2011 NFL Mock Draft thread.

[Swarley]

to be fair Tyrod had a better completion pct. this year than Jake Lockers best year. Not really saying anything one way or another lol just thought it should be stated.

[skinster]

Originally Posted by diehard

A 5th round project or bust doesn't set a franchise back as much as a 1st or 2nd round does when you have very few picks and too many holes to fill.

How many late round athlete qb's pan out? I can't think of any. Brady, Cassell, Schaub are the only established late round picks I can think of. All are guys with more heart than athletic ability. Also I can't think of any short athletic qb's that pan out. You need height. A project is one thing, a wasted pick is another.

[diehard]

Originally Posted by skinster

How many late round athlete qb's pan out? I can't think of any. Brady, Cassell, Schaub are the only established late round picks I can think of. All are guys with more heart than athletic ability. Also I can't think of any short athletic qb's that pan out. You need height. A project is one thing, a wasted pick is another.

Brees and Vick should come to mind but, my point is this; if the reason the FO is loving Locker's atheleticism and mobility outside of the pocket, why risk a first or second round pick on him? Other than Locker's prototypical height, what projects him to be a better QB at the next level? I'm not starting a lovefest for Taylor, just being sensible. There's a lot of "too short" players in the league that where given a chance who have panned out. I'd put my money on Taylor against Locker competing for the starting job on the same team anyday. Let's see what happens...

[musicmaster45]

My Mock First Round

1 - Newton
2 - Dareus
3 - Miller
4 - Green
5 - Peterson
6 - Quinn
7 - Gabbert
8 - Fairley
9 - Smith
10 - Trade with St. Luis - Jones
11 - Amukamara
12 - Locker
13 - Aldon Smith
14 - Trade - Dalton
15 - Mallet
16 - Kerrigan
17 - Jordan
18 - Watt
19 - Castanzo
20 - Heyward
21 - Taylor
22 - Liuget
23 - Jimmy Smith
24 - Clayborn
25 - Ayers
26 - Trade out of the first, Tennesee Ponder
27 - Wilkerson
28 - Solder
29 - Pouncey
30 - Carimi
31 - Williams
32 - ?

Saw an interesting Mock draft where we trade with New England to pick up the 28th and 33rd picks. I loved it. Its just got put on bleacher report

[Lotus]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

I hope and pray all this QB talk is just that.....TALK.

If we stay at #10 and don't wind up with JJ Watt, Cam Jordan, Von Miller (if he drops like Orakpo) or Quinn I will not be a happy camper.

Now here is a person who makes sense.

[30gut]

Originally Posted by diehard

A 5th round project or bust doesn't set a franchise back as much as a 1st or 2nd round does when you have very few picks and too many holes to fill.

I'm right there with you.

If we don't take a QB in the 1st 2 rounds I would be okay with taking Tyrod or Stanzi in the 5th (but they probably won't be there).

Tyrod is a raw QB that needs some developing and could learn for a season behind Rex/Beck and if he doesn't pan out no harm no foul w/ a 5th round QB prospect.

I bet if Tyrod was taller he would be a much higher rated QB prospect.

I think one thing that Tyrod has going form him in our organization is that Rex Grossman is the same height and he can funtion in this offense.

[30gut]

Originally Posted by skinster

How many late round athlete qb's pan out? I can't think of any. Brady, Cassell, Schaub are the only established late round picks I can think of. All are guys with more heart than athletic ability. Also I can't think of any short athletic qb's that pan out. You need height. A project is one thing, a wasted pick is another.

I'm not sure what 'athlete' has to do with it but off the top of my head here are some:

IIRC Matt Hasselbeck, Mark Brunell, Kyle Orton (who I believe started as rookie 4th round pick), Ryan Fitzpatrick, Marc Bulger, does Colt McCoy count?, David Garrard, Tony Romo (undrafted), Kurt Warner (undrafted), Jake Delohomme (undrafted), Aaron Brooks ?,

[30gut]

Originally Posted by diehard

Brees and Vick should come to mind but, my point is this; if the reason the FO is loving Locker's atheleticism and mobility outside of the pocket, why risk a first or second round pick on him? Other than Locker's prototypical height, what projects him to be a better QB at the next level? I'm not starting a lovefest for Taylor, just being sensible. There's a lot of "too short" players in the league that where given a chance who have panned out. I'd put my money on Taylor against Locker competing for the starting job on the same team anyday. Let's see what happens...

One thing that seperartes Brees from other "short" QBs is that Brees has a very high release point.
His release makes him throw "taller" then his height.

Re:Other than Locker's prototypical height, what projects him to be a better QB at the next level?
Imo?
Elite arm stength, clean/quick release, sturdy frame, spent 2 years in a pro-style offense

[skinster]

Originally Posted by 30gut

I'm not sure what 'athlete' has to do with it but off the top of my head here are some:

IIRC Matt Hasselbeck, Mark Brunell, Kyle Orton (who I believe started as rookie 4th round pick), Ryan Fitzpatrick, Marc Bulger, does Colt McCoy count?, David Garrard, Tony Romo (undrafted), Kurt Warner (undrafted), Jake Delohomme (undrafted), Aaron Brooks ?,

An athlete is a tuck and run guy. A "project" who needs to be developed into a passer.

[30gut]

Originally Posted by skinster

An athlete is a tuck and run guy. A "project" who needs to be developed into a passer.

Plenty of college QB prospects need to be developed into an NFL 'passer'.

Its the way the league works the QB is a developmental position not a 1st year 'impact' position.

Tyrod played in more of a 'pro-style' offense then Newton, Gabbert, Dalton and Kaepernick.

I don't think Tyrod is a 'tuck and run guy' right now he may have been one in the past.

When you watch Tyrod now, you can see him going through his progressions. He runs when he's trying to make a play keeping his eyes downfield and remaining a passer for as long as possible (which is something he didn't always do).

[Swarley]

Taylor attempted 315 passes in 2010. He also threw for 24 touchdowns. Like 30gut said, he can't really be considered a tuck and run guy anymore.

[Landry44]

Originally Posted by 30gut

Stop.
The team was 0-12 2 years ago (Locker on played in 4 games that year) this year they're 7-6 and won a bowl game in their first bowl appearance in 8 years.

When you say he didn't make anyone better you are factually incorrect.

Dude improved the entire football program.

And his leadership is universally praised even by scouts that don't like him.
The fact that you can't even make that concession makes it pretty clear to me that you don't know what you're talking about.


I concede that for his career he was sub .500 but again we're talking about a program that was on the downside when he got there and he brought them 2 back to back above .500 seasons.

He rarely makes big throws? Really?



Accuracy is not the same as completion percentage.
Accuracy is about ball placement.

But, even if you look only at his completion % to arrive at the conclusion that 'his accuracy is terrible' then how do you justify his 70% comp % outside the pocket? He cannot by definition be a net inaccurate passer if he's magically more accurate on the more difficult throws on the move outside the pocket.


His stats have been mediocre I'll agree with that but thankfully the scouting process isn't about looking at stats because stats tell you more about the team then the prospect.

*Even despite the large gap in the quality of the teams that surround them Gabbert the No.1 rated QBs 2010 stats aren't much better then Locker's:

Gabbert: QB Rating:127--63.6 comp %---16 TD---9 Ints----23 sacks
Locker: QB Rating: 124--55.4 comp%----17 TD---9 Ints----19 sacks

But, again its not even about the stats.

You look at the measureables: arm strength, ball placement, release, escapability, experience, ability to execute a pro-style offense, ability to execute 3-5-7 step drops in a rhythm passing offense, etc...

I understand that you might not understand or see why Locker is a top prospect, but lets not pretend that he's not okay?

HTTR!

Jake Locker didn't make anyone around here better because his team sucked. His winning percentage is terrible and his individual numbers wasn't much better. Now you might have some scouts that think he's a good leader. However, I don't judge a guy based on what he does in the huddle or on the sideline. I judge a guy based on what I see on the field. One the field the only thing this guy has led his team too was a lot of losses.

[/QUOTE]Dude improved the entire football program.[/QUOTE] I don't call one winning season changing a program around. Even the season he did have a winning record they were only 7-6. That's not impressive by any stretch of the imagination. If you want to see a guy who turned a program around you need to take a look at Colin Kaepernick. He led his team to a 13-1 season. That's what you call true leadership.

[/QUOTE]The fact that you can't even make that concession makes it pretty clear to me that you don't know what you're talking about.[/QUOTE]

[/QUOTE]I concede that for his career he was sub .500 but again we're talking about a program that was on the downside when he got there and he brought them 2 back to back above .500 seasons.
[/QUOTE] Before you started lecturing me about what's factually incorrect you need to take a look at what you post. Jake Locker went 4-9 his first season, 0-12 his second season, 5-7 his second season, and 7-6 last season. He has never put together back to back winning seasons.

[/QUOTE]He rarely makes big throws? Really?



Accuracy is not the same as completion percentage.
Accuracy is about ball placement.
[/QUOTE] Did you actually watch Jake Locker play or did you just watch his highlights? This guy does not pass the ball well on a consistent basis. In the pocket (where all qbs pass the ball most of the time) he's not accurate. Through out his career you can point to only a couple of games where he actually played the qb position well. Most of the games he's played he misses open receivers or he panics and run when he doesn't have too. His low completion percentage is a direct result of how poorly his passed the football last season. Anyone who has actual watched Locker over the years know what I'm saying is true.


[/QUOTE]I understand that you might not understand or see why Locker is a top prospect, but lets not pretend that he's not okay?[/QUOTE] I understand why some scouts like Jake Locker. But if they really look at him resume they'll see that he's not all that good.

[Swarley]

whoa that is one jumbled post, I think you need to getting the quoting in order. You need a (QUOTE) tag at the beginning of the quote before you can end with a (/Quote) tag

btw in my post I'm using parentheses instead of [] because otherwise it would quote what I wrote in-between.

[Landry44]

To sum it I don't think Jake Locker is a good prospect. I think he has great skills but he just didn't show me anything in college. Now he might actually be pretty once he get into an offense that fit his skill set but I'm not sold on him.

[30gut]

Originally Posted by Landry44

Jake Locker didn't make anyone around here better because his team sucked.His winning percentage is terrible and his individual numbers wasn't much better. Now you might have some scouts that think he's a good leader. However, I don't judge a guy based on what he does in the huddle or on the sideline. I judge a guy based on what I see on the field. One the field the only thing this guy has led his team too was a lot of losses.

That's not even close to logical my friend.

0-12 to 5-7 is huge and improvement, 5-7 to 7-5 is an improvement.

Over 2 years 0-12 to 7-5 and a bowl game victory is a huge improvement.

If you can't see or accept that you're simply being dishonest.

Win % is a team stats but its clear that he helped Washington improve.

I don't call one winning season changing a program around. Even the season he did have a winning record they were only 7-6. That's not impressive by any stretch of the imagination.

Only to you my friend only to you.

If you want to see a guy who turned a program around you need to take a look at Colin Kaepernick. He led his team to a 13-1 season. That's what you call true leadership.

Wait taking an 8-5 team to 13-1 is turning a program around? Really? 2009 7-6

He has never put together back to back winning seasons.

You're correct.

Did you actually watch Jake Locker play or did you just watch his highlights?

Not that it would matter to you but I've watched a bunch of Washington games and have even charted a game (every pass) and its posted somewhere in this forum.

This guy does not pass the ball well on a consistent basis. In the pocket (where all qbs pass the ball most of the time) he's not accurate. Through out his career you can point to only a couple of games where he actually played the qb position well. Most of the games he's played he misses open receivers or he panics and run when he doesn't have too. His low completion percentage is a direct result of how poorly his passed the football last season. Anyone who has actual watched Locker over the years know what I'm saying is true.

If you've watched Washington play have you actually noticed the team the OL? The WRs?

I think you're problem is you have a hard time separating the QB from their team when it comes to evaluation.

I mention the comparison between Locker and Gabbert's stats if Locker's stats are terrible playing for a far worse team what are Gabbert's stats?
-Which btw is moot point because scouting is different from looking at stats.

The idea that Locker isn't accurate at all from the pocket simply isn't true even from scouts that don't like him.

They point to Locker being inconsistent and/or uncomfortable in the pocket.

But, the people teams/scouts that like Locker as prospect likely see a QB that isn't randomly inconsistent or uncomfortable in the pocket but a QB who like any QB is gonna have decreased accuracy and comfort due to the level of pass protection:

I understand why some scouts like Jake Locker.

No, I don't believe you do.