Some optimism on the 'Shanaplan'

[Meks]

Gaffney, Hankerson and Moss could be a dangerous top 3 next year... lets see who ends up throwing them the ball tho lol

[skinsfaninok]

This team needs a Playmaking WR hopefully D Bowe next year

[skinsfaninok]

Moss is old guys I love the guy but age is catching him fast, Hank is unproven and Gaffney is a stop gap player, it's time for a good upgrade at WR

[rocnrik]

Good Post..from what I have seen RGIII would be a excellent choice for our QB ..he can run so it would help out the Oline..he can throw the ball on the run as good as any QB in the draft..Get him..then go after a CB,OL,WR...add some solid free agents for depth and we might be somewhat competitive next year..

[REDSKINS4ever]

This season started with promise. I look at the bye week as the turning point. The Redskins were 3-1 heading into the bye week. After the bye week the Redskins suffered six straight losses and are therefore 3-7. Would this have happened had the bye week come after week 8 or week 7. That bye week is a jinx. I never liked it. I always felt that the bye week should be after half the games have been played. It seemed to me that the bye week derailed the fierce momentum the Redskins had before it.

[The Goat]

Longest...first...post...ever. I'll try to read it over the next week or so

[#56fanatic]

I for one am very excited about the future of my Washington Redskins. This year started out with a lot of excitement, but reality sets in and you see why the experts are the experts prodicting us to win 3 or 4 games, and be in the running for the #1 pick.

As far as Shanahan, I am liking what I see. Players seem to be buying into what he is selling, and really holding themselves accountable. I have been waiting for this organization to build this team the right way and finally I am getting what I have wished for every christmas for the last 10 years.

I can see the young talent being injected into this team and if you look at it, it really is exciting to think of the possibilities of the future, which honestly is a year to two away.

I wont even discuss the QB because we all know where that is going.

But the youth at RB with Hightower, Helu, Torain (which probably wont be around next year)
WR with Hankerson, Paul, Austin, Armstrong
TE with Davis
offensive line - Williams, Lichinsteiger, Montgomery, Chester and Brown are late 20's I believe (29ish)
D line - Bowen, Cofield,(not sure the age, but under 30) and Jenkins who is going to be a stud. Rotating Neild, a 7th rounder mind you.
LB core, come on Orakpo, Kerrigan, RILEY, jackson - i think we'll draft a LB somewhere this years draft
Corners and safeties. Hall isn't old (but better step it up) Barnes, Landry, Westbrooke (so,so)

really this team is headed in the right direction. I hope Snyder gives Shanny 4 good seasons to build this thing and reap the benefits because we are going to build a winner here. Allen has proven he can build a winner in Tampa and Oakland. Two superbowls as a GM in a short span. These guys will get it done, Danny just needs to give it 4 or 5 years and we'll be a consistant winner again.

[skinsguy]

Well thought out and very accurate Paintrain. I agree with mostly everything you said. I felt season one was a throw away season anyway. Instead of Shanahan completely blowing up the roster, he decided to play it safe (and more cost efficient) by seeing what talent was there and if that talent could fit in with his plans. This season was truly the beginning of the "Shanaplan" and I agree that we probably won't truly start to see the plan coming together until next season. I would say by season four, that is where the rubber meets the road. While we might still be adding pieces for depth in that season, the Redskins should be good enough to compete at that point.

Originally Posted by Paintrain

So here we sit 10 games into another lost season, one that started with what turns out to be false hope. Injuries and overall crappy play have been the signatures of what we've seen and calls for the coach's head have predictably started. I was thinking over the past two weeks about how bad our overall roster is and it's been pointed out that Shanny has turned over about 70% of the roster he inherited from Zorn/Vinny so this is 'his team/his fault'. But, with the project he had, could we have really expected much more than where we are today?

Food for thought on the Shanaplan as I see it:
1. 2010 season-Shanny 'went for it' by going after McNabb but otherwise, started the season with pretty much the same core roster and starters. Think about our starting offense on opening day last year outside of T. Williams and McNabb. Portis, Sellers, Rabach, Dockery, Cooley, Moss were all returning. The change to the 3-4 was questionable but necessary for the long term. This was a way to gauge what he had, who fit-who didn't and to see how big of a project was ahead of him or see if he could win with what was here. The 2010 draft class contributed starters in Trent Williams, Perry Riley and Adam Carriker (via trade) and depth players in Terrence Austin and Brandon Banks (RFA) plus Erik Cook who is on the roster but showed in his brief action he's probably not an NFL player.

2. 2011 offseason-this was a complete bust as a result of the lockout. At the beginning of the season it seemed that the loss of OTA's and the offseason wasn't a big deal but as we got into the depth of the roster we saw a dramatic dropoff. The gap between raw talent and coached skill was huge. We also saw the slow development of rookies like Hankerson and Paul where a full offseason would have made an impact. However, as noted in a separate thread, our draft class has given us at least 7 players (Kerrigan, Jenkins, Hankerson, Helu, Paul, Hurt, Neild) who will likely contribute in 2012 and beyond. In two years, we've added 10-12 players via the draft who should be valuable through their rookie contracts.

In addition, with a whole offseason, I think the Beck experiment would have never happened. I think another veteran QB would have been brought in to truly compete for the starting job and Beck-mania never would have gotten off the ground.

3. 2011 season-Let's be real, this season sucks. A good start, a hard crash down to reality. Reality as I see it is that we still have one of the worst rosters in the league, probably bottom 2 or 3 from a talent perspective. I've stated that no more than 6 of our 22 starters could start for a competitive NFL team. That being said, we are making progress. This is our first season of truly 'rebuilding'. Last year was trying to win with what was here + a vet QB. This year is playing young players to see who develops and who is not a piece to work with going forward. For the rest of the season we will continue to see young players get experience and players who won't be here getting phased out. Positives are the play of Kerrigan, Jenkins in the preseason, Helu, Paul and Neild. Hankerson showed the light starting to come on before his injury. Our 2010 rookies have played decently, none have fallen off from their prior season performance which is a positive.

4. 2012 offseason-This is where the work begins to take shape. Our strategy should be clear. Get a QB, get a playmaking WR, build depth on the OL, get a CB. The great thing about Beck/Rex is that we aren't tied to either one of them. Same goes for most positions that need to be upgraded. The only veteran WR we are tied to is Moss. Our opening day starting OL wasn't elite but they were good enough. I don't think we have 5 INT from our entire secondary so that needs to be a focus as well.

The future is brighter than the present and a far cry from our past. Thoughts?

[Jontrem]

The most important thing that has happened since he has arrived is the influx of young talent. Like Paintrain said we have at least 7 guys from the last two drafts who will contribute going forward. We need Shanny to draft a QB and we need to not have such terrible luck with injuries and I think we will be taking nice steps forward the next two years!

[SirClintonPortis]

Originally Posted by The Goat

Longest...first...post...ever. I'll try to read it over the next week or so

Um, he had a few thousand posts before this one.

[redskinjim]

Originally Posted by REDSKINS4ever

This season started with promise. I look at the bye week as the turning point. The Redskins were 3-1 heading into the bye week. After the bye week the Redskins suffered six straight losses and are therefore 3-7. Would this have happened had the bye week come after week 8 or week 7. That bye week is a jinx. I never liked it. I always felt that the bye week should be after half the games have been played. It seemed to me that the bye week derailed the fierce momentum the Redskins had before it.

we got creamed by the eagles shanahan did not have a good plan in that game we came out flat and paid the price the injuries in this game were a killer

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by SirClintonPortis

Um, he had a few thousand posts before this one.

Pretty sure he just meant first post in this thread

[skinsfaninok]

Originally Posted by #56fanatic

I for one am very excited about the future of my Washington Redskins. This year started out with a lot of excitement, but reality sets in and you see why the experts are the experts prodicting us to win 3 or 4 games, and be in the running for the #1 pick.

As far as Shanahan, I am liking what I see. Players seem to be buying into what he is selling, and really holding themselves accountable. I have been waiting for this organization to build this team the right way and finally I am getting what I have wished for every christmas for the last 10 years.

I can see the young talent being injected into this team and if you look at it, it really is exciting to think of the possibilities of the future, which honestly is a year to two away.

I wont even discuss the QB because we all know where that is going.

But the youth at RB with Hightower, Helu, Torain (which probably wont be around next year)
WR with Hankerson, Paul, Austin, Armstrong
TE with Davis
offensive line - Williams, Lichinsteiger, Montgomery, Chester and Brown are late 20's I believe (29ish)
D line - Bowen, Cofield,(not sure the age, but under 30) and Jenkins who is going to be a stud. Rotating Neild, a 7th rounder mind you.
LB core, come on Orakpo, Kerrigan, RILEY, jackson - i think we'll draft a LB somewhere this years draft
Corners and safeties. Hall isn't old (but better step it up) Barnes, Landry, Westbrooke (so,so)

really this team is headed in the right direction. I hope Snyder gives Shanny 4 good seasons to build this thing and reap the benefits because we are going to build a winner here. Allen has proven he can build a winner in Tampa and Oakland. Two superbowls as a GM in a short span. These guys will get it done, Danny just needs to give it 4 or 5 years and we'll be a consistant winner again.

Good post I feel the same HTTR!

[The Goat]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

So here we sit 10 games into another lost season, one that started with what turns out to be false hope. Injuries and overall crappy play have been the signatures of what we've seen and calls for the coach's head have predictably started. I was thinking over the past two weeks about how bad our overall roster is and it's been pointed out that Shanny has turned over about 70% of the roster he inherited from Zorn/Vinny so this is 'his team/his fault'. CLKSM-5400170

Food for thought on the Shanaplan as I see it:
1. 2010 season-Shanny 'went for it' by going after McNabb but otherwise, started the season with pretty much the same core roster and starters. Think about our starting offense on opening day last year outside of T. Williams and McNabb. Portis, Sellers, Rabach, Dockery, Cooley, Moss were all returning. The change to the 3-4 was questionable but necessary for the long term. This was a way to gauge what he had, who fit-who didn't and to see how big of a project was ahead of him or see if he could win with what was here. The 2010 draft class contributed starters in Trent Williams, Perry Riley and Adam Carriker (via trade) and depth players in Terrence Austin and Brandon Banks (RFA) plus Erik Cook who is on the roster but showed in his brief action he's probably not an NFL player.

2. 2011 offseason-this was a complete bust as a result of the lockout. At the beginning of the season it seemed that the loss of OTA's and the offseason wasn't a big deal but as we got into the depth of the roster we saw a dramatic dropoff. The gap between raw talent and coached skill was huge. We also saw the slow development of rookies like Hankerson and Paul where a full offseason would have made an impact. However, as noted in a separate thread, our draft class has given us at least 7 players (Kerrigan, Jenkins, Hankerson, Helu, Paul, Hurt, Neild) who will likely contribute in 2012 and beyond. In two years, we've added 10-12 players via the draft who should be valuable through their rookie contracts.

In addition, with a whole offseason, I think the Beck experiment would have never happened. I think another veteran QB would have been brought in to truly compete for the starting job and Beck-mania never would have gotten off the ground.

3. 2011 season-Let's be real, this season sucks. A good start, a hard crash down to reality. Reality as I see it is that we still have one of the worst rosters in the league, probably bottom 2 or 3 from a talent perspective. I've stated that no more than 6 of our 22 starters could start for a competitive NFL team. That being said, we are making progress. This is our first season of truly 'rebuilding'. Last year was trying to win with what was here + a vet QB. This year is playing young players to see who develops and who is not a piece to work with going forward. For the rest of the season we will continue to see young players get experience and players who won't be here getting phased out. Positives are the play of Kerrigan, Jenkins in the preseason, Helu, Paul and Neild. Hankerson showed the light starting to come on before his injury. Our 2010 rookies have played decently, none have fallen off from their prior season performance which is a positive.

4. 2012 offseason-This is where the work begins to take shape. Our strategy should be clear. Get a QB, get a playmaking WR, build depth on the OL, get a CB. The great thing about Beck/Rex is that we aren't tied to either one of them. Same goes for most positions that need to be upgraded. The only veteran WR we are tied to is Moss. Our opening day starting OL wasn't elite but they were good enough. I don't think we have 5 INT from our entire secondary so that needs to be a focus as well.

The future is brighter than the present and a far cry from our past. Thoughts?

I (genuinely) admire the optimism you have for this franchise in its current state! Optimism is a great attitude for life in general...I have it...but I can't for the franchise.

Every major decision Mike, or Mike and/or BA, or Mike and/or BA and/or Kyle, made has set this team further and further back. Why was switching to the 3-4 defense necessary for the future? Is your argument saying only 3-4 defenses are elite? I don't buy that. Regardless, the opportunity cost of blowing up the defense has proven enormous. This fact is corroberated every time someone on the board acknowledges our offense is terrible and terribly deficient of talent i.e. we spend the last two off-seasons spending more than half our picks/FAs on defense.

...and the bottom line is our defense still isn't as good as it was before the switch. I think there's a stong argument to be made we'd still be a better 4-3 defense, especially based on our front 7, because we still don't have the NT required to make the 3-4 dominant. Soooooo we can say Mike and/or whoever decided to force the system w/o the most important piece in place. We can also say it will still require at least a few more major investments in the defense to "finish" it so to speak. NT. FS. CB (maybe two). Prior to the switch we really just needed a FS and maybe another CB. So again I say we're still better suited in the 4-3 because it eliminates the need for a dominant NT, which will require a high draft pick (think BJ Raji or Suh) or a bigtime FA signing.

Next we can talk about Mike's decisions on QBs. I don't have the energy to keep going over it though lol. Bottom line he's utterly wasted two critical years through 4 terrible moves (Jason, McNabb, Rex, Beck). We don't have a QB of the future or a vet QB to help mentor the guy of the future (please don't mention Rex here). Meanwhile several of the QBs he passed on, both solid vets and draft picks, are doing far better than either goofball on our roster.

Finally, Mike and this coaching staff has lost the team. Last Sunday against a division rival was the only real show of emotion we've seen from more than a couple/few players in months. Shit, the winless Colts play with more passion, as do the Dolphins and Browns.

Add all that to the week to week stupidity in play-calling, roster decisions (like running Torain instead of Helu) and game and clock management. This just isn't a serious franchise. I don't think it's the players. It's the leadership.

[htownskinfan]

Originally Posted by The Goat

I (genuinely) admire the optimism you have for this franchise in its current state! Optimism is a great attitude for life in general...I have it...but I can't for the franchise.

Every major decision Mike, or Mike and/or BA, or Mike and/or BA and/or Kyle, made has set this team further and further back. Why was switching to the 3-4 defense necessary for the future? Is your argument saying only 3-4 defenses are elite? I don't buy that. Regardless, the opportunity cost of blowing up the defense has proven enormous. This fact is corroberated every time someone on the board acknowledges our offense is terrible and terribly deficient of talent i.e. we spend the last two off-seasons spending more than half our picks/FAs on defense.

...and the bottom line is our defense still isn't as good as it was before the switch. I think there's a stong argument to be made we'd still be a better 4-3 defense, especially based on our front 7, because we still don't have the NT required to make the 3-4 dominant. Soooooo we can say Mike and/or whoever decided to force the system w/o the most important piece in place. We can also say it will still require at least a few more major investments in the defense to "finish" it so to speak. NT. FS. CB (maybe two). Prior to the switch we really just needed a FS and maybe another CB. So again I say we're still better suited in the 4-3 because it eliminates the need for a dominant NT, which will require a high draft pick (think BJ Raji or Suh) or a bigtime FA signing.

Next we can talk about Mike's decisions on QBs. I don't have the energy to keep going over it though lol. Bottom line he's utterly wasted two critical years through 4 terrible moves (Jason, McNabb, Rex, Beck). We don't have a QB of the future or a vet QB to help mentor the guy of the future (please don't mention Rex here). Meanwhile several of the QBs he passed on, both solid vets and draft picks, are doing far better than either goofball on our roster.

Finally, Mike and this coaching staff has lost the team. Last Sunday against a division rival was the only real show of emotion we've seen from more than a couple/few players in months. Shit, the winless Colts play with more passion, as do the Dolphins and Browns.

Add all that to the week to week stupidity in play-calling, roster decisions (like running Torain instead of Helu) and game and clock management. This just isn't a serious franchise. I don't think it's the players. It's the leadership.

couldnt agree more with everything said in this post except maybe that he's lost the team,I think thats very hard to determine unless your inside that locker room.Everything else you said is spot on.I know your sposed to let coaches have a 5 year plan but im ready to move on,Im afraid what moves this regime will make next to set us back another couple yrs in the QB situation because it is OBVIOUS they dont know how to judge qbs