Maybe Vinny Cerrato isn't the Anti-Christ

[offiss]

Originally Posted by Sheriff Gonna Getcha

But Vinny isn't responsible for trading away picks. So if you don't like that strategy, your beef isn't with Vinny.

I look at our players on offense and I think he did a pretty good job of assembling talent. But, if you don't think the guys I list below are any good, please feel free to differ.

Jason Campbell - It's early, but he looks very promising
Clinton Portis - Need I say more
Ladell Betts - Excellent pick in the middle of the 2nd round
Rock Cartwright - He's not a starter, but he's excellent value for a 7th rounder.
Chris Cooley - Excellent pick, especially in the 3rd round
Santana Moss - Everyone thought we got screwed on the Coles trade, maybe not?
ARE - I simply love the guy, even if he's not posting 1,000 yard seasons
The entire O-line - Love em all.

I think we've got the talent on offense to be incredibly explosive if JC picks up his game and develops nicely.

I really don't like anyone who evaluates talent on our team, I know big surprise but I really don't think he has a whole lot of say about trades and draft picks, we all know that Campbell, and Portis, are Gibbs, and Gibbs alone.

And for the record I am not everyone, I was a big Moss guy.

Personally I believe the buck stops with Gibbs, do I believe Cerratto has any clue how to build a team? No! But Gibbs has final say no matter what kind of information any of these guy's feed him, so he is absolutly 100% accountable for talent evaluation, and if you can't evaluate established NFL talent which is almost all we deal with than you have no buisness handling personel.

As for Clinton Portis? I can say more, Stephen Jackson!

Rock who?

I believe Snyder drafted Betts?

Moss should have been a Skin from the start, although VC was gone when we drafted Gardner he said in an interview before we picked that Gardner was the guy we should draft.

Cooley, great pick, but don't forget we had to give up a 2nd rd pick the following season because we didn't have a #2 that season because of the Portis trade, so essentially that trade cost us 2 second rd picks, how nice would Stephen Jackson look in a Skins uniform right now? And would have cost a heck of a lot less, Not to mention the extra picks we would have kept if Bailey were to be traded for just draft picks, let's see we already know we would have had 2#2's plus in all likely hood at least an additional 1st and 2nd rd pick for Bailey and probably more than that. At least 4 draft picks in the first 2 rounds that's a lot of talent we gave up [if we drafted properly] for 1 player, I will never be in favor of that trade, it cost us way to much!

[Beemnseven]

Stephen Jackson? You're saying we should have passed on Sean Taylor and draft a guy who wasn't taken until pick #24?

[offiss]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

Stephen Jackson? You're saying we should have passed on Sean Taylor and draft a guy who wasn't taken until pick #24?

No, I was the first guy on this board to start yelling for Taylor, but with the picks we would have recieved from a trade of Bailey rather than a swap and one of our picks, we could have easily grabbed Jackson late in the round and probably have traded down with the #1 and then some to get him with what we would have recieved in return for Bailey. That's all if we have a clue on how to minipulate the draft, and the ability to evaluate college talent and how a player will transition to the pro game, which we don't have a clue unless it's a top 10 no brainer type pick, and we aren't overly brilliant in that dept. unless Rogers has a breakout year?

I would take Jackson in a heartbeat over Portis!

Watched america's game tonight on the 82' Skins, funny Gibbs didn't want Joey T. or Riggin's when he arrived, how wrong was he on that one?

[SouperMeister]

Originally Posted by ArtMonkDrillz

Vinny C needs to be fired. I mean if Gibbs wants to cook the dinner he should be in charge of buying the groceries.


Matty, what was that about the tuna?

Why do so many keep giving Gibbs a free pass on bad personnel decisions and questionable trades of future draft picks??? Gibbs is THE PRESIDENT OF FOOTBALL OPERATIONS. He has the FINAL say on all personnel decisions that have been done since he returned, including signing Brunell, Archuletta, trading future draft choices for Duckett and Lloyd. Not every decisions has been bad, but it has been Gibbs's mismanagement of mid-round draft choices that has cost the team valuable depth. That we only have a single pick on the first day, then nothing more until round 5 is a testament to that mismanagement.

[#56fanatic]

Originally Posted by skinsguy

There are plenty of very good picks we have gotten with the current administration. SGG has already named some very good examples. This FO is, overall, doing a much better job. I know a lot of you guys want perfection, but if you want an ever year winner, you're going to have to be patient.

thnk about it. of the players named before drafted by this FO since 2000. LaVar, Champ, Samuels, Jansen could not be placed on this administration. Casserly set us up with LaVar and Samuels, Jansen was all ready here. of the picks this FO has made, how many are starters, or play at all. Campbell, Rock, Taylor, Cooley,Smoot, I am probably forgetting a number of players, but my point is out of 7 years, 49 picks I dont think we have 10 to 15 players that have panned out, or stayed with the organization. Our team is made up of basically FA from other teams. and the ones we draft that are decent players, they are cast off for some reason. Whether Vinny is on the hook for most if not all of these issues is beside the point. Someone is letting him, Joe, GW, Mr. Saunders make these calls. Danny at some point has to wise up and put someone in charge. Any in charge totally. I give Danny credit for willing to pay the money and spend every dime to put players on the field, he is awesome in that regard. but at some point he has to step back and say this plan has not worked out. 7 to 8 years of this structure hasn't produced what we want, what the fans want and deserve for their loyalty to this team. the fact that we have the highest payroll year end year out, the highest dead cap figure every year, and one of the worst records in the NFL over the last 10 years should say something about the way they do things.

[Defensewins]

Originally Posted by #56fanatic

thnk about it. of the players named before drafted by this FO since 2000. LaVar, Champ, Samuels, Jansen could not be placed on this administration. Casserly set us up with LaVar and Samuels, Jansen was all ready here. of the picks this FO has made, how many are starters, or play at all. Campbell, Rock, Taylor, Cooley,Smoot, I am probably forgetting a number of players, but my point is out of 7 years, 49 picks I dont think we have 10 to 15 players that have panned out, or stayed with the organization. Our team is made up of basically FA from other teams. and the ones we draft that are decent players, they are cast off for some reason. Whether Vinny is on the hook for most if not all of these issues is beside the point. Someone is letting him, Joe, GW, Mr. Saunders make these calls. Danny at some point has to wise up and put someone in charge. Any in charge totally. I give Danny credit for willing to pay the money and spend every dime to put players on the field, he is awesome in that regard. but at some point he has to step back and say this plan has not worked out. 7 to 8 years of this structure hasn't produced what we want, what the fans want and deserve for their loyalty to this team. the fact that we have the highest payroll year end year out, the highest dead cap figure every year, and one of the worst records in the NFL over the last 10 years should say something about the way they do things.

This is exactly the point, we need a good, strong GM. Snyder needs to remove himself for the player aquisition process and let a professional handle it. This is not a fantasy football league, which was the way Snyder first handled the team.
Cerrato just needs to go. We need a change REGADLESS of who is to blame for what. Our drafts have sucked. Look at a team like the Chargers or Patriots, built mostly from strong drafts. We do not have many of our draft picks left on the team because they sucked. That is the fault of the front office. Time for changes.
Nobody has answered this: why do you want to keep Vinny and our front office the way it is currently? The proof is on the field and on our payroll numbers. Since 1999 we had one of the highest payrolls but our team has been in the bottom half in regards to W-L records and ability. Our fron t office has a failing grade. Sorry, but it is true.

[JDALY27]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

Vinny wasn't here when we drafted Champ. And while Cooley looks to be a decent pick, we gave up 2 picks to get him.

If you really get down to it, Dockery and Rock Cartwright were the only suprise gems this crowd has been able to unearth in six drafts.

Cooley was decent? Sean Taylor? Betts? Campbell?

Cooley is awesome bro!!

[Beemnseven]

Originally Posted by JDALY27

Cooley was decent? Sean Taylor? Betts? Campbell?

Cooley is awesome bro!!

A real "steal" would have been us getting Cooley without having to trade a future pick to get him. He was a 2-for-1 deal. And I hope you're sitting down because ... I don't put Cooley in the top tier of tight ends in the league.

Sean Taylor was a no-brainer, and yet he still has issues of his own to address before he can honestly be labeled a 'complete' safety. He still needs some progress.

And Betts? Many knowledgeable football people in 2002 had him rated as a 4th round pick, so it was a big-time reach for us to take him in the second round. And while he turned it on and gave us the performance of a lifetime last year, overall I don't think you can say his total output has been worthy of a second round pick -- they should be starters, not back-up guys.

Look, I can dissect just about everything this front office has done and find fault with it. I'll give them Dockery and Cartwright -- those were the only unexpected draft picks that turned out to be worth a toot. Some will dismiss that as pessimism, but I say it's an honest assessment. 41-55 over the six seasons speaks for itself.

[MTK]

The past two seasons it's tough to argue with Cooley's production, and based on his production I don't see how you can't put him in the tier of TEs in this league.

[hooskins]

I think most people like to blame Vinny instead of Gibbs because that is sac religious. I think Gibbs needs quite a bit of blame that people dont want to give.

[Beemnseven]

He's a fan favorite, so I know I'm walking on eggshells when I fail to put him the upper echelon they way others do.

There was a slump he went through part of last year when he just wasn't a factor, but it was only his third year in the league with quarterback issues to deal with, so I'll allow for that.

I just need to see more of an impact before I group him with Gates, Gonzales, Witten, Crumpler, or Clark.

[MTK]

Guess it depends on what we're calling "top tier". I'd easily place Cooley in the top 10 of the best TEs. I would listen to arguments that place him in the 5-7 range. That to me would be top tier.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

I just need to see more of an impact before I group him with Gates, Gonzales, Witten, Crumpler, or Clark.

Do you mean Dallas Clark?

C'mon the guy has never topped 40 catches or 5 TDs in one season.

[Rajmahal33]

Originally Posted by Sheriff Gonna Getcha

But Vinny isn't responsible for trading away picks. So if you don't like that strategy, your beef isn't with Vinny.

I look at our players on offense and I think he did a pretty good job of assembling talent. But, if you don't think the guys I list below are any good, please feel free to differ.

Jason Campbell - It's early, but he looks very promising
Clinton Portis - Need I say more
Ladell Betts - Excellent pick in the middle of the 2nd round
Rock Cartwright - He's not a starter, but he's excellent value for a 7th rounder.
Chris Cooley - Excellent pick, especially in the 3rd round
Santana Moss - Everyone thought we got screwed on the Coles trade, maybe not?
ARE - I simply love the guy, even if he's not posting 1,000 yard seasons
The entire O-line - Love em all.

I think we've got the talent on offense to be incredibly explosive if JC picks up his game and develops nicely.

- JC does look like he's going to do well but we did give up a good deal to get him
- CP was a great fit for our offense but we are wasting his talent by not surrounding him with a passing game (hopefully next year will be better) PLUS we did give up a pro-bowler and the best corner in the NFL in Champ
- Betts is great if we trade him but I don't think he will ever be able to carry the entire load under our offense...don't forget the fumbling issues
- Cartwright was probably the only under the radar guy that was picked up
- Cooley is great but as someone pointed out we gave up a LOT for him and they might let him leave to FA next year as well
- Santana Moss...let's not forget that our FO screwed up for a stretch there when we got Coles and he was a bust (this was the period when we were known as the jetskins and were a laughingstock)
- ARE is a great personality and player but has yet to prove that he was worth the money

ALSO notice that in the entire list above not ONE defensive player was mentioned. As everyone knows the cliche is that defense wins championships. Imagine if we had a GM that could scout defensive talent like Ozzie. Taylor was the only great defensive pick that the Cerrato era could be credited for. The jury is still out on Cartwright and Rogers has one season to prove his worth, IMO.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by hooskins

I think most people like to blame Vinny instead of Gibbs because that is sac religious. I think Gibbs needs quite a bit of blame that people dont want to give.

For whatever reason, Ceratto is much more protected it seems, and perhaps in a bit of denial. On more than one occasion, both Snyder and Gibbs have said "Hey I messed up and I admit it" But has anyone ever heard anything like that from VC?