Bigger waste of money?

illdefined · 10-11-2004, 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZackMills

I really wish people would stop bringing that up. Just because we went 0-5 his first tenure doesnt mean were gonna do it again. Plus, that was when he was a rookie coach, he's not a rookie coach, he's a HOF coach, so why doesnt he hit the ground running if he's so great, a la Bill Parcells?

i was annoyed by that too, but i guess people figure 12yrs out of the game kinda makes you a rookie again to all the new stuff thats happened in the NFL..

That Guy · 10-11-2004, 08:58 AM

he's not great out the gate like parcells, cause unlike parcells he LEFT FOOTBALL FOR 12 YEARS!... parcells wasn't coaching for 2 years, but he never stopped watching teams and players and seeing what people were doing... he never left. he also inherited a club with some stability, even if they sucked...

jbcjr14 · 10-11-2004, 09:27 AM

Its not the coach that is causing the problems here. This team is 1-4 and has not lost a game by more than 7 points. They will turn it around, keep the faith. It's painful to watch a team beat itself, but there still is light at the end of the tunnel.

sportscurmudgeon · 10-11-2004, 09:48 AM

Ramseyfan:

Vince Lombardi coached one season in DC. He took over a team that had posted one winning record in the past 12 or 13 years and made them a .500 team in the first season. Then he came down with cancer and died.

To say that he was "not successful" or that maybe "the game had passed him by" is really a tenuous argument.

When Casey Stengel camae back from retirement to coach the Mets when they were created, his team lost 120 games in one year. No one - and I mean NO ONE - thought then or thinks today that it was Stengel's being behind the times that caused that. He did not have the players.

Joe Gibbs has a flawed team on the field. He inherited an even more flawed team but in a salary cap enforinment, you cannot fix everything in a single year. Now, if the team is still this flawed next year at this time, it will be perfectly appropriate to ask if Joe Gibbs is on top of football as it is played in 2005.

MTK · 10-11-2004, 10:22 AM

Dick Vermeil won a total of 9 games in his first two seasons back in the league. Does anyone question his coaching credentials now?

Gibbs will have success again as well. Unforunately it's gonna take some time and 5 games isn't a fair assessment.

SmootSmack · 10-11-2004, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZackMills

I really wish people would stop bringing that up. Just because we went 0-5 his first tenure doesnt mean were gonna do it again. Plus, that was when he was a rookie coach, he's not a rookie coach, he's a HOF coach, so why doesnt he hit the ground running if he's so great, a la Bill Parcells?

Here are some other slow starts by Gibbs:

1984: Started 0-2, Finished 11-5
1985: Started 1-3, Finished 10-6
1989: Started 1-2, Finished 10-6

So it wasn't only in his rookie year.

MTK · 10-11-2004, 11:00 AM

I don't understand how someone can question Gibbs and wish for Spurrier back when Spurrier was a complete disaster and all but admitted so by walking away.

At least Gibbs has a proven track record to look back on. He's been in these types of situations before and worked through them.

Skins fan 44 · 10-11-2004, 11:12 AM

Well we quickly found out that Coach Gibbs does not walk on water. lol Changes are needed but it most definatly but it does not start with Coach Gibbs. Was Coach responsible for Brunell throwing 3 straight balls in the turf? Was Coach responsible for the punt return so elementary that I rembember doing the reverse (having 2 people back on punt returns) in high school?

Matty- I was thinking the same thing about Dick Vermeil. I can rembember the Rams going into there 3rd season with him. It sure did not look very pretty and they won the Super Bowl.

We all know now that this thing is not as easy as it looks.

SkinsRock · 10-11-2004, 12:59 PM

Gibbs is not entirely at fault for this miserable start, but he is the one that wanted to sign and start Mark Brunell and the rest of the (offensive) off-season acquisitions. Brunell has looked horrible, and it is too much to blame on the system. On the other hand, in pre-season, everyone talked about how the offense was so "vanilla", and I'm sorry, but I don't see that much of a difference.
I have full confidence that Gibbs will turn this team around one way or another, but the blame has to be spread throughout the entire offense, including the offensive coaches and head coach.....Not to mention the awful special teams play. But to me, the biggest culprits have been the O-line and Brunell.

SmootSmack · 10-11-2004, 01:09 PM

If I remember right one of the reasons for getting Brunell was to provide some depth at the QB situation and to allow Ramsey to learn by observing, instead of throwing him to the wolves and having his confidence shaken.

Well let's see now what Ramsey has learned

10-11-2004, 09:27 AM	#33
jbcjr14 The Starter Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Austin, Texas Age: 54 Posts: 2,015	Its not the coach that is causing the problems here. This team is 1-4 and has not lost a game by more than 7 points. They will turn it around, keep the faith. It's painful to watch a team beat itself, but there still is light at the end of the tunnel. __________________ "Work Harder: millions on welfare are counting on you" - Obama 2009 address to Congress.

10-11-2004, 09:48 AM	#34
sportscurmudgeon Playmaker Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 3,159	Ramseyfan: Vince Lombardi coached one season in DC. He took over a team that had posted one winning record in the past 12 or 13 years and made them a .500 team in the first season. Then he came down with cancer and died. To say that he was "not successful" or that maybe "the game had passed him by" is really a tenuous argument. When Casey Stengel camae back from retirement to coach the Mets when they were created, his team lost 120 games in one year. No one - and I mean NO ONE - thought then or thinks today that it was Stengel's being behind the times that caused that. He did not have the players. Joe Gibbs has a flawed team on the field. He inherited an even more flawed team but in a salary cap enforinment, you cannot fix everything in a single year. Now, if the team is still this flawed next year at this time, it will be perfectly appropriate to ask if Joe Gibbs is on top of football as it is played in 2005. __________________ The Sports Curmudgeon www.sportscurmudgeon.com But don't get me wrong, I love sports...

10-11-2004, 11:12 AM	#38
Skins fan 44 Impact Rookie Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Brazil, IN Age: 54 Posts: 883	Well we quickly found out that Coach Gibbs does not walk on water. lol Changes are needed but it most definatly but it does not start with Coach Gibbs. Was Coach responsible for Brunell throwing 3 straight balls in the turf? Was Coach responsible for the punt return so elementary that I rembember doing the reverse (having 2 people back on punt returns) in high school? Matty- I was thinking the same thing about Dick Vermeil. I can rembember the Rams going into there 3rd season with him. It sure did not look very pretty and they won the Super Bowl. We all know now that this thing is not as easy as it looks. __________________ HTTR!

10-11-2004, 01:09 PM	#40
SmootSmack Uncle Phil Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 45,256	If I remember right one of the reasons for getting Brunell was to provide some depth at the QB situation and to allow Ramsey to learn by observing, instead of throwing him to the wolves and having his confidence shaken. Well let's see now what Ramsey has learned __________________ You're So Vain...You Probably Think This Sig Is About You

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10-11-2004, 08:58 AM	#32
That Guy Living Legend Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: VA Age: 42 Posts: 17,553	he's not great out the gate like parcells, cause unlike parcells he LEFT FOOTBALL FOR 12 YEARS!... parcells wasn't coaching for 2 years, but he never stopped watching teams and players and seeing what people were doing... he never left. he also inherited a club with some stability, even if they sucked...

10-11-2004, 10:22 AM	#35
MTK \m/ Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: NY Age: 52 Posts: 99,518	Dick Vermeil won a total of 9 games in his first two seasons back in the league. Does anyone question his coaching credentials now? Gibbs will have success again as well. Unforunately it's gonna take some time and 5 games isn't a fair assessment.

10-11-2004, 11:00 AM	#37
MTK \m/ Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: NY Age: 52 Posts: 99,518	I don't understand how someone can question Gibbs and wish for Spurrier back when Spurrier was a complete disaster and all but admitted so by walking away. At least Gibbs has a proven track record to look back on. He's been in these types of situations before and worked through them.

10-11-2004, 12:59 PM	#39
SkinsRock Impact Rookie Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Crofton, MD Age: 55 Posts: 907	Gibbs is not entirely at fault for this miserable start, but he is the one that wanted to sign and start Mark Brunell and the rest of the (offensive) off-season acquisitions. Brunell has looked horrible, and it is too much to blame on the system. On the other hand, in pre-season, everyone talked about how the offense was so "vanilla", and I'm sorry, but I don't see that much of a difference. I have full confidence that Gibbs will turn this team around one way or another, but the blame has to be spread throughout the entire offense, including the offensive coaches and head coach.....Not to mention the awful special teams play. But to me, the biggest culprits have been the O-line and Brunell.

Bigger waste of money?

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