Thrash is a Redskin WOW????? (Merged)

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by Ghost

The Philadelphia Inquirer is reporting that the deal won't be final until 4 PM Tuesday because the Redskins need time to clear some cap space to accommodate Thrash. I wonder who's going to be cut ... maybe Larry Moore?

Maybe Trung?

[RedskinPete]

Could be Dave Flore. There real is no hope for him to play again. It will be a med buy out deal now or in June!

[JWsleep]

Well, two things come to mind here.

One: Gardner's days are numbered. Bringing in another receiver and making noises about pying Mcants (and calling him the next Monk!) point to that. The question is what can we get, and how much can we clear on the cap by moving him.

Two: Special teams. Either Gibbs really wants to have two threats, or Morton may be in trouble. What can we get for him, and how much cash can we save? He's pricey, but productive.

Both Gardner and Morton have some value. Maybe we'll package em? And throw in Trotter for good measure? Hmmmm....very interesting.

[RedskinPete]

In the real world trading three cap hits like that for a pick is great for the team pushing them out the door! What teams out there are there that would even look at that deal...players or pick? If you can find it. Make it so!!!!

[Ghost]

Originally Posted by JWsleep

Well, two things come to mind here.

One: Gardner's days are numbered. Bringing in another receiver and making noises about pying Mcants (and calling him the next Monk!) point to that. The question is what can we get, and how much can we clear on the cap by moving him.

Two: Special teams. Either Gibbs really wants to have two threats, or Morton may be in trouble. What can we get for him, and how much cash can we save? He's pricey, but productive.

Both Gardner and Morton have some value. Maybe we'll package em? And throw in Trotter for good measure? Hmmmm....very interesting.

I agree 100%. Maybe Gibbs saw something at minicamp that he felt a need to fix ... perhaps something not right with Chad ... or he could just want depth or Thrash for punts and Chad for KOs. It would be great if we could add a boatload of draft picks as a result of all these moves.

[skins009]

I must once again beg to differ with all you guys. Its is true that gibbs won 3 superbowl rings, but that was coaching. This is something completely different building a team. Which bobby Beathared was a master at. Gibbs is essiantially doing what they did in his first stint. Trying to load up at every position. See mark Brunell, Griffen, Springs, and now Thrash. While they are all good players, we broke the bank for all of them. Severally overpaying for all of them. And while everybody is happy now, just what 2 years, when the cap devil comes. Gibbs doesn't understand the concept of cheap labor. I have no problem with putting a high proyority on special teams, just draft a player to do it. And let me put out another little hint to everybody, when the Skins front office acts completely radical to EVERY other team in the league. its not because they know something nobody else knows. Its because we have a dumb ass owner running the team, who didn't know what he was doing before, and now can't say no to Gibbs.

[Ghost]

Originally Posted by skins009

And let me put out another little hint to everybody, when the Skins front office acts completely radical to EVERY other team in the league. its not because they know something nobody else knows. Its because we have a dumb ass owner running the team, who didn't know what he was doing before, and now can't say no to Gibbs.

I've been hearing about the salary cap ramifications of Snyder's moves since he bought the team. Remember how adding Bruce Smith, Jeff George and Deion were going to ruin the Redskins' cap? Never happened, did it? Snyder is willing to overpay but not all that money is guaranteed and not all of it counts against the cap. We're lucky to have an owner who's willing to spend. Ask the Bengals and some other teams what it's like to have a cheap owner. They'll tell you it sucks. Regardless, this is Joe Gibbs' team now. And I'll go with him everytime, no matter how many of my fellow fans are exasperated by his personnel moves.

And even if you are right and this does turn out to be a fruitless trade, what's the harm? We lose a 5th round pick in 2005. BFD.

[SmootSmack]

I might have missed it but where did it say this was entirely Gibbs' decision?

Regardless, I think it's important to remember that building a team is a marathon, not a sprint. Sometimes you need see the forest for trees...and other cliches and proverbs.

At this moment, I'd agree that trading for Thrash is an unnecessary move. However, all indications are Jacobs looked strong in minicamp, McCants is about to get a new contract it seems (probably indicative of a no. 2 or 3 receiver, and Coles is Coles. So let's say we add Thrash to bolster our special teams and provide a solid veteran on our receiving core to help tutor Taylor who for all intents and purposes is a rookie and McCants who is still very raw.

So the odd man out is Gardner. He's young, he's already been a 1,000 yard receiver. He doesn't have a significant injury history. I think he'll easily get the team a 3rd round pick. And they can get a 4th for Trotter. What has been the biggest beef with the Redskins offseason? That they're mortgaging their future by giving away all their draft picks. But with Gardner and Trotter trades now you've got a 1st, 3rd, 4th, 5th and 6th. Plus you've added Washington, Springs, Portis, Brunell, etc.

Yeah it's a lot of "ifs" and "maybes" but isn't that what makes it fun?

[itvnetop]

i think we'll get at least a fifth round pick for gardner, so that gives us the pick back. plus i think thrash is good value for the fifth round... how soon we forget how productive he can be when he's a number 3 WR.

[skins009]

I'm not saying this particular move is gonna kill us, after all its just a 5th round pick. I just think its clear now that we need a expert running the team, and Gibbs coaching it. I don't think he understands today's nfl from a manangement stand point. Nor should he be expected too, he's a coach.

[Shane]

With a move like this, I agree that Rod Gardner is on the way out. So we line up with Coles, McCants, Jacobs, and Thrash.

Yes, this is a message move about the importance of special teams. It is a move to get a Redskin type of player, and to probably trade a guy in Gardner who may well be a better fit on another team.

This is good solid move by the Redskins. We need Thrash's energy and enthusiasm and fire.

[skins009]

Originally Posted by Ghost

I've been hearing about the salary cap ramifications of Snyder's moves since he bought the team. Remember how adding Bruce Smith, Jeff George and Deion were going to ruin the Redskins' cap? Never happened, did it? Snyder is willing to overpay but not all that money is guaranteed and not all of it counts against the cap. We're lucky to have an owner who's willing to spend. Ask the Bengals and some other teams what it's like to have a cheap owner. They'll tell you it sucks. Regardless, this is Joe Gibbs' team now. And I'll go with him everytime, no matter how many of my fellow fans are exasperated by his personnel moves.

And even if you are right and this does turn out to be a fruitless trade, what's the harm? We lose a 5th round pick in 2005. BFD.

a couple of years ago the skins had the highest dead money charge in the league. Its was direct result of the spending spree you just mentioned, so there was ramifaications. We just didn't feel it that much because our team sucked.

[JWsleep]

Skins 009: We don't know the roster yet, so I'm not sure we can really judge things yet.

As for contracts, only Portis and Brunell got really big ones, and only Brunells is at all suspect, because of his age. Portis could be a very nice deal if he remains anywhere near his production levels. Salaries are only going to go up. Did we really severely overpay for Griffen and Springs? We didn't sign Champ and Kearse, like everyone thought we would.

Thrash is a special teamer and vet reciever. He helps on returns, and maybe makes Gardner expendable (along with the emergence of Jacobs and McCants).

As for St. Bobby, while I appreciated his skill, I think Gibbs often made him look good by making silk purses out of sows' ears. Gibbs gets the best out of his players. Would Spurrier or Norvil have done that?

As for cap hell, well, we'll see. I figure the league will bump up the cap in the next two years. We'll restructure a few deals, drop a few heavy contracts, and go from there. FA actually works both ways. It can be an opportunity to build a team. The Ravens won it. I think the Bucs we're like that too, maybe: the got Christie, etc, on the Oline, BJ as QB, Keyshawn, Gruden. In the end, I think it's coaches over FOs/GMs these days. Bellicheck probably matters more than the draft. Likewise with Gibbs.

But we need a good honest contrarian in our midsts, 009, and you may turn out to be right. Sometimes, the emporer has no clothes.

But not today. He's wearing Burgundy and Gold.

[AnonEmouse]

OK, for those who forgot how good the Bobby and Joe team were, thanks to Bobby's drafting and Gibbs coaching we got to 3 SB's. However, Booby's skill was the draft (and he still made some mistakes). These days the trick is FA, and I'm not sure any GM can assess veteran talent better than veteran coaches.

Depending how we do in this draft, we may need someone in who can pick college kids, but I'll give our coaches the benefit of the doubt for now.

As to this deal, I see it as only a benefit. It gives us immediate depth on the return teams - we now have 2 quality kickoff returners. It also allows us to lose Gardner without worrying about depth. Coles, Jacobs, McCants and Thrash as our 1st 4 receivers isn't a bad combo, especially considering the reports on Jacobs in minicamp.

It also makes me think even more that we are trying to acquire more picks to trade up with. IF the Lions aren't sold on taking Taylor or Winslow (whoever we decide to pick at 5), they may be willing to trade down. In that case we get both and possibly a DL as well. Either that or we trade up to late 1st/early 2nd and get one of the top DL available.

In any case I see a much improved roster and coaching staff next season. I'm not worried about the cap, because whatever people say, every team has had some cap problems and they all seem to work around them.

[Gmanc711]

STUPID MOVE!!! Say what you want, but this guy will be lucky to crack a roster spot, hes not better than coles, gardner or mccants, proboly no bettter than jacobs and hes proboly on the same level as Cliff Russel.