The Official Presidential Debate Thread (Round 2)

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by Sheriff Gonna Getcha

IMO, McCain's answers sounded too canned. McCain's answers basically amounted to, "My friends. Bipartisan, reformer, maverick, reach across the aisle, voted for tax increases 94 times, reformed, special interests, reforming, independent. Thank you." Obama didn't do a fantastic job either, but his responses were more substantive.

The thing is Obama didn't need to do a fantastic job really. This debate was much more important for McCain. He needed to have a decisive win tonight.

[That Guy]

it's probably obama's to lose... his margin is decent, but there are some times polls under-represent republicans. I assumed obama would have a stronger showing here than mccain would, and it sounds like that's about right. mccain suggesting 300bill$ for paying off other people's bad decisions seems utterly stupid to me.

I missed the debate, but it doesn't really matter, since i've already voted.

[BleedBurgundy]

Originally Posted by That Guy

it's probably obama's to lose... his margin is decent, but there are some times polls under-represent republicans. I assumed obama would have a stronger showing here than mccain would, and it sounds like that's about right. mccain suggesting 300bill$ for paying off other people's bad decisions seems utterly stupid to me.

I missed the debate, but it doesn't really matter, since i've already voted.

This was, to me, the far most important thing to come out of this debate. The idea of government buying up mortgages is insane. If the McCain camp is banking on that "big idea" to garner support, they're screwed.

[Sheriff Gonna Getcha]

Originally Posted by BleedBurgundy

This was, to me, the far most important thing to come out of this debate. The idea of government buying up mortgages is insane. If the McCain camp is banking on that "big idea" to garner support, they're screwed.

What's the better solution? Allow Wall Street to totally implode and watch as we enter the Greatest Depression?

[BleedBurgundy]

Originally Posted by Sheriff Gonna Getcha

What's the better solution? Allow Wall Street to totally implode and watch as we enter the Greatest Depression?

Sorry, I don't personally believe that the government's role is to act as a mortgage lender. And... screw Wall Street. And Main Street. If you choose to *risk* your company's assets in shady, fundamentally poor investments and it comes back to bite you in the ass, that's on you. If you choose to *risk* your financial well being and purchase a home you cannot afford, that's on you. Everybody loves free/cheap money/assets but nobody wants to be responsible for their piss poor decision making. My own view is, let 'em fail, there will be a vacuum formed and new business will rush in to fill it. It may take time but I truly believe that would be the best in the long term. The way we're currently going, no one is going to learn ANYTHING from this mess. Everyone who screwed up and put us in this situation is going to get bailed out at the expense of everyone who was responsible. That's fucked up.

[redsk1]

Originally Posted by BleedBurgundy

Sorry, I don't personally believe that the government's role is to act as a mortgage lender. And... screw Wall Street. And Main Street. If you choose to *risk* your company's assets in shady, fundamentally poor investments and it comes back to bite you in the ass, that's on you. If you choose to *risk* your financial well being and purchase a home you cannot afford, that's on you. Everybody loves free/cheap money/assets but nobody wants to be responsible for their piss poor decision making. My own view is, let 'em fail, there will be a vacuum formed and new business will rush in to fill it. It may take time but I truly believe that would be the best in the long term. The way we're currently going, no one is going to learn ANYTHING from this mess. Everyone who screwed up and put us in this situation is going to get bailed out at the expense of everyone who was responsible. That's fucked up.

Just making a point that what used to be sound conservative investments are no longer that, like Fannie/Freddie & Mortgage Backed Securities.

[Sheriff Gonna Getcha]

Originally Posted by BleedBurgundy

Sorry, I don't personally believe that the government's role is to act as a mortgage lender. And... screw Wall Street. And Main Street. If you choose to *risk* your company's assets in shady, fundamentally poor investments and it comes back to bite you in the ass, that's on you. If you choose to *risk* your financial well being and purchase a home you cannot afford, that's on you. Everybody loves free/cheap money/assets but nobody wants to be responsible for their piss poor decision making. My own view is, let 'em fail, there will be a vacuum formed and new business will rush in to fill it. It may take time but I truly believe that would be the best in the long term. The way we're currently going, no one is going to learn ANYTHING from this mess. Everyone who screwed up and put us in this situation is going to get bailed out at the expense of everyone who was responsible. That's fucked up.

We are facing perhaps the greatest financial crisis in the entire history of our country; a crisis that could entail the collapse of thousands of businesses, the firing of millions of Americans, the break up of families, people going hungry, etc. and you're foremost concerned about punishing a few CEOs? Your opinion of the bailout shouldn't be based on a desire to punish bad businessmen, it should be based on a desire to make sure that the rest of us don't get hurt by their poor decisions.

[Hog1]

VERY BORING debates............all of them
I personally, have seen no deal breakers on either side, and really........nothing that I can put my finger on that would make anybody change sides.

[EternalEnigma21]

I watched for around an hour in the middle. I lost a lot of respect for mccain after he repeatedly suggested that obama had just stated he wanted to attack packistan, when he said no such thing. Twice.

I think that's what started the whole "Hero is Roosevelt... Speak softly and carry a big stick thing"


Obama answered the question perfectly, suggesting that he would attempt a diplomatic solution, unless pakistan was unwilling or unable to capture al queda or bin laden in their country, in which case we would go in for al queda (spelling?). Never suggested attacking pakistani people. McCain just tried to put words in his mouth that weren't even close. It feels like he's really just trying to appeal to morons, and he skirted the response... Probably because he couldn't improve on obamas response, but had he just agreed or improved I wouldve respected him more.

[Hog1]

I was reticent about posting this, but what the hell. It is Youtube, so take from it what you will.
I found it interesting

YouTube - BTW I'm Voting For Mccain / Palin

[saden1]

Originally Posted by Hog1

I was reticent about posting this, but what the hell. It is Youtube, so take from it what you will.
I found it interesting

YouTube - BTW I'm Voting For Mccain / Palin

LOL...he lost me at brain washing segment...he should have been at the Republican convention, they certainly needed him for diversity.

I must say though he was entertaining to watch....he certainly thinks outside the box though it's a box inside another box.

[Hog1]

Originally Posted by saden1

LOL...he lost me at brain washing segment...he should have been at the Republican convention, they certainly needed him for diversity.

I must say though he was entertaining to watch....he certainly thinks outside the box though it's a box inside another box.

Ergo,
take from it what you will......

[firstdown]

I watched some of the debate but I'm decided and they had the Skins on NFL replay. Even though Obama seems to have the lead its going to be a very tough election. I perfer McCain over Obama but I really don't like either one of them. My biggest issue the past couple of years has been taxes as it seems as a small business owner I pay and pay and pay. Then my CPA (I have very good CPA) does my taxes and I still owe more money. Obama's plan says a small business making under $250,000 will not see a tax increase but I think there are allot more people hit by this then what we hear. So if my business makes over $250,000 and I after paying all of my bills, employee's, etc... I end up bringing home $65,000 I'm getting a tax increase. Most small business owners I know gross more than $250,000 but bring home much less.

[Hog1]

Originally Posted by firstdown

I watched some of the debate but I'm decided and they had the Skins on NFL replay. Even though Obama seems to have the lead its going to be a very tough election. I perfer McCain over Obama but I really don't like either one of them. My biggest issue the past couple of years has been taxes as it seems as a small business owner I pay and pay and pay. Then my CPA (I have very good CPA) does my taxes and I still owe more money. Obama's plan says a small business making under $250,000 will not see a tax increase but I think there are allot more people hit by this then what we hear. So if my business makes over $250,000 and I after paying all of my bills, employee's, etc... I end up bringing home $65,000 I'm getting a tax increase. Most small business owners I know gross more than $250,000 but bring home much less.

If you have a Small (full time) business grossing less than 250k, your living on the street already. After expenses and tax's most business's won't have much left over.
If we are talking about personal income, over 250k. In OshKosh, that's probably pretty good loot. Not so in NYC, DC, either coast and much in between.
How does Barrack Hussein thinks that's fair, I wonder? He talks a lot about it. It seems much more fair if you are not in those groups, I imagine. These groups are already paying a whole lot more income tax than I am. Interesting concept of fairness Barrack has....
Actually, when you think about it, he's just a modern day Robin Hood? Steal from the rich and give to the poor?

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by Hog1

If you have a Small (full time) business grossing less than 250k, your living on the street already. After expenses and tax's most business's won't have much left over.
If we are talking about personal income, over 250k. In OshKosh, that's probably pretty good loot. Not so in NYC, DC, either coast and much in between.
How does Barrack Hussein thinks that's fair, I wonder? He talks a lot about it. It seems much more fair if you are not in those groups, I imagine. These groups are already paying a whole lot more income tax than I am. Interesting concept of fairness Barrack has....
Actually, when you think about it, he's just a modern day Robin Hood? Steal from the rich and give to the poor?

Well in my area if you do not have hugh over head to run the business 250k could mean some nice income. If its a business with alottmore over head then your right it could mean your making close to nothing. I know some new business owners where the business grosses over $300,000 but with all their overhead as a new business are just getting by. They will be fine after they pay off some of their equipment and keep growing but from what I read that will put them in a higher tax bracket under Obamas plan even though they are just getting by. His own words is any small business making over $250,000 will pay higher taxes. He does not say if the owner is making over 250k they will pay higher taxes. When he says this 250k number people think he is talking about the bring home pay of the owner which is incorrect.