justify the the cap numbers I would imagine that's Gibbs' version of the perfect situation.

[sportscurmudgeon]

Master4caster:

You neglected to mention a couple of QBs who started in their rookie years who seem to have done pretty well. I'm thinking of Peyton Manning and Donovan McNabb (not till about the 10th game of rookie season) here. Going back a bit further, Drew Bledsoe and Troy Aikman started as rookies. Bledsoe has been to a Super Bowl; Aikman has three rings and will be in the HoF later this year. Other names that come to mind are Terry Bradshaw and Fran Tarkenton; they worked out all right too.


The only way Ramsey stays here next year is if his contract is "cap friendly". In the final year of some rookie deals, the baloon payment makes the contract a burden; I don't know what Ramsey's deal calls for next year. I do know that unless Brunell suffers a major injury, Patrick Ramsey will not start another game in Washington. By the time Brunell is ready to hit the showers, Jason Campbell will be the heir to the throne.

[MTK]

Comparing how the two QBs looked all summer it's easy to see why Gibbs gave PR the quick hook when the opportunity presented itself. I don't know how we can even question the decision now considering how the season turned out.

10-6, playoffs, what more is there to say?

[irish]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Comparing how the two QBs looked all summer it's easy to see why Gibbs gave PR the quick hook when the opportunity presented itself. I don't know how we can even question the decision now considering how the season turned out.

10-6, playoffs, what more is there to say?

You are joking right? There was nobody on this site (or DC for that matter)that thought MB should be the starter and with Gibbs saying PR is the starter all anyone would say is Gibbs says he's the starter so he's the starter. What opportunity presented itself in the 1st half of the 1st game that was so obvious that PR could not get it done? There was none, Gibbs did not have confidence in PR and he had confidence in MB so MB went into the game. Its obvious now that Gibbs made the correct decision but in Sept it didnt appear so.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by irish

You are joking right? There was nobody on this site (or DC for that matter)that thought MB should be the starter and with Gibbs saying PR is the starter all anyone would say is Gibbs says he's the starter so he's the starter. What opportunity presented itself in the 1st half of the 1st game that was so obvious that PR could not get it done? There was none, Gibbs did not have confidence in PR and he had confidence in MB so MB went into the game. Its obvious now that Gibbs made the correct decision but in Sept it didnt appear so.

What is there to joke about?

PR looked shaky all preseason, and Brunell looked sharp. I don't see how that can be disputed.

Gibbs was obviously looking/hoping for Ramsey to seal the deal in the offseason, take take the job and run with it. Can you say he really did that?

Of course Gibbs didn't have much confidence in him, despite the fact the majority of fans supported Gibbs' claim that Ramsey was the starter, I guarantee you in the back of our minds we were all concerned given Ramsey's mediocre showing during the preseason.

I love how people make it seem like Ramsey was tearing it up during the 1st half of the Bears game. He threw a pick and fumbled twice, to Gibbs he had seen enough and couple that with his unimpressive offseason, he made the quick hook.

The opportunity that presented itself that I was referring to was when Ramsey went down, that was all Gibbs needed to get Brunell back in.

[Ade Jimoh Fan Club]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

PR looked shaky all preseason, and Brunell looked sharp. I don't see how that can be disputed.

Gibbs was obviously looking/hoping for Ramsey to seal the deal in the offseason, take take the job and run with it. Can you say he really did that?

I agree Matty. It's unbelievable how people on this site forget how INCONSISTENT and MEDIOCRE Ramsey is. He's had a few good games to give us false hope - sandwiched between a bunch of bad games.

He's a good QB and a good guy, but not the guy we want "for the future." We need to get whatever we can for him and move on. If he wants to take a pay cut and remain as a back-up - that's great! But not the starter.

I mean, he did OK in the Giants game, but that was actually a pretty sorry throw to Moss and an INCREDIBLE catch. Without that play, his numbers wouldn't look that great.

Let's trade Ramsey, and if Brunell calls it quits, then we go with Campbell. If he stinks it up then we find another option. RAMSEY AIN'T IT!