Turnaround Time

[Skinzman]

As to the original topic, I dont think there is a clear answer. Harbaugh in San Fran walked into a situation where he had a large talent pool. The players there refused to play for Singletary. There was no turnaround needed player wise. But I do believe that Shanny came into a terrible situation that was started prior to his arrival with Vinny. I never expected to win the first couple of years he was here. It wasnt until year 3 that I thought we at least had a chance, and that was mainly because we finally had a QB.

To many people who jump on Shanny were the same people who said he was stupid for passing on Gabbert and taking Kerrigan. I still think people are prematurely calling RG3 a bust because he is not playing to his potential now. I believe that he can ultimately be a damn good passer in this league.

To the whole DC situation. I would like to ask a few questions. With the whole tackling situation that we are having now. Does a new DC solve those? We are leading the league in yards after missed tackles, doesnt that mean that the players are being put into decent situations and arent getting the job done with tackling? How much can a DC really teach tackling, you either want to or you dont?

Im not sure whats going on with the defense. Maybe a change is in order to see if a new voice gets through to them. Orakpo missed how many tackles in the game last week? He was getting free shots on the RB of detroit and couldnt Bell to the ground. And when I say free shots, I mean from behind when he didnt even see him coming. If the answer is we need new players, how much does the cap penalty come into play on whether we could have accomplished that in the last couple of years?

I think so far that Shanny has done more good than bad. Far from perfect, but most are. He has missed on some draft picks (Leribius) but hit on others (Morris). I still wouldnt mind seeing Allen take over more of the player acquisition aspect and let Shanny do full time coaching. Although Shanny may balk at something like that. If he is left with that option and chooses to leave, so be it. I dont want him fired as of yet, but if he had to make that choice and chose to leave, I wouldnt shed a tear over it.

[BaltimoreSkins]

Originally Posted by Chico23231

Can anyone make an argument that haslett should stay through the bye?

I think he should stay for the sole fact that I don't think anybody can fix the hot mess we have on defense. He doesn't have the ingredients to make this into a top 10 defense and changing DCs insn't going to fix that. If we had the pieces and they weren't buying into the coaching and a change would bring results I would go ahead with a firing, but I don't believe in firing and hiring for lateral chnages o9nly if it will raise the bar. From my perspective we have been on the coaching carousel enough the last decade.

[skinsfaninok]

^ if we shut out oakland sunday

[The Goat]

Sounds about right, total domination by the defense after three lousy showings. Otherwise, you almost have to say Haslett goes on general principle.

[CultBrennan59]

No rebuilding here. Changing maybe the offense at the end of the season? Possibly. Completely changing the defense from a 3-4 to a 4-3? No. Replacing coaches and players come seasons end? Definitely.

As far as this season and turning it around, until we learn to wrap up and bring a player down, we are going to keep losing games. Until Robert stops throwing picks and making stupid plays, like the slide he still hasn't learned as one example. We aren't winning games. Fact of the matter is, our opportunities to win the game were in our offenses hands. But Robert screwed up twice and Aldrick can't hold onto the ball. So until both sides of the ball fixes basic pee wee football mistakes, we are not winning another game. That I am assured of.

[Ruhskins]

I think the cap penalty (which to this day I believe was ridiculously unfair and borderline illegal) and RG3's injury are two things that are hard to overcome. This team would be a lot different had we not gotten screwed by Mara and Goodell. And RG3's injury was a bit of a freak injury.

While I think we are fine on offense (just have to get it together), our defense is in bad shape and the lack of cap space (and now picks) is going to improving this unit a HUGE challenge. We have both green and aging DBs, a question mark at ILB, and a solid front seven that is not good enough to overcome the other deficiencies.

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Couple of quick statements:
- Your point about the average NFL career being 3 yrs. is correct, it's actually a little over 3 1/2 yrs., but keep in mind that's an average. Lots of guys at the lower end cycling on-off rosters so it's a tad skewed. I believe the average career for 1st & 2nd rounders (typical NFL starters) is about 6 yrs.

- The MS regime took over in Jan. 2010. This is year 4 and to your point, outside of a great 7 game stretch at the end of last year, the last three years have left a lot to be desired. On D by Pts Allowed we've ranked 21, 21, and 22nd. This year we're currently 31st. Haslett would be fired immediately after the Raiders game, no matter the outcome, and Raheem Morris put in place as DC.

We've been OK with personnel decisions, some good, some bad.
Good:
- Most of the draft picks in Rds. 1-5 are contributing.
- $ 18M cap penalty sucks, working thru it is a challenge

Not so Good:
- TW isn't playing up to expectations of his draft position, I would've gone with Okung (yes, I know he's had some freak injuries, but he also didn't lose 4 games due to drug suspension)
- The McNabb pick-up was a risk that didn't pan out, we could've had Nate Allen with the #37 pick in 2010.
- Let Rogers get away, 2011 Pro Bowl, resigned 4yr./31M w/SF.
- Gave up on Landry due to injuries, 2012 Pro Bowl $3.5M contract with only $ 700K guaranteed.

- Offensively we have the franchise QB, however this Read Option has stunted his development as a passer. RG3 is plenty capable, he's got arm strength, accuracy, smarts, but the coaching staff his limited him with the RO based offense. The RO was a nice gimmick, but will not be successful long-term and we're already seeing the teams that used it primarily either use it much less or see much less success. (For those who want to argue with me, I'll take Mike Tomlin's opinion and the on-field performance of the 49ers, Skins, Eagles this year to back me up).

Bottom line, this regime has had plenty of time to show improvement and it's not. Time for a change in the off-season.

[redskins5044]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

Couple of quick statements:
- Your point about the average NFL career being 3 yrs. is correct, it's actually a little over 3 1/2 yrs., but keep in mind that's an average. Lots of guys at the lower end cycling on-off rosters so it's a tad skewed. I believe the average career for 1st & 2nd rounders (typical NFL starters) is about 6 yrs.

- The MS regime took over in Jan. 2010. This is year 4 and to your point, outside of a great 7 game stretch at the end of last year, the last three years have left a lot to be desired. On D by Pts Allowed we've ranked 21, 21, and 22nd. This year we're currently 31st. Haslett would be fired immediately after the Raiders game, no matter the outcome, and Raheem Morris put in place as DC.

We've been OK with personnel decisions, some good, some bad.
Good:
- Most of the draft picks in Rds. 1-5 are contributing.
- $ 18M cap penalty sucks, working thru it is a challenge

Not so Good:
- TW isn't playing up to expectations of his draft position, I would've gone with Okung (yes, I know he's had some freak injuries, but he also didn't lose 4 games due to drug suspension)
- The McNabb pick-up was a risk that didn't pan out, we could've had Nate Allen with the #37 pick in 2010.
- Let Rogers get away, 2011 Pro Bowl, resigned 4yr./31M w/SF.
- Gave up on Landry due to injuries, 2012 Pro Bowl $3.5M contract with only $ 700K guaranteed.

- Offensively we have the franchise QB, however this Read Option has stunted his development as a passer. RG3 is plenty capable, he's got arm strength, accuracy, smarts, but the coaching staff his limited him with the RO based offense. The RO was a nice gimmick, but will not be successful long-term and we're already seeing the teams that used it primarily either use it much less or see much less success. (For those who want to argue with me, I'll take Mike Tomlin's opinion and the on-field performance of the 49ers, Skins, Eagles this year to back me up).

Bottom line, this regime has had plenty of time to show improvement and it's not. Time for a change in the off-season.

You can argue TW and McNabb as bad FO decisions. But the Carlos Rogers and Landry moves IMO weren't bad moves, we werent going to pay Rogers what he wanted and he didnt want to be here anymore. He never proved himself here, and Landry was injured too often and when he didnt get offseason surgery they werent going to pay him either. So hindsight is 50/50 lol on those.

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by redskins5044

You can argue TW and McNabb as bad FO decisions. But the Carlos Rogers and Landry moves IMO weren't bad moves, we werent going to pay Rogers what he wanted and he didnt want to be here anymore. He never proved himself here, and Landry was injured too often and when he didnt get offseason surgery they werent going to pay him either. So hindsight is 50/50 lol on those.

The Rogers situation could've possible been resolved if handled differently. I don't have any inside info, but I believe if the Coaching staff and FO had shown him a little more, he would've stayed for a reasonable contract. I would argue that he was a very solid tackling & cover corner, but his hands were the issue.

Landry didn't sign a ridiculous contract with the Jets, we could've worked this one out as well IMHO.

[Chico23231]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

The Rogers situation could've possible been resolved if handled differently. I don't have any inside info, but I believe if the Coaching staff and FO had shown him a little more, he would've stayed for a reasonable contract. I would argue that he was a very solid tackling & cover corner, but his hands were the issue.

Landry didn't sign a ridiculous contract with the Jets, we could've worked this one out as well IMHO.

Shanny and Co have never gotten the secondary straight. Tough to argue otherwise. Ill always be pissed about Rogers...but Landry isnt a great talent, but still better than we got now.

[BaltimoreSkins]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

The Rogers situation could've possible been resolved if handled differently. I don't have any inside info, but I believe if the Coaching staff and FO had shown him a little more, he would've stayed for a reasonable contract. I would argue that he was a very solid tackling & cover corner, but his hands were the issue.

Landry didn't sign a ridiculous contract with the Jets, we could've worked this one out as well IMHO.

If we did resign Rogers who would you not be paying right now? Same for Landry. I would agree Landry right now is an upgrade from what we have at safety but there is no way he signs an incentive laden contract with the Redskins, he signed that because he had no other options.

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by BaltimoreSkins

If we did resign Rogers who would you not be paying right now? Same for Landry. I would agree Landry right now is an upgrade from what we have at safety but there is no way he signs an incentive laden contract with the Redskins, he signed that because he had no other options.

If we resigned Rogers, Hall or Wilson would likely be the nickel and Amerson on the other side of Rogers.

[Ruhskins]

How is Trent Williams a bad FO decision?

[Chief X_Phackter]

Originally Posted by Ruhskins

How is Trent Williams a bad FO decision?

Exactly...he's arguably the best (impact) player on the team right now; and has been one of the best LTs in the game (when he's not injured or serving time for smoking ganja)

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by Ruhskins

How is Trent Williams a bad FO decision?

Didn't say "bad" just "Not so Good". I understand you can debate TW vs. Okung. But what you can't debate is TW had questionable work ethic, which was confirmed by OU staff and in his Bench numbers (23 reps for a top-rated LT ain't good).

Redskins Insider - Trent Williams' potential: an assessment from Oklahoma

If you look at TW today, he still has a "soft" body and that drug suspension shows lack of discipline as well.