Jason Campbell gets his mind right for the season..

[VTSkinfan]

I'm going to put my in. Campbell's okay but not great. He showed good promise when he joined us becuase he's a good scrambler, but he needs to learn to stay in the pocket and make better decisions and he really hasn't fulfilled that role of a long term quarterback. I know he's been injured and been surrounded by change, but he could still manage to do a little better. Personally I think when Brennan develops he'll become the QB of the future.

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by mlmpetert

Right on. I was a little put off by what JC was saying regarding race. It took away from all the other good things he said.

It also took away from the real point of this thread; JC maturating. Our fault for reading it, or his fault for saying it?

McNabb played his first complete season last year since 2003. That's why he sometimes gets blown off as not a top tier QB. It’s not because he's African American. Another comparison I think of is pitchers in baseball. There are a much higher percentage of white pitchers then comparable to the makeup of the other positions in baseball. How many white running backs are there? Just seems like certain skill sets suite certain races differently.

What you said is one of the most damning statements there is about black QB. The reasoning there were fewer black QB in the league years ago was because they lacked the 'mental acuity to handle the position'. They were better suited to just run and jump. While that's not spoken in league circles, there is that stigma that lingers, especially when the whispers come out about 'slow to grasp the offense' or 'trouble reading defenses'.

The other thing that gets overlooked is the longevity of average black QB to average white QB. For every Charlie Batch (mid round career backup), there are 3 Luke McCowns. For every Byron Leftwich (former 1st rounder that didn't stick as a starter), there are 3-4 Joey Harringtons or Patrick Ramseys. The standards are different, like it or not.

Sorry for derailing the thread but it's an issue that gets pooh poohed too much by people fooling themselves into thinking that sports are colorblind.

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by VTSkinfan

I'm going to put my in. Campbell's okay but not great. He showed good promise when he joined us becuase he's a good scrambler, but he needs to learn to stay in the pocket and make better decisions and he really hasn't fulfilled that role of a long term quarterback. I know he's been injured and been surrounded by change, but he could still manage to do a little better. Personally I think when Brennan develops he'll become the QB of the future.

Welcome to the board.. I think when there IS a pocket, JC stays in it. That was the problem the 2nd half last season, there wasn't much of a pocket. If Brennan develops into anything more than a jouneyman and a preseason legend I will be very surprised.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Is this serious? I don't remember the Seahawks trying to boot Hasselbeck after the 2003 playoff loss. He went to the pro bowl and super bowl two years later. Jake Delhomme has yet to win a playoff game since 2005 and he just got a 5 year extension. Alex Smith, whose career highlights include winning 7 games with the Niners three years ago, is still competiting for his teams starting position in 2009. Eli Manning, for all of his struggles in his development, won a ring in his fourth year as a starter, and might get the biggest deal in league history. Kyle Orton has been one of the worst QBs in the NFL over the last four years, and he's still a team's QB of the future. Hell, Drew Bledsoe's career lasted another 8 years after he stopped playing well.

You see, that's the big picture. The race card got played in the abscence of an actual logical reason for the team's actions. You look at all the names above, and you do have to wonder that if Campbell's plight is just the status quo for an NFL quarterback, what's different about the guy's listed above.

The team can be not sold on anybody they want to. There's nothing wrong with making a change to improve at a position in March. The problem, of course, with telling your guy tht you're not sold on him...and then not really having a solid foundation for the belief is that you come off like someone with preconceived biases.

Now, I'm not saying Campbell should have gone there, or that going there makes anything different, or that life is fair, or that he's even entitled to a fair shake at his profession. I am saying that the evidence seems to strengthen his assessment, though it's still a case of correllation not equalling causation.

So you really think that Zorn/Snyder or who ever looked to trade Campbell could not give a good reason for trading him. What do you want them to do? Go to the press and say. We are looking to trade JC because he is slow in the pocket, stairs down WR's, cannot make the big plays, holds the ball to long, etc... Now any team that wants to trade us for this great QB give us a call.

[mlmpetert]

Originally Posted by Hog1

The line (barring multiple injuries) should be preety good assuming we have a competent right tackle. JC is going to have to learn how to buy a little time in the pocket

The only upgrade is Dockery. But it's for Pete Kendell who preformed pretty good last year, if not the best on the line. So while Dockery is a much longer term fix (and therefore an upgrade) then the banade Kendell was, talent wise we havent really improved at all.

Of course Mikey Williams could be a show Brady what a Come Back Player of the Year really is. Or Heyer may finally step up, or Chad may step in, but I dont see a drastic difference from last year.

[mlmpetert]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

What you said is one of the most damning statements there is about black QB. The reasoning there were fewer black QB in the league years ago was because they lacked the 'mental acuity to handle the position'. They were better suited to just run and jump. While that's not spoken in league circles, there is that stigma that lingers, especially when the whispers come out about 'slow to grasp the offense' or 'trouble reading defenses'.

The other thing that gets overlooked is the longevity of average black QB to average white QB. For every Charlie Batch (mid round career backup), there are 3 Luke McCowns. For every Byron Leftwich (former 1st rounder that didn't stick as a starter), there are 3-4 Joey Harringtons or Patrick Ramseys. The standards are different, like it or not.

Sorry for derailing the thread but it's an issue that gets pooh poohed too much by people fooling themselves into thinking that sports are colorblind.

I agree that there is that stigma left over from the old days, but I think it’s quickly put to rest when a qb whatever color makes the correct read, or obviously knows his play book. And look at college. There are just flat out less black qb's in D1 college, so of course there will be less in the NFL. Maybe it stems from college, I dont know.

And think about baseball why are there more white pitchers percentage wise to the makeup of the rest of the league. Maybe white people just have better arm strength, accuracy, or touch for some reason. It’s a touchy subject so probably isn’t that well studied.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by firstdown

So you really think that Zorn/Snyder or who ever looked to trade Campbell could not give a good reason for trading him. What do you want them to do? Go to the press and say. We are looking to trade JC because he is slow in the pocket, stairs down WR's, cannot make the big plays, holds the ball to long, etc... Now any team that wants to trade us for this great QB give us a call.

How is that any different from what they did do, which was try to trade their starting quarterback for a second or third round pick in an attempt to use multiple first round picks to get a slightly more different starting quarterback? It's not.

[Lotus]

Originally Posted by mlmpetert

I agree that there is that stigma left over from the old days, but I think it’s quickly put to rest when a qb whatever color makes the correct read, or obviously knows his play book. And look at college. There are just flat out less black qb's in D1 college, so of course there will be less in the NFL. Maybe it stems from college, I dont know.

And think about baseball why are there more white pitchers percentage wise to the makeup of the rest of the league. Maybe white people just have better arm strength, accuracy, or touch for some reason. It’s a touchy subject so probably isn’t that well studied.

You do realize that your statement is inherently racist, right? So was your prior statement about different positions suiting different races. Some years ago Jimmy the Greek was fired for making a very similar statement on air.

Look, I'm as white as white gets, so I have no axe of my own to grind here. But judging the ability of a person to play a certain position because of the color of their skin is racism.

With your statements you have proven JC to be correct: in the eyes of some people there is a racial double standard regarding the quarterback position.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by Lotus

You do realize that your statement is inherently racist, right? So was your prior statement about different positions suiting different races. Some years ago Jimmy the Greek was fired for making a very similar statement on air.

Look, I'm as white as white gets, so I have no axe of my own to grind here. But judging the ability of a person to play a certain position because of the color of their skin is racism.

With your statements you have proven JC to be correct: in the eyes of some people there is a racial double standard regarding the quarterback position.

Agreed...I was actually hoping no one would respond to mlmpetert's comment so as not to lend it any recognition.

[Lotus]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Agreed...I was actually hoping no one would respond to mlmpetert's comment so as not to lend it any recognition.

Sorry...your strategy is better.

[Redskins_P]

I think Latino NFL players make the best kickers. Zendejas!

[53Fan]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Is this serious? I don't remember the Seahawks trying to boot Hasselbeck after the 2003 playoff loss. He went to the pro bowl and super bowl two years later. Jake Delhomme has yet to win a playoff game since 2005 and he just got a 5 year extension. Alex Smith, whose career highlights include winning 7 games with the Niners three years ago, is still competiting for his teams starting position in 2009. Eli Manning, for all of his struggles in his development, won a ring in his fourth year as a starter, and might get the biggest deal in league history. Kyle Orton has been one of the worst QBs in the NFL over the last four years, and he's still a team's QB of the future. Hell, Drew Bledsoe's career lasted another 8 years after he stopped playing well.

You see, that's the big picture. The race card got played in the abscence of an actual logical reason for the team's actions. You look at all the names above, and you do have to wonder that if Campbell's plight is just the status quo for an NFL quarterback, what's different about the guy's listed above.

The team can be not sold on anybody they want to. There's nothing wrong with making a change to improve at a position in March. The problem, of course, with telling your guy tht you're not sold on him...and then not really having a solid foundation for the belief is that you come off like someone with preconceived biases.

Now, I'm not saying Campbell should have gone there, or that going there makes anything different, or that life is fair, or that he's even entitled to a fair shake at his profession. I am saying that the evidence seems to strengthen his assessment, though it's still a case of correllation not equalling causation.

I think you pretty much hit the nail on the head GTripp.

[Dirtbag59]

Originally Posted by mlmpetert

McNabb played his first complete season last year since 2003. That's why he sometimes gets blown off as not a top tier QB. It’s not because he's African American. Another comparison I think of is pitchers in baseball. There are a much higher percentage of white pitchers then comparable to the makeup of the other positions in baseball. How many white running backs are there? Just seems like certain skill sets suite certain races differently.

Baseball though might have more of an excuse because right now it mostly consist of white and latino players. I had a teammate back in high school that played baseball during the spring and he used to joke about how he was "the only brother out there." Anyway I think Joe Morgan was right when he said that most black kids are choosing to play football and basketball instead of baseball.

[WaldSkins]

Originally Posted by mlmpetert

I agree that there is that stigma left over from the old days, but I think it’s quickly put to rest when a qb whatever color makes the correct read, or obviously knows his play book. And look at college. There are just flat out less black qb's in D1 college, so of course there will be less in the NFL. Maybe it stems from college, I dont know.

And think about baseball why are there more white pitchers percentage wise to the makeup of the rest of the league. Maybe white people just have better arm strength, accuracy, or touch for some reason. It’s a touchy subject so probably isn’t that well studied.

Maybe Jason Campbell just isn't that good of a quarterback?

[dgack]

Originally Posted by firstdown

I have always felt that JC look at himself as the leader of the O and I'm not sure why you think CP was the leader. As far as I know JC makes the calles in the huddle and directs the players and not CP. I think your confusing Portis off the field and the Portis on the field which are two different things.

No, they really aren't. Everyone knows the QB directs the offense, but that's not the same thing as being the leader of a group of men. I certainly can understand WHY he wasn't so vocal and authoritative last year, but it's just good that he now feels ready to take that command.

Jason probably felt that it wasn't "his team" yet before now, and I think now that he's been somewhat put on notice by Snyder and had his abilities questioned, he's fired up and isn't going to be taking any sh*t from anyone.

This, in a nutshell is why Gilbert Arenas is still (sadly, in my opinion as I'm a big Agent Zero fan) a 2nd tier player. He's the first one to defer to Jamison and claim he's not the leader of the team. Say what you want about LeWhine, Kobe, or even D-Wade, but all of those guys believe the team is theirs and they are the guys calling the shots.

I think on a professional football team you want that guy to be your QB, and I think for the first time Jason is projecting that kind of attitude.