Cerrato wants more draft picks

[BrunellMVP?]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

I disagree. I think we should judge draft picks within a week of when they were drafted. It's only logical

Right, becuase that is exactly what we did- how foolish of us...if we had only waited until week 2 we could have seen how dominant our picks are...

Might the WRs turn out great? yes. That was never my issue, my issue with the draft is that we took 3 receivers at ALL- we needed youth on the lines and we didn't draft them. instead we drafted "the best (sexiest?) players on the board" who all happened to be receivers (who other -stupid- teams passed on). fact is, only 1 player in our draft did contributed (significantly this year)- and he was a supplemental pick...

[celts32]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Guys really... we've had one season where we know for sure that Vinny is calling the shots, or at least is calling the good majority. Last year's draft class needs another year or two before we can really judge it, and this year call me crazy but I think we'll see a commitment to getting some lineman in here.

Matt, How do you remain so patient & positive in regards to this front office? I have loved this team pretty much since birth and will continue to love it unconditionaly...but I just don't have one ounce of patience left for a front office that involves Vinny. I mean the Chiefs just got Piolli and are talking about Mike Shannahan as coach and we are sitting here with Vinny who I doubt could get a job with any other team in the league.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by celts32

Matt, How do you remain so patient & positive in regards to this front office? I have loved this team pretty much since birth and will continue to love it unconditionaly...but I just don't have one ounce of patience left for a front office that involves Vinny. I mean the Chiefs just got Piolli and are talking about Mike Shannahan as coach and we are sitting here with Vinny who I doubt could get a job with any other team in the league.

Well you can run out of patience all you want but it does not do any good because I don't think Snyder comes here to see what fans want to make his decisions. Cerrato has had this job for only onr year so how do we know who was making the calls prior to then. I guess we could bitch about last years first three picks but if what Shawn Spring said is true then we could see big thing from them .

[BrunellMVP?]

Originally Posted by firstdown

Well you can run out of patience all you want but it does not do any good because I don't think Snyder comes here to see what fans want to make his decisions. Cerrato has had this job for only onr year so how do we know who was making the calls prior to then. I guess we could bitch about last years first three picks but if what Shawn Spring said is true then we could see big thing from them .

this 1 year talk, while true, greatly discounts Vinny's contribution. The guy was not a wallflower, he was a main party to the redskins over the past better part of a decade. Hired in 1999, he helped acquired older big name stars like Bruce Smith, Deion Sanders, Irving Fryar, and Mark Carrier. He was then fired by Marty Schottenheimer in 2001. After a brief stint as an ESPN college analyst Cerrato was rehired by Snyder 2002 as the Director of Player Personnel and was named Vice President of Football Operations in 2008.
Do we REALLY believe he had little to do with the teams consistently poor draft, trading and free agency decisions?

[BrunellMVP?]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Guys really... we've had one season where we know for sure that Vinny is calling the shots, or at least is calling the good majority. Last year's draft class needs another year or two before we can really judge it, and this year call me crazy but I think we'll see a commitment to getting some lineman in here.

while its only been 1 year that he's been "calling the shots" (for sure) he HAS BEEN THERE and therefore given a substantial amount of input. thus far the personal decision that have been made have been sub par. What has he done that makes you think that he's going to do be a good GM(ish)?

[Beemnseven]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Guys really... we've had one season where we know for sure that Vinny is calling the shots, or at least is calling the good majority. Last year's draft class needs another year or two before we can really judge it, and this year call me crazy but I think we'll see a commitment to getting some lineman in here.

One season? What do you think he's been doing for the past nine years?

[celts32]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

One season? What do you think he's been doing for the past nine years?

Totally...it's like the promotion last year somehow cleansed him.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by celts32

Totally...it's like the promotion last year somehow cleansed him.

No it didn't cleanse him, that's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is we now know who to blame. It's all on him now. In the past that wasn't clear.

[celts32]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

No it didn't cleanse him, that's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is we now know who to blame. It's all on him now. In the past that wasn't clear.

I didn't mean you in particular said it cleansed him...it's just the general feeling I get that somehow becasue he was given that promotion that it re-starts the clock and he has several years to prove himself from here. I just don't see it that way. The way I see it is if he's had 10% influence or 90% influence in the direcetion of the team he was still a part of it. I know we beat the vinny topic to death on here...the bottom line is that all I want to know is that if he fails he will be fired...and the last 10+ years is evidence that he won't be. So that's frustrating to me and many others...

[MTK]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

One season? What do you think he's been doing for the past nine years?

Yes for one season he was clearly the one calling the shots. In the past it was never clear if it was him, Snyder, Gibbs, Snyder's father, the janitor, etc.

[WaldSkins]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Yes for one season he was clearly the one calling the shots. In the past it was never clear if it was him, Snyder, Gibbs, Snyder's father, the janitor, etc.

I bet those 20 people that were fired by the Skins were calling the shots. That's most likely the reason they were let go.

[Beemnseven]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Yes for one season he was clearly the one calling the shots. In the past it was never clear if it was him, Snyder, Gibbs, Snyder's father, the janitor, etc.

I don't see how there can be any doubt about what Cerrato's role is with the Redskins no matter what job title he's had. Between 2004-2007, when Joe Gibbs was Team President, the man most directly responsible for players added to the roster was Vinny Cerrato. How do we know this? Because Vinny has always dealt with the personnel aspect of football. Joe Gibbs knew Vinny's background, and decided to keep him in the front office.

If nothing else, Gibbs was a delegator. He knew what his own strengths and weaknesses were. I just don't see why it is such a mystery as to what the roles were in the area of player-personnel. Clearly, Vinny's job -- as it always has been -- was to assemble the film of all prospects, college or pro, grade each player, and come to Gibbs with a list of what he felt were the best players. Gibbs simply selected from that list. Yes, Gibbs had the ultimate say about which players to select. But, and this is key -- who supplied him the list?

Before Gibbs, during the Spurrier era, Vinny had the same role with even more authority. Prior to Spurrier, it was clear that Lil' Danny had his wish list. So in that instance, Vinny likely had no say one way or the other.

So again, I don't understand why some people find this situation so murky. When you look at the main components of a football organization, there's coaching, there's cap management, there's ownership/administrative duties, and then there's the player-personnel department. Apart from 2001 when Marty Schottenheimer fired Cerrato, no one during Lil' Danny's ownership of the team had more input in the realm of player-personnel than Vinny Cerrato.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

If nothing else, Gibbs was a delegator. He knew what his own strengths and weaknesses were. I just don't see why it is such a mystery as to what the roles were in the area of player-personnel. Clearly, Vinny's job -- as it always has been -- was to assemble the film of all prospects, college or pro, grade each player, and come to Gibbs with a list of what he felt were the best players. Gibbs simply selected from that list. Yes, Gibbs had the ultimate say about which players to select. But, and this is key -- who supplied him the list?

Where did you hear that?

[MTK]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

I don't see how there can be any doubt about what Cerrato's role is with the Redskins no matter what job title he's had. Between 2004-2007, when Joe Gibbs was Team President, the man most directly responsible for players added to the roster was Vinny Cerrato. How do we know this? Because Vinny has always dealt with the personnel aspect of football. Joe Gibbs knew Vinny's background, and decided to keep him in the front office.

If nothing else, Gibbs was a delegator. He knew what his own strengths and weaknesses were. I just don't see why it is such a mystery as to what the roles were in the area of player-personnel. Clearly, Vinny's job -- as it always has been -- was to assemble the film of all prospects, college or pro, grade each player, and come to Gibbs with a list of what he felt were the best players. Gibbs simply selected from that list. Yes, Gibbs had the ultimate say about which players to select. But, and this is key -- who supplied him the list?

Before Gibbs, during the Spurrier era, Vinny had the same role with even more authority. Prior to Spurrier, it was clear that Lil' Danny had his wish list. So in that instance, Vinny likely had no say one way or the other.

So again, I don't understand why some people find this situation so murky. When you look at the main components of a football organization, there's coaching, there's cap management, there's ownership/administrative duties, and then there's the player-personnel department. Apart from 2001 when Marty Schottenheimer fired Cerrato, no one during Lil' Danny's ownership of the team had more input in the realm of player-personnel than Vinny Cerrato.

Based on what I know Vinny didn't make 100% of the personnel decisions prior to last year, not even close in fact. There's always been a committee approach involved and Snyder was always the tie breaker. The level of Vinny's input varied from decision to decision, but I'm glad your crystal ball is so clear.

[celts32]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

I don't see how there can be any doubt about what Cerrato's role is with the Redskins no matter what job title he's had. Between 2004-2007, when Joe Gibbs was Team President, the man most directly responsible for players added to the roster was Vinny Cerrato. How do we know this? Because Vinny has always dealt with the personnel aspect of football. Joe Gibbs knew Vinny's background, and decided to keep him in the front office.

If nothing else, Gibbs was a delegator. He knew what his own strengths and weaknesses were. I just don't see why it is such a mystery as to what the roles were in the area of player-personnel. Clearly, Vinny's job -- as it always has been -- was to assemble the film of all prospects, college or pro, grade each player, and come to Gibbs with a list of what he felt were the best players. Gibbs simply selected from that list. Yes, Gibbs had the ultimate say about which players to select. But, and this is key -- who supplied him the list?

Before Gibbs, during the Spurrier era, Vinny had the same role with even more authority. Prior to Spurrier, it was clear that Lil' Danny had his wish list. So in that instance, Vinny likely had no say one way or the other.

So again, I don't understand why some people find this situation so murky. When you look at the main components of a football organization, there's coaching, there's cap management, there's ownership/administrative duties, and then there's the player-personnel department. Apart from 2001 when Marty Schottenheimer fired Cerrato, no one during Lil' Danny's ownership of the team had more input in the realm of player-personnel than Vinny Cerrato.

I agree 100%. I have nothing against Vinny personally, but as I said before I just don't believe he has been held to the same results oriented standards that everyone else in the Redskins organization has been for the last 10+ years. And if I really believed that this is year 2 of a 4 year window that he had to produce or else I would probably be more patient. However, history says that is not the case and if they don't win he will just be repackaged in a new role alongside another high profile coach. Basically, I will believe that Vinny is accountable when I see Snyder stand up like a man and fire him...